[Eric500]

Motor trend posted a comparison to the Guilia. You can guess how it turns out so it's not even worth posting a link.

Sure, maybe the Guilia does drive better, but it's probably impossible to live with given it's reliability and worse interior

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by Eric Tsang

Motor trend posted a comparison to the Guilia. You can guess how it turns out so it's not even worth posting a link.

Sure, maybe the Guilia does drive better, but it's probably impossible to live with given it's reliability and worse interior

A good friend of mine has an Giulia. The interior is very nice although I am not sure if is standard or an optional upgrade. I think the interior compares very favorably with the 3 Series. Actually it is nicer than the interior on my 2007 335i which had every option. A few weeks ago my friend with the Alfa visited for the weekend as did a friend with an M235. The interior of the Alfa seemed more upscale than the interior of the M235 but the interior of my M4 with individual full merino leather was nicer than either of them.

have driven my friends Alfa on the street and on the track. It drives very well although to be fair I have not driven it back to back with a 3 series.

[Pauleebe]

Originally Posted by captainaudio

A good friend of mine has an Giulia. The interior is very nice although I am not sure if is standard or an optional upgrade. I think the interior compares very favorably with the 3 Series

It drives very well. I have driven it on the street and on the track.

I seem to read good things about the Giulia, but reliability makes me nervous.

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by Pauleebe

I seem to read good things about the Giulia, but reliability makes me nervous.

I do not disagree. My BMW M4s have been reliable as was my 2007 335i but I never had a HPFP failure which was a cronic problem on that model car.

[agentorange]

Originally Posted by Fuller

It wouldn't be as much of an issue if our states and municipalities used our tax dollars to do their jobs and keep the roads in acceptable condition. Forget about driving comfort, or sporty cars with stiff suspension, in some regions roads are bad enough to cause significant damage to automobile tires and suspension. Some roads can actually be hazardous to travel on, even in the best conditions. I've had friends and colleagues from overseas come here (Boston area) and express astonishment that roads in an industrialized nation could be so poorly maintained.

You've just reminded of a comment wife#1 made as we drove on I-40 West of Flagstaff in a 4x4 SUV.

"I've never been off-roading with a center divider before".

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by agentorange

They blamed the stiffness on the Track Handling package. Buying the "Track" package on any car these days is just a way of spending lots of money to have your kidneys pounded to jelly on most US roads.

When will we see a test of a BMW/Mercedes/Jaguar/Audi that a normal human would buy? Probably never. It's just not how the corporate press fleet manager thinks.

So much hyperbole. Talk about sounding dramatic.

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by agentorange

They blamed the stiffness on the Track Handling package. Buying the "Track" package on any car these days is just a way of spending lots of money to have your kidneys pounded to jelly on most US roads.

When will we see a test of a BMW/Mercedes/Jaguar/Audi that a normal human would buy? Probably never. It's just not how the corporate press fleet manager thinks.

I will always select the stiff sport tuned suspension, or track handling package, or whatever when it's available. I like a drive that feels taut, precise, and responsive. As it is, with the f30 generation, I felt that the sport suspension only did so much to deliver that responsive feel, but it was certainly better than the squishy, rolly, unsettled base suspension, especially on the early f30s.

I don't see the point in getting a 3 series if it's going to feel like a pickup truck around windy roads. The f36 with sport suspension is better. Maybe still not up to the expectations I had after hearing about the "bmw magic" for so many years, but it's acceptable (at least by normal commuter car standards).

[vedant]

Judging by the interior shots in the article their tester doesn't appear to include adaptive dampers (there's a blank where "Adaptive" should be), which leads me to believe that the car in fact did not come with the handling package at all. AFAIK, the handling package includes adaptive dampers.

My opinion -- with the package and in Comfort mode -- the drive is sublime.

[Tethys]

Originally Posted by vedant

Judging by the interior shots in the article their tester doesn't appear to include adaptive dampers (there's a blank where "Adaptive" should be), which leads me to believe that the car in fact did not come with the handling package at all. AFAIK, the handling package includes adaptive dampers.

My opinion -- with the package and in Comfort mode -- the drive is sublime.

