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      10-13-2020, 03:04 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freakystyly View Post
https://www.motortrend.com/news/hyun...-transmission/

I know it's missing a pedal and that pedal is just as important... but I found this interesting.
Can you control shift point/engagement manually still ? Otherwise just a cute spin on popping auto left. IMO
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      10-14-2020, 01:30 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
No way it will ever feel like a real manual gearbox.
i think they could make it feel like a real manual. or close enough.

the problem is designing an interior around that shifter to please a small subset of enthusiasts. look at any modern mclaren/ferrari interior. there is no spot to place a shifter. companies are not going to redesign all that just to please a small subset of enthusiasts.

that and some of these cars have small footwells. you'd lose the dead pedal for a clutch
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      10-14-2020, 09:29 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
i think they could make it feel like a real manual. or close enough.

the problem is designing an interior around that shifter to please a small subset of enthusiasts. look at any modern mclaren/ferrari interior. there is no spot to place a shifter. companies are not going to redesign all that just to please a small subset of enthusiasts...
Three on the tree is how it used to be done.
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      10-14-2020, 07:42 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
its definitely possible

we already have throttle and brake by wire. its only a matter of time before clutch-by-wire. computer controlled clutch engagement with some fake feedback through the pedal. it would feel like a real manual, but prevent mis shifts... and be able to go into full auto / dct mode.

doubt any company would dump money into this idea though.
I'm surprised one of these one-off, niche manufacturers who build unique super cars in really small numbers haven't tinkered with this idea a bit. It would be so cool, and almost everyone who could afford such a unique car would buy it, just 'cause it would be the first of its kind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral View Post
Not a bad idea there Kevin, Auto for town and city and manual for fun on country roads
Exactly. So many of us would buy it, because a lot of us like manuals, but still want the convenience of an automatic like 80% of the time while we drive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJBO View Post
I’m surprised this hasn’t been done. Considering how much tuning they can do with boxes like the ZF8, I’m sure they could simulate some manual characteristics with a digital clutch pedal and H pattern.
So my question is, can they actually create a true manual transmission, and then have some "gear" on the stalk that is simply A for "auto", and then the car in that "gear" would just shift by itself, like in a DCT? The auto mode or "gear" may be a little clunky (like early SMGs were), but I bet many of us would take that as long as we had the option of an "automatic" mode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moflow View Post
It has been done with a torque converter. Alfa did it back in the day.

https://drivetribe.com/p/bring-it-ba...Ss-Pio88O57fEA

I have long advocated for such a system with dct equipped cars. Porsche let’s you “clutch in” by pulling both paddles in a pdk. Map that function to a pedal. Same with the shifter, you’re not replacing a physical connection, just an electronic signal. If you look at some of the high end shifters in the sim racing market, they’ve managed to simulate some pretty good feel.

The upside for manufacturers is that they get to design the car to only have one transmission while still pleasing manual enthusiasts, cutting down on r and d costs while still tapping the market.
Thanks for the article, I never knew much of that. I think they could do it. Well, we know it CAN be done, so it's simply at what cost?

But I think in all of our dreams, we actually get a true manual with a clutch, and then there's a gear you could put the shifter into that turns the tranny into an automatic, shifting by itself, and basically locking out the clutch. Thus, in this Auto mode or gear, the car would be like a DCT or PDK and shift by itself. And there would be no paddle shifts or anything, so the driver couldn't control the gear beyond using the gas pedal.

But then you could switch it back at any time (or maybe you have to be stopped?) to manual mode, re-engaging the clutch.

Hmmmm....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
No way it will ever feel like a real manual gearbox.
If they started with a manual gearbox as the basis of the tranny, it would.
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      10-14-2020, 08:25 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freakystyly View Post
https://www.motortrend.com/news/hyun...-transmission/

I know it's missing a pedal and that pedal is just as important... but I found this interesting.
Wow, this is neat. I think I'd actually consider buying a clutchless "manual" tranny, because indeed, I get tired of pushing the gear pedal in way more than I do moving the car into my selected gear.

If they could perfect this idea, and I could go from like 4th to 2nd, and it auto-rev matches, and I don't need to push a clutch in, sounds like a winner to me.

