Bimmerpost
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G80 M3 / G82 M4 Forum (2019+) BMW M Head of Development on the new BMW M3 and BMW M4. (G80, G82. 2020)

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-29-2020, 09:24 AM   #265
reyoasian
Private First Class
Canada
68
Rep
124
Posts

Drives: 340xi MPPSK
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jstein55 View Post
I know, that's why I said its a bit sad the amount of people that prioritize 0-60 above all else. Electric cars only made things worse, everyone is chasing power instead of feedback and engagement. When I see posts about people claiming 4 second cars to be slow it just sounds so ridiculous.
Unfortunately majority of the people are like that.
It's become a thing where people compare paper stats to see who can piss farther.
Hard parking at car meets boasting about "I got 500hp, 0-60 in 3.5s, 1/4 mile in 10.7".
But in reality only doing straight line launch controls from stoplight to stoplight buying groceries.
Appreciate 1
jstein555171.00

      07-29-2020, 10:19 AM   #266
kyrix1st
Major
kyrix1st's Avatar
Japan
948
Rep
1,156
Posts

Drives: E36 M3 Euro, E36/7, E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Kyoto

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2004 BMW Z4  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Law View Post
Still, despite the sad reality that the coveted M is no longer as uniquely niche, special, or connected to motorsport as before, in almost all categories, I would still take the equivalent M Car over its AMG, quattro (RS), F, or V equivalent.

I, for one, applaud BMW M for continuing to offer the manual transmission, even as its adoption rate is fading into single digits.
One reason why MT is in single digit sales is that regional BMW HQs refuse to certify 6MT. Japan is probably the only country that still gets F8x 6MTs in Asia.

That is why I think it was even more important to have DCT in these cars, because it is a statement to the whole world that their motorsport inspired driving experience is what differentiates the brand from the rest.
__________________
Pass me if you can.
Appreciate 2
CanAutM311794.00

      07-29-2020, 10:17 PM   #267
///M TOWN
.
///M TOWN's Avatar
3349
Rep
3,225
Posts

Drives: M GmbH
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: North America

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by xlover View Post
Alot of hate for this engineer, who clearly is not practiced on camera, just trying to give fans another tidbit, another look at the car in motion, before the reveal....
Agreed

Not an easy task regardless
Appreciate 3
duky845.50
JTO242707.50
JustChris10868.00

      07-30-2020, 10:02 AM   #268
Cortexiphan
Captain
Cortexiphan's Avatar
United_States
821
Rep
684
Posts

Drives: 18' BMW 540i MSport
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Boston, MA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 19x View Post
At least we know where BMW is headed... nowhere.
Whatís about this video that makes you think ďBMW is headed nowhereĒ ?
__________________
E93 330i ///Msport
E70 3.0si
E92 ///M3

F82 ///M4
G30 540i ///Msport
Appreciate 0
      07-30-2020, 11:06 AM   #269
Nordkeyz73
Lieutenant
Nordkeyz73's Avatar
United_States
132
Rep
548
Posts

Drives: BMW e90 328i ZSP
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: CT

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Law View Post
Still, despite the sad reality that the coveted M is no longer as uniquely niche, special, or connected to motorsport as before, in almost all categories, I would still take the equivalent M Car over its AMG, quattro (RS), F, or V equivalent.

I, for one, applaud BMW M for continuing to offer the manual transmission, even as its adoption rate is fading into single digits.
One reason why MT is in single digit sales is that regional BMW HQs refuse to certify 6MT. Japan is probably the only country that still gets F8x 6MTs in Asia.

That is why I think it was even more important to have DCT in these cars, because it is a statement to the whole world that their motorsport inspired driving experience is what differentiates the brand from the rest.
I'm almost thinking for the next M3/M4 CS or CSL, they'll switch to an 8 or 9 speed dual clutch to further differentiate those top models and by doing so, justify their enormous price tag.
__________________
BMW Performance SSK, BMW Performance Blackline Tails, BMW Performance Exhaust, BMW 3-Stage Intake Manifold, AA Stage 3 Tune, AA Headers, Weisslicht LED Halos, Black Kidneys...other small stuff
Appreciate 0
      07-30-2020, 11:10 AM   #270
frankiebones
Captain
frankiebones's Avatar
942
Rep
939
Posts

Drives: M3 CS
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Long Island, NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wayman519 View Post
These forums use to be all of us awing at the car and bragging about how it is so much better than, mercedes, audi, porsche, infinity, Cadillac , lexus etc. Now its just people saying come on give this car a chance. We are on these forums because we loved BMWs from before we could drive. We have lived through 2 BMW generations before we could drive, and maybe another before justifying paying for one or more. We know these cars even though we have not owned them all. We wanted most of them until now. Paul Rosche is gone, Biermann left, BMW have no F1 team. Might be time to look elsewhere for a proper driving experience.
I'm sorry and I hate to be "that guy," but have you driven the current generation M3/M4 compared to BMW's competitors? Have you tracked an F8x Competition against even a 911 Carrera S and been impressed? Have you driven the next generation and are you qualified to discuss the driving experience?

