[TheStoic]

Neat thread.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

One of my neighbours used to run 5-series M-cars, he ran a couple of E39 M5s, then moved to the E60 M5. He didn't keep the E60 M5 for many months, wished he'd not parted with his last E39 M5.

Why, with that amazing V10? Simply put, it wasn't useable for this guy, as his daily driver. The E39 was a perfect blend, which rewarded where ever he drove it. The E60, neither drivetrain or chassis worked for him.

During dotcom boom our company had a group buy of E39 including M5, 540i M-sport, and 530i(my car), all MT. Those E39's are really great mix of comfort and competence in their trim levels.

My recollection is that, if comparably equipped, 540i vs. 530i price difference was $4k-$5k, while 540i vs. M5 was $8k-ish. The comparison I did was to load up 530i base to match 540i base, and local up 540i to match M5 base.

In F30, comparably equipped 335i vs. 328i was $3.5k apart, and 335i vs. M3 was $7k apart.

In G20 though, the gap has significantly widened to $7.5k and $15k respectively of 330i vs. M340i, and M340i vs. M3. This current gen of G20 puts a lot of differentiation (e.g. HP/lb-ft) among the trims, and charge a premium for each jump.

I have been driven all 3 G20 trims, I would prefer M3 for twisties, M340i for highway cruiser, and 330i for DD all-around.

[Randy Johnson]

Hahahaha love this quote!!!!

Originally Posted by RTPenland

People - buy and drive the car that makes you happy and meets your needs - the badge is now meaningless - just like 90% of LV bags are fake

If your driving wants or needs or ego needs the M3XX buy it (if you can) like it or not prestige cars are a dying breed almost no one cares about your "M" vs a Kia - they are all good - so if you need an M car to hit the track or go fast to grocery store cool...but realize it now or later no one cares. And if you think strangers do (and that is important to you) spend some time and money on therapy to find out why you care. That said if the look back in the parking lot makes you happy - super 100% cool but don't think anyone else cares. I would say this about BMW in general - not just M cars but M owners seem to be a little more sensitive. OOpsie forgot to mention yes I've owned several M cars my favorite my E30 M3 which I only (exceptions) that I took out at night and enjoyed the drive and car

An M car not track driven is a waste - buy it and use it (most don't)

I think most M cars never find their way to the track - it's just stupid - but kudos to BMW for building the car and taking the money. M Car track driven - good for you for you enjoy - M car in the USA with our speed limits never taken to the track? Dumb

[TheMaxXHD]

Originally Posted by SLGrassoPA

How a topic can so far digress from the original subject! Anyway, some owners have the steering problem. Others say they don't.

But what is undeniable is that every major auto publication / review has found the need for constant micro corrections at highway speeds in the 3 series.

I am not talking about numbness (which we know is the way BMW steering has gone). I am not talking about alignments, pressure, balancing, tires, etc.. I am talking about the need for constant micro corrections to the left and to the right at highway speeds to keep the car going straight. After a while, it's exhausting.

This is all my humble opinion and I believe many have just learned to live with the steering issue in the 330 and 340.

For those that think they don't have the problem, go to your local showroom and drive a 2 series or a 5 series and you'll see the immediate difference. It's night and day. They - unlike the 3 series - hold a straight line at any speed, including over 40MPH. They - unlike the 3 series - have a much tighter on center feel and react much better to inputs. No vagueness, no numbness, and most important -- no need for repeated and what feels like never-ending corrections.

Better yet, drive an MB or Audi - or probably most any brand - and you will see a drastic difference in steering feel. The BMW 3 series steering - my opinion - is like a big Chevy, but with the need for constant corrections at highway speed.

For me. I was able to live with the vagueness, the numbness, the lack of feedback, but the need for constant micro corrections at highway speeds is exhausting!!!

BMW NA knows about the issue. Ask any salesperson that you know well about the complaints with the 3 series steering.

********The reviewer here starting around 22:30 nails it - if anyone here has the issue - watch this video now.*********

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1774603

Similarly - the EDMUNDS editor and senior testing manager says:

"The steering in this X3 leaves me with mixed feelings. I really enjoy driving around town thanks to its small dimensions, tight turning radius and overall maneuverability. On the highway it's a different story. The steering wheel is numb off-center. So after a short time on a straight road, with the steering wheel pointed dead-ahead, the car drifts slightly. It requires constant, small adjustments to keep the car in the middle of the lane. It happened often enough that I switched from Comfort to Sport mode, thinking the heavier steering setting might help. No such luck." — Mike Schmidt, senior manager, vehicle testing operations...

