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Technical Topics B48 4-Cylinder Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications [B46] [G20] Bootmod3 Stage 2 First Impressions

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      04-06-2020, 06:14 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g20beam View Post
Let's clear up the confusion.

B46 and B48 difference is B46 has SULEV parts. Super Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle. Pretty sure those differences are made to match emissions laws in California. Anyhow, the layout of the B46 and B48 are the same, so is the engineering. The B48 has the same quality components as B58, at least the new TU engines are the same. The 190kW version of B46/B48 uses same quality materials for crankshaft, pistons, block and head as the 285kW B58. The compression ratios are all 11:1. Same with cylinder bore and stroke. The B46/B48 is, in essence, the B58 with two less cylinders, this all is fact.

SULEV or no SULEV, all these are, are more expensive parts. Doesn't affect reliability or power output as far as I'm aware. If a component such as pistons, crankshaft or any of above mentioned components fail in the B46, it will have the same chance of failure in a B48 or B58, if the B58 was pushed to the same stress extent as the B46/48 is.
Sorry matey, you are possibly wrong on many things. To start with look at the picture below, different compressions between the 46 and 48 and both are neither 11:1 as you claim the M340i is. There is much nuance between car models. I know we all want our 330i’s to be exactly the same as the M340i’s engine, just a little smaller, but this may not be the case.
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      04-06-2020, 06:40 AM   #46
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The B48 in the G20 330 has identical output and specs to the B46 330. The differences are external, the downpipe is different with a different catalyst to meet SULEV. The version in the X2 M35i is different and is more highly tuned with upgraded internals. You're comparing apples to oranges.

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This engine features a reinforced crankshaft with larger main bearings and new pistons with a lower 9.5:1 compression ratio. This allows the engine to take more boost pressure from a larger turbocharger, which blows compressed air through a reworked intake tract.[12] Revealed in May 2019, this engine is shared with the new MINI Countryman,Clubman JCW and MINI JCW GP models. Increasing from previous outputs by as much as 55kw/75hp and 100Nm to 450Nm.[13]

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      04-06-2020, 09:30 AM   #47
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G20 330i and M340i do have the same compression it seems, 10.2:1 though, not 11:1.

I am still not sure how the internals match up in both the engine and transmission between the 330i and the M340i. Also, wonder much programming differences between the two for the transmission could make a difference. As an example (not saying this is true), if the internals were the same, they could program the 330i to shift quicker than the M340i because perhaps the same shift speed could cause damage / wear to the gear box at the much higher torque level on the M340i. I just made that up, but in theory, there could be margins of safety differences via software and of course there can be actual different internal components. It's fun to speculate but I would love some real answers, just not sure how you would go about getting them.
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      04-06-2020, 09:53 AM   #48
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Since the HP of the B58 is exactly 150% of the B48/B46 I would argue that the B58 is a B48/B46 with 2 more cylinders. TQ in the B58 is limited to 500 Nm through the ECU software as that is the limit for the ZF 8HP50. I don't think the shift speeds are played with. A tuned, even stage 2, 330i is well within the TQ limits of the transmission. A tuned M340i is going to be way over. Wonder why BMW didn't put the ZF 8HP70 in the M340i.
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      04-06-2020, 12:14 PM   #49
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Got some more info from HCP about the new OTS Maps. 91/95 oct is somwhere in the 285-290whp region.
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      04-06-2020, 04:08 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor2010 View Post
Sorry matey, you are possibly wrong on many things. To start with look at the picture below, different compressions between the 46 and 48 and both are neither 11:1 as you claim the M340i is. There is much nuance between car models. I know we all want our 330i’s to be exactly the same as the M340i’s engine, just a little smaller, but this may not be the case.
BMW is partly to blame for all this confusion