You're just pissed off about the grilles like every other person who's crying over a car yet-to-be-revealed.
__________________
M3 CS with M Perf Exhaust
Retired - Yas F80 - 6MT - Hex Stage 1 - MPHAS
Appreciate 5
      07-30-2020, 11:19 AM   #271
wayman519
Second Lieutenant
Canada
54
Rep
220
Posts

Drives: E82 N52 6MT A51
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
I'm sorry and I hate to be "that guy," but have you driven the current generation M3/M4 compared to BMW's competitors? Have you tracked an F8x Competition against even a 911 Carrera S and been impressed? Have you driven the next generation and are you qualified to discuss the driving experience?

You're just pissed off about the grilles like every other person who's crying over a car yet-to-be-revealed.
I am crying and I won't deny that. But don't pretend everything is ok. Somebody has to speak up otherwise autonomous cars is all we will have left.
Appreciate 0
      07-30-2020, 11:33 AM   #272
mkoesel
Moderator
United_States
6052
Rep
18,701
Posts

Drives: No BMW for now
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canton, MI

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wayman519 View Post
I am crying and I won't deny that. But don't pretend everything is ok. Somebody has to speak up
Enthusiasts spoke, primarily with their wallets, and BMW heard you loud and clear. That's why they are still building high performance RWD vehicles with available manual transmissions in 2021 and onward until at least the end of the decade.

Sometimes the answer is pausing to take inventory of the exceptional things we have access to, and even if just for a moment, weighing that against whatever complaints (however valid) still remain.

Quote:
otherwise autonomous cars is all we will have left.
Some version of that reality is coming either way. But, there will still be vehicles for those who want to drive.
Appreciate 2
JTO242707.50
JustChris10868.00

      07-30-2020, 12:56 PM   #273
frankiebones
Captain
frankiebones's Avatar
942
Rep
939
Posts

Drives: M3 CS
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Long Island, NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wayman519 View Post
I am crying and I won't deny that. But don't pretend everything is ok. Somebody has to speak up otherwise autonomous cars is all we will have left.
I absolutely love the new grilles FYI lol.
__________________
M3 CS with M Perf Exhaust
Retired - Yas F80 - 6MT - Hex Stage 1 - MPHAS
Appreciate 2
JTO242707.50

      07-30-2020, 01:48 PM   #274
solstice
Brigadier General
2289
Rep
4,994
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Enthusiasts spoke, primarily with their wallets, and BMW heard you loud and clear. That's why they are still building high performance RWD vehicles with available manual transmissions in 2021 and onward until at least the end of the decade.

Sometimes the answer is pausing to take inventory of the exceptional things we have access to, and even if just for a moment, weighing that against whatever complaints (however valid) still remain.



Some version of that reality is coming either way. But, there will still be vehicles for those who want to drive.
Well said and case in point, what we know the standard G8X will only be available with RWD and MT. Just like the E30 M3 and unlike any competitor and any super/hyper car I can think of. People should pause and think about that for a moment before lambasting the M division for not having any real car guys left.
Appreciate 1
JustChris10868.00

      07-30-2020, 01:50 PM   #275
wayman519
Second Lieutenant
Canada
54
Rep
220
Posts

Drives: E82 N52 6MT A51
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankiebones View Post
I absolutely love the new grilles FYI lol.
Nice lol, I know these cars need serious cooling so there is a benefit! But do find it hard to let go of the F80 and F90 face. Interior design looks good!
Appreciate 1
CityLife159.50

      08-01-2020, 02:05 AM   #276
scoale
First Lieutenant
186
Rep
355
Posts

Drives: M3 /e60 535 MS/981 BS
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: North Carolina

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2016 BMW M3  [0.00]
2018 BMW 540  [0.00]
2013 Porsche Boxster S  [0.00]
2013 BMW M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Not sure what there is to complain about? This a video that pre-views the track improvements. The head of M development confirms that the car is significantly more powerful, stable and capable of higher lateral acceleration. Music to the ears of anyone looking for a faster track car. Tell any racing driver this including F1 drivers and they will be over the moon.
99% of BMW drivers are not really looking for a track car and 99% of people looking for a track car are not looking to buy a brand new BMW.
Appreciate 2
JustChris10868.00