Is he talking about the M Sport Suspension? It doesn't have the adaptive dampers on it, I have that suspension and it is a little stiff. I can live with it but a 10 hour trip in it over Thanksgiving had my lower back not happy.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by Tethys

Is he talking about the M Sport Suspension? It doesn't have the adaptive dampers on it, I have that suspension and it is a little stiff. I can live with it but a 10 hour trip in it over Thanksgiving had my lower back not happy.

I just commented on another thread about G20's torsional rigidity, some numbers from another car forum lists some measurements, and the G20 is approaching F80 M3 stiffness.

I can tell u that my G20 330i non-M is already stiffer than F30 328i M-sport, and the ride is quite stiff for me going over bumps and road imperfection.

But that G20 chassis stiffness works great at cloverleafs outrunning Tesla.

BMW E39 5-Series 24,000
BMW E46 Convertible 10,500
BMW E46 Coupe (w/folding seats) 12,500
BMW E46 Sedan (w/folding seats) 13,000
BMW E46 Sedan (w/o folding seats) 18,000
BMW E46 Wagon (w/folding seats) 14,000
BMW E46 M3 GTR (w/roll cage) 46,000 (data source the same as F80 M3)
BMW E60 5-Series 24,200 (16,250 from JLR source) (1st bending: 45.6 Hz; 1st torsional: 44.7 Hz)
BMW E63 6-Series Coupe 28,000
BMW E64 6-Series Convertible 15,000
BMW E53 X5 23,100
BMW E70 X5 28,000
BMW E71 X6 29,000 source
BMW E83 X3 21,400 (w/o panoramic sunroof); 19,000 (w/ panoramic sunroof) source
BMW E85 Z4 16,000
BMW E85 Z4 Coupe 32,000
BMW E85 Z4 M 16,000
BMW E85 Z4 M Coupe 32,000
BMW E52 Z8 10,500
BMW E90 3-Series 22,500
BMW E90 3-Series Convertible 15,750
BMW F07 5GT 31,500 (w/o sunroof); 27,500 (w/ sunroof)
BMW F10 5-Series 30,200 (bending 9,300)
BMW F12 6-Series Convertible 22,500
BMW F13 6-Series Coupe 43,000
BMW F15 X5 29,400
BMW F25 X3 30,000 (w/o sunroof); 26,000 (w/ sunroof)
BMW F30 3-Series 29,300
BMW F80 M3 40,000
BMW G20 3-Series 36,500 (w/ sunroof)

[Tethys]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

I just commented on another thread about G20's torsional rigidity, some numbers from another car forum lists some measurements, and the G20 is approaching F80 M3 stiffness.

I can tell u that my G20 330i non-M is already stiffer than F30 328i M-sport, and the ride is quite stiff for me going over bumps and road imperfection.

But that G20 chassis stiffness works great at cloverleafs outrunning Tesla.

BMW E39 5-Series 24,000
BMW E46 Convertible 10,500
BMW E46 Coupe (w/folding seats) 12,500
BMW E46 Sedan (w/folding seats) 13,000
BMW E46 Sedan (w/o folding seats) 18,000
BMW E46 Wagon (w/folding seats) 14,000
BMW E46 M3 GTR (w/roll cage) 46,000 (data source the same as F80 M3)
BMW E60 5-Series 24,200 (16,250 from JLR source) (1st bending: 45.6 Hz; 1st torsional: 44.7 Hz)
BMW E63 6-Series Coupe 28,000
BMW E64 6-Series Convertible 15,000
BMW E53 X5 23,100
BMW E70 X5 28,000
BMW E71 X6 29,000 source
BMW E83 X3 21,400 (w/o panoramic sunroof); 19,000 (w/ panoramic sunroof) source
BMW E85 Z4 16,000
BMW E85 Z4 Coupe 32,000
BMW E85 Z4 M 16,000
BMW E85 Z4 M Coupe 32,000
BMW E52 Z8 10,500
BMW E90 3-Series 22,500
BMW E90 3-Series Convertible 15,750
BMW F07 5GT 31,500 (w/o sunroof); 27,500 (w/ sunroof)
BMW F10 5-Series 30,200 (bending 9,300)
BMW F12 6-Series Convertible 22,500
BMW F13 6-Series Coupe 43,000
BMW F15 X5 29,400
BMW F25 X3 30,000 (w/o sunroof); 26,000 (w/ sunroof)
BMW F30 3-Series 29,300
BMW F80 M3 40,000
BMW G20 3-Series 36,500 (w/ sunroof)