From the same review:

"Similar to the base X3, the M40i's steering sometimes succumbs to a heavy-yet-lifeless feel, giving the SUV a wandering sensation that's especially evident while cruising on a highway."

https://www.edmunds.com/bmw/x3/2022/...erm-road-test/

For the record, just wanted to update you. I went out again in my M340i. This thing is straight as an arrow at highway speeds, even going as far as lifting my hands (carefully and briefly from the steering wheel to confirm, this thing goes straight). If there is some straight line drift issue, it either doesn’t exist on my specific vehicle, or is not noticeable enough for me to really complain about. I’d say it’ll hold the straight line at highway just about as well as my hydraulic steering E90. No crazy microadjustments other than normal adjustments that is about the same as any other vehicle, atleast about the same as my E90.

In fact, I’d say it is even better to drive because when you do have to adjust, it is much more subtle adjustments because it is easier to move the steering wheel compared to my E90, meaning less fatigue.

I do not doubt there may be an issue. But I am just letting you know, either my vehicle doesn’t have the issue, or it was fixed perhaps with the LCI (doubt it), or it is so unnoticeable on my vehicle that I don’t notice or feel it.

Don’t know what to tell you. I think a few threads have talked about the way the wheels are adjusted from factory or something on a per unit basis that may cause certain people’s vehicles to have this issue, while others don’t.

Just wanted to update you.

[bavarianride]

My G20 330i also points straight and stays straight when braked unless the roads are uneven/not flat, in fact, that was the first and only thing I really tested when I took delivery(and I was ready to walk if it haven't behaved as expected).

Originally Posted by TheMaxXHD

For the record, just wanted to update you. I went out again in my M340i. This thing is straight as an arrow at highway speeds, even going as far as lifting my hands (carefully and briefly from the steering wheel to confirm, this thing goes straight). If there is some straight line drift issue, it either doesn’t exist on my specific vehicle, or is not noticeable enough for me to really complain about. I’d say it’ll hold the straight line at highway just about as well as my hydraulic steering E90. No crazy microadjustments other than normal adjustments that is about the same as any other vehicle, atleast about the same as my E90.

In fact, I’d say it is even better to drive because when you do have to adjust, it is much more subtle adjustments because it is easier to move the steering wheel compared to my E90, meaning less fatigue.

[EXE46]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Yeah m340i is definitely not a boat. It handles very well for what it is and is still pretty nimble. I do think it's under-tired however, and that lends to some severe cases of understeer when you suddenly take a sharp turn.

Severely under-tired, a mystery as to why they chose such narrow tires for a car with this much power. Even an IS350 has wider rears than our cars.

Congrats on the G80, I am leaning towards a 6MT G87 and keep the M340i, though I find the looks sorta odd. Needs to see in real life before making a decision.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by EXE46

Severely under-tired, a mystery as to why they chose such narrow tires for a car with this much power. Even an IS350 has wider rears than our cars.

Congrats on the G80, I am leaning towards a 6MT G87 and keep the M340i, though I find the looks sorta odd. Needs to see in real life before making a decision.

Thanks! Been waiting since February... I'm on the home stretch now...

The G42 I think looks great in person. I was iffy about it when I saw it in pics but it looks good. I'm guessing G87 will be similar... odd looking in pics but will look great in person.

[sfgator]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

Looking at the BMW site, the M340 & the M3 have the same performance (0-60) despite the M3 having 100 hp bump - can someone explain that? Also running through the specs on both cars, I'm not sure what I'd be getting for the extra $18,000 base price? I'm not against paying more money for performance pkgs/options if they actually make it a better car than a lower trim level. I just can't see the huge price difference between these cars?

F80 had the same 0-60 as the G20 M340i, perhaps that is what you are thinking about.

[///Medge]

Even with ZTK ps4s?

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Yeah m340i is definitely not a boat. It handles very well for what it is and is still pretty nimble. I do think it's under-tired however, and that lends to some severe cases of understeer when you suddenly take a sharp turn.

The thoughts about the price gap between m340i and m3 are interesting. For me the gap makes some sense if you start to consider the merino, bigger wheels/tires, bigger brakes, the premium on the engine, the seats (even the base ones are better), and all the upgraded M components. I didn’t buy the M car for two reasons: 1). Just too much power/performance to justify for a DD and 2) Subjectively, the looks.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by ///Medge

Even with ZTK ps4s?

ZTK doesn't change the tire size... you're still running 225s up front. I swapped out my runflats within the first couple months of owning my m340i, and while it helped, it's still severely under-tired for its power and weight. The tires can not adequately handle the weight transfer the car is asking of them during aggressive maneuvering.

[Panscan340]

Originally Posted by EXE46

Severely under-tired, a mystery as to why they chose such narrow tires for a car with this much power. Even an IS350 has wider rears than our cars.

Congrats on the G80, I am leaning towards a 6MT G87 and keep the M340i, though I find the looks sorta odd. Needs to see in real life before making a decision.

Would think front tires are more the issue. The 255 rears are not terrible, the car doesn’t really spin or lose traction. Wider rear tires while keeping fronts same would make it understeer more.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by sfgator

F80 had the same 0-60 as the G20 M340i, perhaps that is what you are thinking about.

I was looking at the current 2023 models - right on BMW's website.

*Regardless, I'll probably end up with an M3 Competition x-drive, because I generally buy the highest optioned, best performing trim level of whatever I buy. My questions were from a learning standpoint to understand the differences for the price increases.

[wdc330i]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

ZTK doesn't change the tire size... you're still running 225s up front. I swapped out my runflats within the first couple months of owning my m340i, and while it helped, it's still severely under-tired for its power and weight. The tires can not adequately handle the weight transfer the car is asking of them during aggressive maneuvering.

Those who think the M340 is under-tired and don't want to spring for an M3 should consider the 4 series. My 4 GC runs 245/255.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by wdc330i

Those who think the M340 is under-tired and don't want to spring for an M3 should consider the 4 series. My 4 GC runs 245/255.

I didn't know that about the 4 GC. m340i would DEFINITELY benefit from that setup.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by EXE46

Severely under-tired, a mystery as to why they chose such narrow tires for a car with this much power. Even an IS350 has wider rears than our cars.

I think staggered tires do induce understeer, right?

I also recall other forum posters saying narrow tires + small(er) rims are preferred on track to reduce unsprung weights, and a square setup is more neutral than staggered.

As far as 225/45-18 front and 255/40-18 rear, this guy does pretty well with those on a 184HP G20.

[seccsc]

Originally Posted by EXE46

Severely under-tired, a mystery as to why they chose such narrow tires for a car with this much power. Even an IS350 has wider rears than our cars.

Congrats on the G80, I am leaning towards a 6MT G87 and keep the M340i, though I find the looks sorta odd. Needs to see in real life before making a decision.

I can see that if you are rear wheel only. I had this staggered setup on my old E90 ‘07 335i and had issues putting the power down modified. My M340xi launches just as hard in the wet as it does in the dry with the PS4Ss. No issues in the turns. However, I have never tracked the car.

[seccsc]

Originally Posted by TheMaxXHD

Steering is more subjective than people believe, and people seem to forget this. I think it is a by-product of people listening to reviewers rather than independent thought.

I find the M340i steering perfectly acceptable after 100 miles of driving so far. For reference, I am coming from a tight, hydraulic steering, E90.

If I was to listen to this forum, I should be crying for my E90 steering back. But yet, I am not. I think it is different sure, but bad, nah. I might actually prefer the M340i steering (though with only 100 miles, I think it is too soon to make a definitive response).

Same here for me. I had my E90 for 13 years before buying my M340xi.

[rad21]

Originally Posted by seccsc

Same here for me. I had my E90 for 13 years before buying my M340xi.

I agree as well- had my E90 for 15 years before my M340i and while I admit the steering is different, it is not a big deal when I consider the overall ownership experience and capabilities of the M340.

[madpistol]

Ah, this topic again. Love these discussions.

I've watched countless videos on the M3/M4, and a few which compare the M340i to the M3. I also owned an M340i and traded it in for a loaded M440i Gran Coupe. Here's what I've learned.

The M3 is tuned completely differently than an M340i. The suspension is stiffer, the dampening is firmer, tires are bigger, seats have more bolstering, and the M3 is lighter. The chassis is also quite a bit different on the M3. In all, the M3 is a COMPLETELY different class of car compared to the M340i.

Now, with that being said, I "believe" the M340i (and M440i GC) is a more complete package. In the States, our base model is the 330i. In that regard, the M340i's engine is literally half way between the 330i and the M3 Competition. However, the suspension in the M340i is definitely softer than the M3. I've also noticed that the Comfort mode in the M3 keeps the engine revs significantly higher than the Comfort mode in the M340i. This is by design as the M3 is supposed to feel like it's ready to jump off the line at any time. My M440i Gran Coupe, by comparison, feels extremely relaxed in Comfort mode. It still has plenty of power, and that power is available within a second of putting your foot to the floor, but it's a different character compared to the M3/M4.