      08-01-2020, 02:11 AM   #277
scoale
First Lieutenant
186
Rep
355
Posts

Drives: M3 /e60 535 MS/981 BS
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: North Carolina

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2016 BMW M3  [0.00]
2018 BMW 540  [0.00]
2013 Porsche Boxster S  [0.00]
2013 BMW M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Automotive Enthusiast View Post
I understand the physics aspect but the point I was trying to make was that you'll never get anywhere near the limits of the car on your favorite backroad to get any enough weight transfer for it to remotely matter. Backroads are not able to exploit any of the disadvantages of the weight of the car.

I actually didn't know that about the Panamera. Thank you for sharing that with me.
Maybe...you certainly feel the size of the car though. Length and width matter - particularly driving good mountain roads, etc.
Appreciate 0
      08-01-2020, 02:17 AM   #278
scoale
First Lieutenant
186
Rep
355
Posts

Drives: M3 /e60 535 MS/981 BS
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: North Carolina

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2016 BMW M3  [0.00]
2018 BMW 540  [0.00]
2013 Porsche Boxster S  [0.00]
2013 BMW M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstein55 View Post
Honestly, the M2 is essentially the new M3 and is having its E39 moment right now, while the M3's nameplate is iconic, I have a feeling the M2 will be favored more so over the M3 as time goes by and the cars grow in size and lose more feedback. Its clear that while it may not sell in as large numbers, its the halo car of the brand, and the best current definition of "the ultimate driving machine."
Agree. Many here want the M3 to be what the M2 for the most part is. And if you ask why not the M2 they will point to things they like about the M3 that have little to do with performance.
Appreciate 1
jstein555171.00

      08-01-2020, 01:17 PM   #279
solstice
Brigadier General
2289
Rep
4,994
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by scoale View Post
99% of BMW drivers are not really looking for a track car and 99% of people looking for a track car are not looking to buy a brand new BMW.
The same attributes that make it a good track car are what makes it special in spirited driving elsewhere. Itís a large part of what make the M3 more enjoyable than the competing cars from Benz and Audi and why many professional reviewers prefer the Alfa over those two on and off the track.

There are many car types with special abilities as off-road prowess that are being bought for capabilities far exceeding what they are used for but when you use some of it whether itís while being snowed in, during a flooding or just having fun on a beach or forest road you enjoy it more than cars that are less capable so the fans of them are very interested in reviews showing improvements in these areas and the cars with the best abilities will be favorites just as the M3 is a favorite among daily cars with track capabilities.
Appreciate 1
kyrix1st947.50

      08-01-2020, 02:04 PM   #280
FormulaMMM
Colonel
FormulaMMM's Avatar
United_States
882
Rep
2,362
Posts

Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Midwest

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
The same attributes that make it a good track car are what makes it special in spirited driving elsewhere. Itís a large part of what make the M3 more enjoyable than the competing cars from Benz and Audi and why many professional reviewers prefer the Alfa over those two on and off the track.

There are many car types with special abilities as off-road prowess that are being bought for capabilities far exceeding what they are used for but when you use some of it whether itís while being snowed in, during a flooding or just having fun on a beach or forest road you enjoy it more than cars that are less capable so the fans of them are very interested in reviews showing improvements in these areas and the cars with the best abilities will be favorites just as the M3 is a favorite among daily cars with track capabilities.
Think this is true, performance development on race tracks has always served M well.

But as performance limitations are increased that can be at the expense of day to day interactivity. The performance ceiling becomes so high that it's essentially inaccessible on-road. New M5 suffers from this effect, imo. Seems like it's bored, pretty much always.

Particularly interested to see if the G8X is engaging well under the performance limit. That might be their biggest challenge.