The car handles incredibly and feels like it's on rails but long trips in it suck. As a matter of fact I have to drive to my in-laws for Christmas and I'm probably going to take our M8 Comp instead of the 330i for that reason.

[GWIZ]

The base suspension on the '22 330ix with 19s is overly stiff. When I find myself reflexively wincing before hitting expansion joints on the freeway, I can't deny that this suspension is strung too tightly, even with softer Michelins that have taken the place of the original Bridgestones. I have been setting my tire pressures below 30 PSI on every corner to take the edge off of daily driving.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by GWIZ

The base suspension on the '22 330ix with 19s is overly stiff. When I find myself reflexively wincing before hitting expansion joints on the freeway, I can't deny that this suspension is strung too tightly, even with softer Michelins that have taken the place of the original Bridgestones. I have been setting my tire pressures below 30 PSI on every corner to take the edge off of daily driving.

Wow 30 psi is a bit low. I have been putting 36 psi cold on all 4 corners with the factory RFT(Bridgestone?) on my non-M base suspension 330i with 18-inch rims, and at times the ride is still a bit stiff.

Which Michelins do u have now?

[GWIZ]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Wow 30 psi is a bit low. I have been putting 36 psi cold on all 4 corners with the factory RFT(Bridgestone?) on my non-M base suspension 330i with 18-inch rims, and at times the ride is still a bit stiff.

Which Michelins do u have now?

Michelin MXM4 ZPs. I must have run-flats on this particular car, and these Michelins noticeably absorb road imperfections better than the Bridgestones and produce less road noise (out of curiosity, I measured cabin noise before and after the tire change and the Michelins are a few decibels lower on average over the same stretches of road). Yet the Michelins still handle well enough to inspire driving confidence. The 19s low-profile sidewalls help maintain handling stability. At least now, I experience far fewer harsh impacts than before. But the ride/handling balance is still not representative of a polished sport sedan that is BMW's namesake. So I keep my tire pressures below 30 PSI to compensate. I'm not sure why BMW doesn't offer the adaptive dampers on the base sedan; that would be the first option I'd select.

[G30M]

stiffness depends on personal preference and what you want to do with it

would be perfect on a track but perhaps it's a daily drive and therefore a bit too fatiguining

[Gaviatrix]

My 330i M Sport has adaptive dampers and staggered 19" Pirelli PZero RFTs. Here in Australia that is the standard suspension/wheel set up for the M Sport cars - it is 10 mm lower than the Luxury Line spec. Around the city in Comfort/Adaptive I find it firm but not uncomfortable (speed humps excepted). On the highway it is excellent - smooth and quiet - but in Western Oz we don't have concrete roads with expansion joints, and our road surfaces are much better than I've generally experienced on my visits to the US (and come to that eastern Australia, especially Sydney/NSW where the road surfaces are pretty rubbish) so I can see why some of you may find it a bit wearing on long trips. When the Pirellis are done I will change to Michelin PS4 or PS5 - I have PS4s on my Jaguar and I think they are quieter, more compliant and grippier than the PZeros. Hopefully, PS5 will be the same but with better wear characteristics promised.

Incidentally, I can't say I notice any real difference to suspension compliance in Adaptive mode over Comfort. Sport/Sport+ is definitely only for good smooth surfaces though or you'll lose your fillings!

[G30M]

sport vs comfort is a difference in damping rate

if you are going slow then sport damping rate is too high

if you are going fast sport damping rate should be better than comfort regardless of road surface - the wheel is returned to the starting point before the next hit. vs the wheel is still somewhere in the bouncing up or down phase and then it needs to take the next hit and the next hit and so on

in theory .. it all depends on how damping rate matches the hits