[Jason]

Interesting article out of Jalopnik today:

In response to Toyota's unintended acceleration debacle, BMW engineers decided to calculate the equivalent horsepower of a 3-series' brakes: roughly 2,500 HP. That's right, every 3-Series ships with more than twice the power of a Bugatti Veyron.

The engineers arrived at the 2,500 HP number after measuring the car's 60-0 MPH deceleration time (2.5 seconds), then calculating how much horsepower would be required to achieved equivalent acceleration (0-60 MPH in 2.5 seconds). This is obviously an over-simplified number that exists merely in the calculations on an engineer's note pad - the rear-wheel drive 3-series would need extensive modifications to transfer that accelerative power then send it to the ground - but it does demonstrate exactly how much more powerful the brakes are over the engine, which, in the case of this Bimmer, makes between 200 and 300 HP.

What's this mean for unintended acceleration? Even if you couldn't shift the car into neutral, even if the throttle was stuck wide open, even if you couldn't turn the engine off, you could still stop the car by using the brakes, which can easily overpower the engine.

.... rest of article at JALOPNIK

[Saigon]

wow very interesting, nice find!

[kinan_sleiman2006]

very interesing topic?do you think that theses brakes produce more hp to the engine than 5 series f10?

[sworks335i]

This is my point exactly!! Toyota is in a bad place with not telling the gov. but then having stupid drivers who can't drive or stop their cars making up stories and lies about how their cars go out of control.

16.4 Million dollar fine is going to help out the government though!!

[GUNN IT]

Very interesting... never thought about braking HP.

[03BeastCharmer]

I think saying that Toyata drivers should just bake is an over simplified statement, as econo box cars generally don't have great tires, so only a limited amount of brake force can be applied before the tire gives up, and if the engine is still running, you have to overcome all that force just to maintain the same speed, let alone slow the car down. And you would probably very quickly cook the brake pads in a Toyota, making them useless.

That's why the key is to get the car into neutral first.

[F30Toad]

Originally Posted by sworks335i

16.4 Million dollar fine is going to help out the government though!!

Yeah, lots of help:
$1,560,000,000,000 (deficit) - 16,400,000 (fine) = 95,122 more toyota fines to go and the deficit is gone.

As for the tread, it seems that stomping on the brakes, even in a toyota, should bring the car to a stop fairly quickly. The strength of the brakes as compared to the max horsepower in the Prius, Camry Hybrid, etc. shouldn't be that much different. Each number might be lower but the ratio is probably similar even if not totally equal. The only way it seems it would not work is if the car's computer is not allowing the calipers to activate because it is using the regenerative braking or some other nonsense. It seems that in any car, if you have time to react to the acceleration and react correctly, the car should mechanically be able to stop.

[jaybird124]

I'm curious how much HP they have with no vacuum assist, which is what will happen at WOT.

[jaybird124]

Originally Posted by E90Toad

Yeah, lots of help:
$1,560,000,000,000 (deficit) - 16,400,000 (fine) = 95,122 more toyota fines to go and the deficit is gone.

As for the tread, it seems that stomping on the brakes, even in a toyota, should bring the car to a stop fairly quickly. The strength of the brakes as compared to the max horsepower in the Prius, Camry Hybrid, etc. shouldn't be that much different. Each number might be lower but the ratio is probably similar even if not totally equal. The only way it seems it would not work is if the car's computer is not allowing the calipers to activate because it is using the regenerative braking or some other nonsense. It seems that in any car, if you have time to react to the acceleration and react correctly, the car should mechanically be able to stop.

That's the point that needs to be taken into consideration. The problem has been you don't have vacuum assist at WOT (on any car). Then on top of that the Toyota's were having brake fade (which could happen on a 3, especially given the mighty M3's reputation for fade on the track). It's the comedy of errors that's producing the problems.

[M3_CSL_E92]

"but it does demonstrate exactly how much more powerful the brakes are over the engine,"

Not really, because when you accelerate, mother nature works against you.
So when braking, she´s actually "helping" you.

[Ash83]

[sworks335i]

Originally Posted by E90Toad

Yeah, lots of help:
$1,560,000,000,000 (deficit) - 16,400,000 (fine) = 95,122 more toyota fines to go and the deficit is gone.

Agreed! But every little bit helps! Less I have to shell out to them!

If we could get the stupid politicians out of there and put a real businessman in office maybe things would be different. Politicians care too much about making everyone happy and not looking at the bottom line. i know i know, for another thread

Bottom line is that Yota should have admitted something was wrong sooner and came up with a fix instead of trying to hide it. I still think the stories in the news or BS though and don't really add up. Like the one guy who called the cops and then they could never see where he really pressed the brakes all the way down and stuff. People will do anything these days!

[Oulixes]

Originally Posted by sworks335i

Toyota is in a bad place with ... having stupid drivers.
...

Every company has drivers they deserve, even BMW.

[cotmfk]

Nice find. 2500 hp would be crazy!!!

[Solonng]

how can you prevent stupid people from themselves? look at the jackasses that elect the sob in office.

[tgxmike]

Picked up one of the car magazines (I forget which one as I did not buy it) this week. The preformed a WOT braking test.... and 1/2 of the cars in there test will release the throttle automatically if both the brake and gas are pressed simultaneously. Meaning even if the pedal (or some internal part) is stuck at WOT the car will automatically cut the throttle when you apply the brakes.

Cars that don’t have this feature typically had ~20-40ft longer stopping distances… so not a big problem unless you panic.

Also the family sedans they tested had 500ish Braking horsepower.... so go BMW!!

[Oulixes]

This is an interesting calculation, quite simple, too. It confirms the results of the tests number of people have done on tracks. Thanks for posting it and more power to Jalopnik.

[CarForHire]

This is a great read.

[BrokenVert]

Fun test...now lets see somebody do this test with the 6pot on the 135

[mr_nelson]

excuse me if my question is dumb, but if your car accelerates out of control, cant you put the stick on neutral or put the automatic gear on N before braking???
just asking.. I dont know about that toyota story

[E90 Skye]

thats pretty cool actually...

[Jack28]

Interesting Read...