Haven't driven a Giulia, but my understanding is that much of the fanfare has to do with its consistent engagement factor -- quick steering, engine presence, etc.
__________________
DCT E90 M3 (stock), M4 GTS, Camaro Z/28. Past: Akrapovic Evolution, KW Clubsport, Stoptech ST-40 + Pagid RS29 | Apex EC-7 18x10 ET25 + Nitto NT01 275 35 18, Velos Designwerks Tune, Megan Racing Catback, Macht Schnell Filter
Appreciate 2
solstice2288.50

      08-01-2020, 02:27 PM   #281
jstein55
Brigadier General
jstein55's Avatar
United_States
5171
Rep
3,129
Posts

Drives: Mercedes-Benz/BMW
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Baltimore, MD

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Haven't driven a Giulia, but my understanding is that much of the fanfare has to do with its consistent engagement factor -- quick steering, engine presence, etc.
My biggest mistake was driving the Giulia... I fell in love Okay, not really but that car was so good it almost ruined any other car for me, even the 4-cylinder variant drives exceptionally well.
__________________
Daily: 2019 Mercedes-Benz CLS 53 Weekend: 2008 BMW Z4 M Wife's: 2020 Mercedes-Benz GLC 300 Son's: 2005 BMW X3 3.0i
Retired:1995 E36 325i 5MT / 2004 E46 330i 6MT / 2011 E90 335xi / 2017 G30 540i / 2017 982 Boxster S 6MT / 2019 F87 M2C 6MT
Appreciate 1
      08-01-2020, 02:47 PM   #282
solstice
Brigadier General
2289
Rep
4,994
Posts

Drives: 2015 M3 6MT
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Think this is true, performance development on race tracks has always served M well.

But as performance limitations are increased that can be at the expense of day to day interactivity. The performance ceiling becomes so high that it's essentially inaccessible on-road. New M5 suffers from this effect, imo. Seems like it's bored, pretty much always.

Particularly interested to see if the G8X is engaging well under the performance limit. That might be their biggest challenge.

Haven't driven a Giulia, but my understanding is that much of the fanfare has to do with its consistent engagement factor -- quick steering, engine presence, etc.
True about the M5 but it’s never really had ambitions to be a weekend track car. I’m optimistic that BMW want this differentiation to remain for the M3 not to render the M5 obsolete. I.e. the M5 will remain the more luxurious executive autobahn missile it’s always been and the M3 will remain the more communicative track friendly car. There certainly isn’t anything in this video that says differently.
Appreciate 1
      08-01-2020, 04:52 PM   #283
FormulaMMM
Colonel
FormulaMMM's Avatar
United_States
882
Rep
2,362
Posts

Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Midwest

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
True about the M5 but itís never really had ambitions to be a weekend track car. Iím optimistic that BMW want this differentiation to remain for the M3 not to render the M5 obsolete. I.e. the M5 will remain the more luxurious executive autobahn missile itís always been and the M3 will remain the more communicative track friendly car. There certainly isnít anything in this video that says differently.
Agreed. Hoping they aim for a major differentiation in engagement factor. Don't need a mini M5, objectively capable as it might be.
__________________
DCT E90 M3 (stock), M4 GTS, Camaro Z/28. Past: Akrapovic Evolution, KW Clubsport, Stoptech ST-40 + Pagid RS29 | Apex EC-7 18x10 ET25 + Nitto NT01 275 35 18, Velos Designwerks Tune, Megan Racing Catback, Macht Schnell Filter
Appreciate 1
solstice2288.50

      08-01-2020, 04:56 PM   #284
brad850csi
Lieutenant Colonel
763
Rep
1,842
Posts

Drives: 16 F13 M6 Comp
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by secretariat View Post
A couple of things to take away from reading this entire thread
1) BMW M division is intentionally moving driver's away from a manual transmission by lowering the horsepower available on the G80 compared to the Automatics
I'm going to suggest the reduction in power in the 6MT models is because at higher speeds the 8AT and AWD will lose quite a bit more power through the drivetrain than the 6MT RWD, we'll find out once people get them on the dyno. I suspect the wheel figures will be very similar.
__________________
SCOTT26 "So as an admirer of the M5 and a potential customer of an M5 Touring. I would run naked around the streets of Garching if they were to offer one."
Appreciate 0
      08-01-2020, 04:59 PM   #285
brad850csi
Lieutenant Colonel
763
Rep
1,842
Posts

Drives: 16 F13 M6 Comp
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by petrolhead. View Post
3. better / longer lasting brakes on the front (cooling?) without the need to resort to carbon ceramics
We're getting 6 piston on the front with steel brakes. That will provide larger front pads
__________________
SCOTT26 "So as an admirer of the M5 and a potential customer of an M5 Touring. I would run naked around the streets of Garching if they were to offer one."
Appreciate 0
      Yesterday, 09:41 AM   #286
alrock'M
Cruising
alrock'M's Avatar
United_States
5
Rep
17
Posts

Drives: Sold - F30 335i 6MT
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Baltimore Area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colinv6 View Post
Well... that was a waste of 4:30 of my life.
__________________
2013 335i, 6mt, pwg
Active-8
AFE Intake
Challenge HFC DP
...
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:51 AM.




g20
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST