[vladmury]

I have an order on Tesla Model 3 , however my heart has always been towards BMW I had the chance today to test Bmw 330i G20 M sport.

I will make a comparison altough my test drives in both cars have not been more than 20 min each.

Interior: I like Bmw more, the sport seats give better support, headup display is very handy, center console is nice. Doors are very solid and make a nice thump when shutting them. Tesla doors are too light and sound cheap. Bmw cabin is much more quiet at speed( less wind and tire noise) Winner: Bmw

Exterior: Both cars have pluses and minuses, overal I would say tie.

Engine power: Tesla is faster 0-60 mph but 330i is not slow neither (1s slower). Winner: Tesla

Handling: M sport suspension + M diff is sporty enough for me. Tesla is also very similar. Tie

Overall I think 330i M sport is a solid choice and people wont be dissapointed. I am thinking to return the Tesla if I dont like it and order the Bmw.

[mbanck]

I think where Tesla fumbled is the driver supervision. I understand that this is not very popular in here, but Tesla first made it sound like the driver need not pay attention at all (though their legal disclaimers were different of course), but then had to backpedal and now all they have is steering wheel input to make sure the driver is paying attention.

Cruise (the GM company) and now BMW have driver-directed cameras in the dash that can figure out whether the driver pays attention so that continuous or periodic steering wheel input is not required anymore (I think BMW is not using this extensively at this point, but the tech is there). Not sure what Audi does.

[Sportstick]

Model 3 is not an "excellent car". Other than the excellent powertrain, the rest of the vehicle approaches mediocrity. If they improve in the next generation and meet minimum standards, my opinion will be reconsidered.

[openwheelracing]

I'll make sure I make my decision based on all the + and - out there.

I've received plenty of discounts from BMW after 4 in the last 10 years. I never once thought they were "desperate". The recent price "cut" was nothing compared to BMW.

I experienced first hand with terrible Tesla customer service. I was an owner for less than 3 days. I also experienced Tesla making effort trying to get it right. The Model 3 is an excellent car. It's plain obvious. There are also real shortcomings of the Model 3, trust me I know them all.

[vladmury]

Tesla is let down by poor quality of some cars, chaotic delivery process and lack of spares.

Car is not bad and its fun to drive but compared to BMW has some issues ( wind noise, fit and finish).

I think if one is willing to accept the downsides listed above, then Model 3 is a nice car. No reason not to buy it.

I get it this is a BMW forum but lets stay objective.

You say you have been an owner, did you bought the Model 3 or other Tesla? Would like to hear more feedback how you found the car vs BMW and other premium cars

[openwheelracing]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Model 3 is not an "excellent car". Other than the excellent powertrain, the rest of the vehicle approaches mediocrity. If they improve in the next generation and meet minimum standards, my opinion will be reconsidered.

I still disagree about the body in white.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by openwheelracing

I still disagree about the body in white.

..and interior, and electrical architecture, and suspension, and assembly. But, we do have an agreement. If this hasn't already dissuaded you from still considering a Model 3 (the point of this thread!), there is nothing more I can do to be helpful to you. Others may benefit. Good luck.

[openwheelracing]

Originally Posted by vladmury

You say you have been an owner, did you bought the Model 3 or other Tesla? Would like to hear more feedback how you found the car vs BMW and other premium cars

Ynguldyn is actually a better source for impressions. He owns one.

I had the car for 3 days before returned it,.then I had a extended.weekend test drive.

To me it's the perfect commuter car that has traits of the BMW 3 series. RWD, great balace, smooth acceleration, and overall feels like 1st iPhone vs the last Nokia.

Wind noise is roughly the same as F30, maybe a little better. However, the two cars I experienced had different level of noise. Road noise is more of a disappointment compared to F30. However if you pay more attention all the noises are amplified due to the lack of an engine. I can appreciate the ever so slightly electric motor whine. It sounds pretty cool imo. Some say they must have exhaust crackle, well that's why we can have more than one cars.

Interior is spacious and comfortable. Layout makes sense and intuitive. I hated the entire design at launch but I have turned 180. I hate that streamg service and wish they would allow Carplay and Android auto. Seats feels like synthetic nappa leather unlike BMW synthetic Dakota. Entire cabin has soft material, yes lower part of door is soft. It looks sparse but material quality is pretty good. It has Audi's rock solid feel. Nothing squeaks or moves. That steering wheel is heavenly and has good weight to it. Just another EPS but better than F30. Door has good feel for a frameless door. Can't really compared it to F30 which is not. Carpets are low rent quality though.

Exterior looks great to my eyes, and I hated it at launch. Good shoulder lines and sport stance. Shirt hood makes sense with extra interior and cargo room. Well exterior is very subjective so I won't comment anymore. Headlights are excellent way better than the F30. I hated using the phone as key even though it worked Everytime. I like to manually lock and unlock. It's a habit I can't break.

Long freeway drive the car tracks well and relaxing. Best over taking car in real world situation. This part will impress the most. Anyway I might type more later if anyone cares.

[rjmdubois]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

The thing is; if BMW or MB or even Audi comes up with a fully electric model 3 equivelant car, you would have absolutely no reason to buy Tesla. That’s the problem with Tesla...

I beg to differ. BMW doesn’t have anything close to Tesla. They are lagging behind all direct competitors in the largest change in the automotive industry since Henry Ford’s assembly line.

Competitor’s products already available or about to be:

MB: EQC
Audi: e-tron
Jaguar: I-Pace
Polestar: Polestar 2

Against this, BMW has computer generated images of iNEXT.

BMW made a bad technology bet with i3/i8, and now is paying the price. I am a huge fan of theirs, and I sincerely hope they close this gap.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by rjmdubois

I beg to differ. BMW doesn’t have anything close to Tesla. They are lagging behind all direct competitors in the largest change in the automotive industry since Henry Ford’s assembly line.

...

Against this, BMW has computer generated images of iNEXT.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...-electric-car/
https://www.topspeed.com/cars/bmw/20...-ar180707.html

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by rjmdubois

Against this, BMW has computer generated images of iNEXT.

You are thoroughly under-informed. BMW has both the iX3 and i4 in development and both will come to market before the I20 "iNEXT". And that I20, BTW, has also reached prototype form, with test mules out and about. It is not merely "computer generated images".

https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1489615
https://bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1576904
https://bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1580464

Furthermore, the post you replied to said "if BMW...". There is some truth to what he suggests - a feature-for-feature competitor to the Model 3 from traditional automakers that benefited from their wealth of experience, resulting in a higher quality product would probably mean trouble for Tesla.

However, that "if" is a big "if", and as I covered in my reply to him, it is not such as easy trick to pull off. It's an uphill battle that is going to keep the existing players busy for years to come.

[openwheelracing]

It appears Tesla is several years ahead of the game as far as efficiency which is directly related to power and range.

I am willing to bet a Grand Coupe i4 will be limited production, priced higher than M440i, lack incentives with dealer markup for the first few months. Possibly the kidney grill will resemble a Kia similar to iX3. I can only imagine how big of a Frunk a RWD i4 will have.

[cfm56d7b]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Model 3 is not an "excellent car". Other than the excellent powertrain, the rest of the vehicle approaches mediocrity. If they improve in the next generation and meet minimum standards, my opinion will be reconsidered.

Very well said with little to add other than Twitter rhetoric is not thoughtful engineering.

[ecaedus]

everyone's got different "minimum standards" and everyone are willing to compromise on different things. at the end of the day, i think the mere fact that a BEV sedan has garnered up this much attention thruout the car industry is a testament to the success of this car and the company behind it. not so long ago, nobody would mention any EV in the same sentence as a 3 series.

for anyone slightly curious about EVs in general i'd say do yourself a favor and at least take a test drive. if you are willing to compromise on the subpar interior(no way it's worth the price they are asking), don't live in a harsh winter climate (frozen door handle, mud trapped under bumper) and don't mind the company being ran by an egomaniac(the guy's a genius but also an a**hole), you'll find the model 3 propose a very convincing and competitive alternative to any similarly priced entry sedans on the market.

[wknddrivr]

Originally Posted by ecaedus

for anyone slightly curious about EVs in general i'd say do yourself a favor and at least take a test drive. if you are willing to compromise on the subpar interior(no way it's worth the price they are asking), don't live in a harsh winter climate (frozen door handle, mud trapped under bumper) and don't mind the company being ran by an egomaniac(the guy's a genius but also an a**hole), you'll find the model 3 propose a very convincing and competitive alternative to any similarly priced entry sedans on the market.

It’s kind of hard to take a test drive when they are closing many of their stores and the only way to test drive it is to buy the car and return it if you don’t like it

[openwheelracing]

You can call and arrange in home test drive. With Tesla everything is outside the box since they are conducting business more like a tech company than a traditional dealership Enterprise.

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by openwheelracing

You can call and arrange in home test drive. With Tesla everything is outside the box since they are conducting business more like a tech company than a traditional dealership Enterprise.

Let's see how long that's going to last...

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by ssquared

It’s kind of hard to take a test drive when they are closing many of their stores and the only way to test drive it is to buy the car and return it if you don’t like it

Pretty much all the stores they haven't closed are going to stay open now.

Also, you can always arrange for a test drive with someone on model3ownersclub.com. Hell, if anyone's in Boston - just PM me.

[ynguldyn]

SCCA Solo Tour first day results:

[vladmury]

Would you recommend the Performance over LR AWD?

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by vladmury

Would you recommend the Performance over LR AWD?

It depends on what you want. LR AWD is enough for probably 95% of the people thinking about Model 3. My wife drives a 135i - the Tesla has better performance. A friend drives a C6 Z06 - he is also mightily impressed with the car. All three of us have a lot of autocross experience (I'm too lazy now, but my wife and the friend compete in the Nationals), so we know a little about what makes a car good, and neither of us has said "I need more power than this". Of course we would appreciate it, but in daily driving it's pretty much irrelevant.

The only thing I miss is Track Mode - I want to take the car to a couple of events but, by default, the computer is too intrusive and doesn't let the car show its full abilities in competitive driving. The Performance version would make sense if you plan to do this kind of thing. And of course there's this category of people who buy BMW M3s just to show off - red Brembos on the Performance are an absolutely necessary attribute if you're one of those.

[vladmury]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

It depends on what you want. LR AWD is enough for probably 95% of the people thinking about Model 3. My wife drives a 135i - the Tesla has better performance. A friend drives a C6 Z06 - he is also mightily impressed with the car. All three of us have a lot of autocross experience (I'm too lazy now, but my wife and the friend compete in the Nationals), so we know a little about what makes a car good, and neither of us has said "I need more power than this". Of course we would appreciate it, but in daily driving it's pretty much irrelevant.

The only thing I miss is Track Mode - I want to take the car to a couple of events but, by default, the computer is too intrusive and doesn't let the car show its full abilities in competitive driving. The Performance version would make sense if you plan to do this kind of thing. And of course there's this category of people who buy BMW M3s just to show off - red Brembos on the Performance are an absolutely necessary attribute if you're one of those.

I dont go to the track, so I guess LR AWD will be enough. BTW how do you find cabin noise compared to Bmw?