[Ghostriderf80]

Originally Posted by DreaminBMW

Kinda funny that since this reveal came out, bimmerpost has posted an average of 3-4 articles per day. Kinda like they wanna drown this thread so far down the line... makes you wonder. Average is 1 or 2 posts a day..

Why? its Frankfurt Auto show, no real reason to drown out the 4 series.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by R N M

Get ready for sales to go in toilet.
My dad just got new S560 as the 750i with new wacky grill was too obnoxious.

Luxury buyers are not stupid.

BMWs issues were not poor styling but poor driving dynamics / steering feel compared to their predecessors. This will surely set the brand back for years.

My nonenthusiast friend who has new X5 and 4series said he would never buy something so goofy.

I have seen many constitutional crises at BMW from the late eighties,nineties financial crisis that killed the original M8. To the first reactions of the E30 replacement the E36. To the Chris Bangle directed E65 7er which debuted at the IAA 18 years ago yesterday.
To the design direction of the E60 and so on and so on.

Controversy does good for BMW. The general consensus that everybody despised BMW design in the early 2000s. But sales justified and disowned that theory.

I like it more when BMW keeps everyone guessing and pushes the envelope to engage in controversial topics such as design. It's beneficial as a marketing view point. As 24 hrs later everyone is still talking about its kidney grill.

So you are doing my job for me. Especially when I can predict that yes this new 4er is controversial. But everyone media and customers alike will still be discussing and debating it for time to come.

[Ghostriderf80]

Originally Posted by DreaminBMW

I think I can live with the F80/F82 hoodline now.

As kids, you would put up a posters of your dream car on your wall.

So here it goes:

...think about this for a sec...

Which one would you want to look back and kiss goodnight?

G22 Red, F80 is dated, aged, like that relative with bad breath and teeth. uhhh...

[Ghostriderf80]

Originally Posted by DZ F30

How does BMW go from this, to this?

Bottom any day.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by m630

Thats TBD, and specifically on the M3/M4....If the US market of enthusiasts reject the design, of which our boards non-scientific polls show 80% hate this design, and if that equates to a net loss of say 15-25% of sales in year 1 vs f80/f82, there will be a real problem for BMWNA and hence M and BMW. They will be forces to address the situation, so to the 80% i say lets boycott this mess and send a me$$age!!!!

Okay, let's look at his without any emotion...........and from the perspective of a major automotive marquee with very smart people looking at statistics and analytics from around the world. Our view is very narrow as the enthusiast. We want what we want, how we want it, and anything outside of that tends to cause trepidation and stirs us emotionally. I'll say it again, this decision wasn't made on a whim. This is a design philosophy 2+ years past its genesis. This decision came after surveying all markets, listening to and considering feedback from all of those markets, and making a determination about how to move forward. Just in the same way that BMW basically makes the MT for the U.S. market (..which has honestly diminished a bit given that the regular 3/4 can no longer be purchased with an MT), BMW also considers the desires of other markets when deciding certain things. It's all speculation at this point about how the U.S. market will feel about this new design language, but we can't assume the greater public reception will be negative just because we feel negatively.


Note: I'm using the term "we" to describe the enthusiast [forum]. It is understood that not all of us hate/despise this new design language.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

I have seen many constitutional crises at BMW from the late eighties,nineties financial crisis that killed the original M8. To the first reactions of the E30 replacement the E36. To the Chris Bangle directed E65 7er which debuted at the IAA 18 years ago yesterday.
To the design direction of the E60 and so on and so on.

Controversy does good for BMW. The general consensus that everybody despised BMW design in the early 2000s. But sales justified and disowned that theory.

I like it more when BMW keeps everyone guessing and pushes the envelope to engage in controversial topics such as design. It's beneficial as a marketing view point. As 24 hrs later everyone is still talking about its kidney grill.

So you are doing my job for me. Especially when I can predict that yes this new 4er is controversial. But everyone media and customers alike will still be discussing and debating it for time to come.

Well said.

[440xiGCMSport2]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

It's like the guys/girls who break up with their significant others/spouses and exclaim with confidence, "You'll never be happy, nor will you ever find anybody better than me!!!! I'm the best thing you ever had!!!"....


....only for that person to find happiness in someone better.

BMW will be just fine. They've already accounted for the potential losses, but new customers will fill that void. If you lose some resistant older customers, but replace them with more progressive customers with fresh eyes, you win. As a business BMW is doing the right thing by moving into this new realm.

Actually big grilles are not progressive at all. it has been over 10 years since Audi has come out with the oversized grilles. BMW is late to the game. Personally progressive customers will be going to cars without grilles like the Tesla and Porsche Taycan and other electric vehicles.
It is old customers who want people to notice them with the big grilles who are stuck in the past.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by 440xiGCMSport2

Actually big grilles are not progressive at all. it has been over 10 years since Audi has come out with the oversized grilles. BMW is late to the game. Personally progressive customers will be going to cars without grilles like the Tesla and Porsche Taycan and other electric vehicles.
It is old customers who want people to notice them with the big grilles who are stuck in the past.

We are all entitled to our perspective(s).

[derritterauskanada]

Do they know? They must know right? How may journalists, and other car company executives have gone by their booth to say how ugly it is? I imagine in the case of the competitors they might thank them. The sales on this thing are going to tank, then they are going to discontinue it because SUV's sell better.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by derritterauskanada

Do they know? They must know right? How may journalists, and other car company executives have gone by their booth to say how ugly it is? I imagine in the case of the competitors they might thank them. The sales on this thing are going to tank, then they are going to discontinue it because SUV's sell better.

..Or maybe, just maybe they know something we don't. It's kinda funny when people predict tanking sales. Time after time, BMW has proven that immediate reaction to bold change to be wrong. SCOTT26 already listed a couple of notable occurrences in BMW's design history. The ugliest 7 by nearly everybody's account ended up selling the best.....and so on.

[derritterauskanada]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

..Or maybe, just maybe they know something we don't. It's kinda funny when people predict tanking sales. Time after time, BMW has proven that immediate reaction to bold change to be wrong. SCOTT26 already listed a couple of notable occurrences in BMW's design history. The ugliest 7 by nearly everybody's account ended up selling the best.....and so on.

Correlation does not imply causation. When the bangle 7 series came out, was on historical American wealth, these people later moved onto SUV's. That is IMO why that one did well and the one after did not sell as well, even though it was a far better looking vehicle.

Either way if I am proven wrong, I am not putting my money into that thing. I so wanted this to look good, and for the rumours to be wrong, the rest of the car looks so good. Just a damn shame really. Really this and the X7 make me not want to buy any Bimmer.

[J-RO]

Does anyone know the exact height and width of the grilles on the concept vehicle?

[m630]

Originally Posted by JTO24

But they'd have to get actual customer feedback because not only are they going with big grills but going to AWD + ZF auto. So a lot of previous M3/4 buyers might not buy due to that drivetrain switch alone. I for one like the big grills and will gladly take a G80 in 6mt + rwd, if it comes to fruition.

🙄 I am a customer! 30years straight! And just coming from an F80 was expecting the next M4 to be my next ride. 100% sure I hate this grille and 100% certain I will not buy a car that has a grille that looks like that.

[J-RO]

I am not opposed to a big grille. What I am opposed to is a big UGLY grille that is way out of proportion to the front of the car. Oh, the humanity!

[R N M]

Originally Posted by solstice

The F8X went from a screamer of a NA V8 building power all the way to the 8500 redline giving it one of the highest piston speeds ever in a production car and a resulting heavenly sound track to a turbo charged farting harsh sounding 3l I6. It went from BMW signature HPS that communicated every change in grip levels to a near numb EPS.

None of those things reduced the number of buyers. I can only interpret that as M3 buyers are highly adaptable and accepting as long as the new car bring performance improvements and remain a top achiever in the segment so I strongly doubt it will play out any different this time.

E90 M3 sold in small #s.
The E92 coupe was the more popular choice partially bec E90 sedan was very ugly design and even M version was only marginally better.

F80 on the other hand sold like hotcakes because EVERYONE LOVED it!
It sold on par with M4 if not better.

Therefore styling outweighs pretty much all and this new hideous grill will definitely have negative effect.

Just look at Acura and Lexus.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by R N M

E90 M3 sold in small #s.
The E92 coupe was the more popular choice partially bec E90 sedan was very ugly design and even M version was only marginally better.

F80 on the other hand sold like hotcakes because EVERYONE LOVED it!
It sold on par with M4 if not better.

Therefore styling outweighs pretty much all and this new hideous grill will definitely have negative effect.

Just look at Acura and Lexus.

Memories are short I see. The F8X wasn't accepted without criticism; neither was the E9X and E46.

[solstice]

Originally Posted by R N M

E90 M3 sold in small #s.
The E92 coupe was the more popular choice partially bec E90 sedan was very ugly design and even M version was only marginally better.

F80 on the other hand sold like hotcakes because EVERYONE LOVED it!
It sold on par with M4 if not better.

Therefore styling outweighs pretty much all and this new hideous grill will definitely have negative effect.

Just look at Acura and Lexus.

Styling outweighs all? Man I really hope you aren’t right about that...
Between sedan and coupe naturally it matters, it’s just an option of the same car and BMW don’t care about which you buy.

To them overall numbers matters M3+M4 and I strongly doubt the G8X will sell less than the F8X if the car continues to be the performance leader with usual great ergonomics and win comparison test after test. With AWD and 510hp it will not be slow, the numbers and driving dynamics will bring buyers large grill or not. How many? We’ll see but I don’t think BMW need to be concerned.

[snareman]

I've watched all of the other similar brands like Audi, Lexus, etc put the giant grilles on their cars and each time I wrote them off as never getting one of that brand because they are all so ugly. I have been so happy that BMW had resisted that trend, sadly until now. I'm just hoping that the car looks less hideous, perhaps maybe even attractive (?) in person and when they come out with the production version. Hopefully when I see it in person the grille doesn't make me write off BMW as I have each of the other brands.

[DreaminBMW]

Maybe they were trying to show up the Americans?... Italians...? trying to make sense of this...

[J-RO]

Originally Posted by DreaminBMW

Maybe they were trying to show up the Americans?

The Mustang looks a lot better to me.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by J-RO

The Mustang looks a lot better to me.

exactly - This isn't a big grille problem, it's a bad design problem

[R N M]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Memories are short I see. The F8X wasn't accepted without criticism; neither was the E9X and E46.

The criticism was never about styling/ design.
Everyone loved the F8X styling especially sedan F80 over E90.