The B48 engine mentioned in the attachment in your post is the engine in the new X2 M35i. It’s not the B48 engine that is present in the G20 330i everywhere else except NA. That’s why all this confusion. Similar nomenclature but different engines in the 330i vs M35i.
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      04-06-2020, 04:51 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by VipinLJ View Post
BMW is partly to blame for all this confusion

The B48 engine mentioned in the attachment in your post is the engine in the new X2 M35i. It’s not the B48 engine that is present in the G20 330i everywhere else except NA. That’s why all this confusion. Similar nomenclature but different engines in the 330i vs M35i.
For sure, my question is, are the internals exactly the same for NA B4 engine as non-NA B4 engine? Is it only external CAT and software for emissions or is there more to it.

I don’t have the answer.
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      04-06-2020, 05:19 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor2010 View Post
For sure, my question is, are the internals exactly the same for NA B4 engine as non-NA B4 engine? Is it only external CAT and software for emissions or is there more to it.

I don’t have the answer.
I’m guessing it is the same since, from my limited knowledge and the reading and digging I did online, the B46 nomenclature in NA is because of SULEV (like the others mentioned) which is basically some software and stuff (no actual engine hardware changes like pistons, crank shaft, connecting rod etc etc. making it the exact same as non-NA B48 cars). Again, this is from my very limited knowledge. I could be wrong but I’m hoping not.
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      04-07-2020, 03:00 AM   #53
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Let's clear this up once and for all. My source is automobile-catalog, pretty sure they are 99% accurate.

Just look at the screenshot below. I learned that apparently the G20 330i in both EU and US/NA both have the B46B20. For sake of extra comparison to authenticate the info and to make sure it isn't a mistake, the G20 320i has the B48B20. This is very interesting, it means there isn't a difference between EU and NA cars in the latest generation of G20 330i's. However, it's interesting to note that the US spec G20 weighs more than the EU spec G20. This may be due to the SULEV parts. I have made a mistake and that is relying on Wikipedia. On Wikipedia, the data suggests that the B46B20 has the same 11:1 compression ratio, but it has a 10.2:1 compression ratio. The new B58B30 in the M340i also has the same 10.2:1 compression ratio. The cylinder bore and stroke is also identical in both B46B20 and B58B30.

It is also important to note that the G20's B48B20 is different from the F30's B48B20. The G20's engine is revised, and the outputs as well as compression ratios are completely different. I assume the stats that some of you and I have found, are all incorrect. Those stats are correct for the F30's B48B20 but not for the G20. Please refer to attachments for reference.
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      04-07-2020, 03:08 AM   #54
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From the data we can assume with a very high likelihood that the new B46B20 and the B58B30 share a lot of similar parts. That means the possibilities for engine building with the new B46B20 is just as vast as the B58B30, at least there will be some parts like forged pistons will be available as well for us B46B20 owners. Also means that reliability of recently updated B46B20 engines are definitely much better, since the B58B30 has shown to be a truly reliable engine, the B46B20 can't be far off if it holds true that the component quality is the same.
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      04-07-2020, 04:03 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g20beam View Post
From the data we can assume with a very high likelihood that the new B46B20 and the B58B30 share a lot of similar parts. That means the possibilities for engine building with the new B46B20 is just as vast as the B58B30, at least there will be some parts like forged pistons will be available as well for us B46B20 owners. Also means that reliability of recently updated B46B20 engines are definitely much better, since the B58B30 has shown to be a truly reliable engine, the B46B20 can't be far off if it holds true that the component quality is the same.
This is the whole idea of modular design, to use as many identical parts as possible. Its the same except its 2 cylinders less.
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      04-07-2020, 06:59 AM   #56
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That chart has errors. US cars do not have GPF. EU have B48.
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      04-07-2020, 01:58 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by todd92 View Post
That chart has errors. US cars do not have GPF. EU have B48.
The GPF doesn't determine B46B20 code, that is part of the emission standard section. If you look at that part of it, EU cars have 'Euro 6d-Temp' on it, pretty sure that's what GPF is included with. For G20 330i US, that code should be SULEV, but it's not shown.