I would venture a guess and say that the transmission response in the M340i/M440i in "Sport" is similar to the M3/M4 in "Comfort", and the M3/M4 does not have an equivalent to Comfort mode from the M340i/M440i. BMW knows their customers in the M3/M4 market want something that feels like it's ready to go, and allowing the S58 to loaf along at 1100 RPM would make the car feel lethargic... it's a twin turbo motor, after all.

The B58, by comparison, has great low-down torque, so it still feels great at low RPMs. The B58 also has a very broad torque band, which makes the car feel smooth and effortless. The S58 is also fantastically smooth, but the power is up high. This is, again, by design as it makes the car feel extremely special when driving hard. A heavily tuned/boosted B58 will never feel that way without a new turbo fitted to the engine, at which point the S58 makes more sense, IMO.

So is an M340i/M440i a true M car? I don't believe it is. It's a great introduction to the M lineup, but it's still a fairly comfortable daily cruiser... that has the ability to transform into a competent sports car at the push of a button. That's why I think the M340i/M440i is a much better package; it can do everything, and it can change character to suit the driver's mood. Not sure an M3/M4 is that versatile. However, put the M3/M4 on a fast twisty road or a track, and it's game over for the M340i/M440i. The M3/M4 will decimate it.

[TTG]

This reminds me of the 335 vs M3 discussions on E9X forums back in the day which I am sure is still going on

I can afford both cars so money is not a concern here.

M340 is the PERFECT daily driver as far as I am concerned and I don't track or modify my cars. IMO BMW hit it out of the ball park the M340. Even if they were both priced the same, I will still take the M340 for my purposes.

M340
-Plenty of power
-Looks much much better than the pigged nosed M3/4
-Way more comfortable
-Plenty capable for daily street driving
-Better gas mileage for those who care & probably cheaper to maintain (both I don't care about)

M3/4
-Good god what an amazing driving machine. Best M car I have driven besides the M2 Comp
-A car that you can track all weekend and drive to work on a Monday if it is your thing
-Suspension is too rough for being a daily which is my personal opinion
-Amazing seat offerings
-MANUAL trans on base model which is amazing
-Horrible looks

You can call M340 whatever you want, baby M, tuned 330 etc etc. M car will own it all day at a track however way you look at it. For those who track their cars and think that M340 will beat M cars, you are mistaken. Of course fan boys will start talking if I chip it, tune it, mess with suspension......we are talking stock vs stock.

I am glad BMW gave us such an amazing option for those of us who prefer a better ride comfort on daily basis.

I would of ordered a M3 manual as a weekend car if it wasn't for the looks but I am sticking to 911 as my weekend car for now.

This is coming from someone who owns a 2020 M340, owned bunch of M cars along with many BMWs over the years.

I know many will disagree but that is my personal opinion.

M340 is the 1st BMW that I bought out of my lease, thats how much I like this thing and might end up keeping it for a while.

Peace everyone

[Rawhide]

Originally Posted by TheMaxXHD

For the record, just wanted to update you. I went out again in my M340i. This thing is straight as an arrow at highway speeds, even going as far as lifting my hands (carefully and briefly from the steering wheel to confirm, this thing goes straight). If there is some straight line drift issue, it either doesn’t exist on my specific vehicle, or is not noticeable enough for me to really complain about.

My steering works fine too. Holds straight and true and is responsive enough for what it intended to be - a quick and sporty daily driver.

I've been around here for awhile and across 3 different BMWs over the years. It's a great place with a lot of good information, but take things here with a grain of salt. Things have a tendency to get blown way, way out of proportion. Have fun with your M340i, it's an amazing piece of automotive technology and a pure joy to drive.

[Paulskit]

I have a friend who is a professional driver and owned an m340 (2020). He tracked it regularly, despite popular opinion it won't hold up. The car showed pretty amazing times, being stock with st1 map only. Usually far better than cars way more expensive and powerful than 340.
The missing piece in this thread (and many others like this) is driver's skills .
I would totally not recommend getting an 340 to someone who doesn't have relevant experience, not to mention an M3 where it becomes dangerous. You have to be prepared to push this thing to a limit. And I bet there are very few people on the forum who have those skills and experience. I don't and that's one of the reasons I'm not looking into that direction. I won't be able to use it the way it is supposed to.