Let's go Porsche, BMW, Honda or Mercedes, do something like THIS please.
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      10-16-2020, 10:31 AM   #116
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I went about 6 years without having a manual as a DD or option to play with. Then i got motorcycles and thought damn I miss this and now I daily Drive a M2 6spd in traffic. I take it on trips, curvy back roads etc but i'm a manual "person" I guess. Now I am happy i got an automatic diesel this time around over my manual one, some situations its annoying to have a manual 2500 truck.


I'm extremely ADHD and never really enjoyed the paddle shifters because I need more things to do and i just like the purist aspect of it. I'm not a lazy person so automatics bore me pretty bad. I have ridden with friends in their GT3RS on the track and I get it.... the PDK is amazing. But I just want to keep improving my skills and I think 3 pedals is the way.
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      10-18-2020, 08:22 PM   #117
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I haven't read the previous 129 posts, so please forgive me if I'm repeating anything that's come before when I say "No, as I've been driving manuals since 1967."

Prior to my first car, I was driving "manual" motorcycles. Before that, I owned and drove a Briggs & Stratton scooter with a sidecar; it too was, of course, a manual. Edit: memory-jogging led to further investigation, and that revealed the scooter was in fact a Cushman and that it had a Briggs & Stratton engine in it.

Now, I've owned Tundras (read: no manuals available), and I did own a '64 Olds 98 (aka "the last real Oldsmobile" (that's an in-crowd thing, so don't worry about it)), but I've always preferred, had, and almost exclusively driven cars with manual transmissions.

I'm an old guy and freely admit that, yes, it's a personal thing. As time goes on, it's become more complicated to explain. Some fellows still mow their own lawns, wash their own cars, iron their own shirts, polish their own shoes (well, maybe not so much, anymore, but still), take out their own trash, etc., etc. It's in that context that some of us still enjoy determining when it's time to change gears in our transmissions while rolling down the road. For me, I can't imagine it any other way. Although...I did return a 330i loaner to the dealer yesterday, but...that would be a digression not worth following.
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      10-19-2020, 10:44 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Good post, but any chance you have a pic of that "Briggs & Stratton scooter with a sidecar". I Googled for it but couldn't find a reference to it. Would love to see one.
I'm afraid not. I looked for an image to post, too; and, like you, I couldn't find one.

I called it a Briggs & Stratton because that's who made the motor. My guess now is that the scooter had another manufacturer's name on it.

The sidecar was a good-sized box that had been used to hold bread for delivery to local stores. I think the bread came from the Boudin Bakery at 10th & Geary in San Francisco. The box had a top that I would remove so friends could catch a ride with me. It was a fun way to get around SF until the motor quit working.

Hold everything...I found it!!! The scooter was a Cushman, and this is what it looked like (except mine was red all over):

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      10-19-2020, 04:53 PM   #119
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Nope, don't miss it one bit...because both my GTI and 911 are both manual!

The wife's X3 is automatic and I'm just bored not having to work the gears.
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      10-20-2020, 02:21 AM   #120
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Briggs and Stratton motors are fitted in Garden Mowers in the UK
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      10-20-2020, 07:03 AM   #121
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I'd have no interest in an automatic with a fake clutch pedal. So really you're just simulating shifting gears, which misses the point completely.

Just give me one more good manual and I'll be happy enough. I can see getting something like an LCI G87 and just call it good. Seeing as many huge markets such as China and Great Britain aren't even getting a 6MT as an option on the M3/4, I think this is a hint that the end is near.
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      10-20-2020, 07:14 AM   #122
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Another only manual owner checking in. Will be a long time before I own anything without a clutch, only reason I will ditch the manuals is to go full electric.
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      10-20-2020, 06:11 PM   #123
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Yep.
It's why I bought the 328i.
My GMC is nice, but I miss heel toe driving. Fixed!
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      10-23-2020, 10:39 AM   #124
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I definitely do, 3 baby boys did me in and have been driving around in a VW atlas for a couple of years and will continue to do so until I can ditch at least one of my three car seats XD

Found myself on this forum because I took an interest in the G80 M3 (hopefully manual), let's see if the wife approves when the time comes lmao!
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      10-23-2020, 10:49 AM   #125
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I'd love to have a manual Touring but that option wasn't offered in the states. I definitely do not feel as engaged with the motor but I don't see a manual transmission conversion happening anytime soon.
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      10-23-2020, 12:43 PM   #126
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Manual all day, everyday, 2 wheels or 4 wheels.

Maybe when the day comes where I can no longer tie my own shoes, I'll switch to an electric automatic type of vehicle.
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      10-25-2020, 08:17 AM   #127
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Yes, miss my 2001 e46 BMW 325i 5MT. Maybe next car will be manual. Fortunately my dad has a Z4 in 6MT that I can drive occasionally
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      10-26-2020, 03:44 AM   #128
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Ended up getting a manual E39 530i for this very reason.
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      08-19-2022, 03:26 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinGS View Post
And if I primarily drove on twisty roads, I may miss it more. But I spend 95% of my time on regular roads, and then I don't miss the manual much at all.

But really, I'm waiting on some car company or tuner to create an actual dual manual/DCT transmission....where you actually have a stick shift sitting in the console along with 3 pedals for manual driving, but then you can slide the stick into "auto" gear mode where the car will do all the shifting for you, through some kind of a DCT transmission. And the clutch pedal/engagement would be locked out and even maybe retract out of the way.

No, maybe you wouldn't be able to do it on "the fly" while the car's moving, or even at a stoplight...maybe you'd need to do something while the engine is off to "switch" the characteristic of the transmission.

Sure, it may cost $15k to $20k, and only available on super cars, but if it works well and car enthusiasts want it, they could find a way to produce it for less for a more mid-level $100k type of a car like an M3 or Porsche 911.

Wouldn't this be neat, a true manual/DCT option within the same car, almost at the "press of a button"? The best of both worlds! Hey, we can dream, right?
Quoting myself... It's here, the combination manual/auto tranny! Woohoooo!

https://www.motor1.com/news/605437/k...-transmission/

Sure, it's going to cost at least $3.5 million to get this dual manual/auto tranny. But maybe now that all the manufacturers know it's readily functional, possibly we'll have Porsche, Ferrari or McLaren develop their own version of this tranny. And then this tech could possibly trickle down to BMW, just like so many other advanced technologies have. Or hec, maybe even Chevrolet will try to do this for a Vette.

I just hope the trickle-down occurs soon, while we still have ICE cars.

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      08-19-2022, 04:40 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinGS View Post
Quoting myself... It's here, the combination manual/auto tranny! Woohoooo!

https://www.motor1.com/news/605437/k...-transmission/

Sure, it's going to cost at least $3.5 million to get this dual manual/auto tranny. But maybe now that all the manufacturers know it's readily functional, possibly we'll have Porsche, Ferrari or McLaren develop their own version of this tranny. And then this tech could possibly trickle down to BMW, just like so many other advanced technologies have. Or hec, maybe even Chevrolet will try to do this for a Vette.

I just hope the trickle-down occurs soon, while we still have ICE cars.
Hybridized MT has been worked on for years by companies like Getrag.

CO2 efficiencies and DAT (Driver Assistance Technologies) are dictating the requirements for the mass market.

Integration of an e-clutch, 48V electric motor and shift actuation are all being considered and developed.

So yes, MT with a clutch and auto shift options are certainly on the cards, particularly at the lower end of the market, and lower outputs. Whether they will compete with AT for all integrated features we have to wait and see.

Kia are using a hybridized MT in some of their small engine models. Uses a drive by wire e-clutch, manual control when possible, but as I understand, over-ridden for functions like stop-start and in the mild hybrid for 48V motor integration.
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      08-22-2022, 06:35 AM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Sometimes but the sacrifice of not being able to road trip with it wasn't worth it.
I didn't know you couldn't leave your city if your car was a manual.
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      08-22-2022, 02:09 PM   #132
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Miss it? I've never had the chance. Been driving since '73, my first car was a '69 Beetle that already had 96k miles on it, and the 2nd gear synchro was trashed. So a buddy taught me how to double-clutch my downshifts so that it didn't matter. In the 49 years since, I've managed to never own an automatic of any kind. Yes, modern automatics may be "superior" on paper, but I have always preferred to row my own and involve my left foot as well.
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