There is no version of the B48B20 that makes the same power as a B46B20. There is a version of the B48B20 that makes 185kW power MAX, which is on the 2018 EU F30. But that's not 190kW. Only B46B20 is capable of making 190kW, and can deliver exactly 2/3rds of the power of a M340i with the B58B30 engine, at 285kW.

Edit: GPF is shown in Emission Control too, I see it now. I'm not entirely sure but it's possible all new recent G20 330i's all have GPFs in them too?
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      04-07-2020, 03:30 PM   #58
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I still think there is a lot of confusion out there. Modular design is one thing, saying that means all the internals are exactly the same because of modular design is simply misleading.

I don't have the answers; however, if I HAD to put my money on one of the two options below it would be option 2.

1. All engine internals and gear box internals are exactly the same for the G20 330i and M340i and x. Obviously, with the 330i engine being only 2/3 of the size of the M340i and x.

2. There are some different engine internals and gear box internals in the G20 330i as compared to the M340i and x.
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      04-07-2020, 03:41 PM   #59
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US does not have GPF, again that chart is wrong.
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      04-08-2020, 12:32 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor2010 View Post
I still think there is a lot of confusion out there. Modular design is one thing, saying that means all the internals are exactly the same because of modular design is simply misleading.

I don't have the answers; however, if I HAD to put my money on one of the two options below it would be option 2.

1. All engine internals and gear box internals are exactly the same for the G20 330i and M340i and x. Obviously, with the 330i engine being only 2/3 of the size of the M340i and x.

2. There are some different engine internals and gear box internals in the G20 330i as compared to the M340i and x.
The gearbox is the same, period. If you order a gearbox from zf it has the exact same part no.
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      04-10-2020, 02:05 PM   #61
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Flashed 93 stage 1 earlier today, very smooth and a great power bump feels like a healthy 50hp. Just now i got the new 93 map uploaded from HC Performance, gonna try it out tomorrow. HCP is probably one of the best tuners in the world so im stoked.
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      04-10-2020, 09:47 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspdw View Post
It you get your dme ID with bm3 you can send them a photo of your actual map ID and they'll tell you. Apparenty HCP is releasing a new stage 1 map this coming week for EU b48s with GPF. On stage 1 93/98oct it will be very close to 300whp.
where will I be able to find my dme id?
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      04-10-2020, 10:34 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspdw View Post
Flashed 93 stage 1 earlier today, very smooth and a great power bump feels like a healthy 50hp. Just now i got the new 93 map uploaded from HC Performance, gonna try it out tomorrow. HCP is probably one of the best tuners in the world so im stoked.
Ayyy congrats, you have a 330i? Or a M340i? Stage 1 is a nice boost, welcome to the family!

Can't wait to see how the HCP tune is, please keep us posted.
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      04-11-2020, 12:05 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by g20beam View Post
Ayyy congrats, you have a 330i? Or a M340i? Stage 1 is a nice boost, welcome to the family!

Can't wait to see how the HCP tune is, please keep us posted.
Its a 330i, i will keep you guys updated. You need to connect your car to bootmod3 its all in the bm3 user manual.
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      04-11-2020, 09:41 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by sspdw View Post
Its a 330i, i will keep you guys updated. You need to connect your car to bootmod3 its all in the bm3 user manual.
So now the new map is in, feels even smoother. Its feels like its a B58 low down, i can honestly say that i would have thougt it was a 6cyl if i wasnt aware. I havent really been pushing it more than 4.5k i will update further.
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      04-11-2020, 10:37 AM   #66
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Quote:
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So now the new map is in, feels even smoother. Its feels like its a B58 low down, i can honestly say that i would have thougt it was a 6cyl if i wasnt aware. I havent really been pushing it more than 4.5k i will update further.
Do you have any other mods on your car other than the flash?
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