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Technical Topics B58 6-Cylinder Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications JB4 on 2021 M340i

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      10-12-2020, 10:02 AM   #1
RoyB
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JB4 on 2021 M340i

I was able to update the firmware from my S58 JB4 to B58 and put the JB4 on my M340i. It made a decent difference on my X3M. I felt it more going backwards (taking it off and going to stock) vs putting it on.

So far I am not sure if it's working. I sent the logs for Map 2 and 3 to Terry and he said it all looks good. From what I can gather, it is sending more boost than stock.

However, I ran a quarter mile test on Draggy in Map3 and the results were less than impressive.

0-60 on the all seasons seemed to move the car really good. It peeled out a bit and launched pretty hard. I tried launch control but not sure if it activated since I did not see it on the dash. I find it hard to believe it would do a 3.8 0-60 without it though.

The 12.14 @ 112 seems like a stock time from the little bit of time slips I have seen posted. Running a conversion from 1/8 to 1/4 it's spot on- 7.8 1/8= 12.17 1/4. 112mph tells me the car isn't making much power over stock, if any.





I'll have to do some more testing to see if changing between maps makes any difference vs stock. Since I have a baseline 1/4 run I should be able to get away with doing 1/8 passes now, which is obviously much easier to accomplish.
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      10-12-2020, 10:45 AM   #2
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Map0 is your factory tuning so you'd do a dragy run on map0 to see what it runs stock, or just pop off the JB4 if you prefer. Takes 5 minutes.
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      10-13-2020, 11:07 AM   #3
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Comparing your time slips to other on different maps is not very helpful.
You need to compare your times on the different maps

As mentioned by fuel it, do a run with map 0
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      10-13-2020, 02:59 PM   #4
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I tested jb4 map0/1/2/3 on 93oc at my local strip and it performed same as stock in map 0/1, slower than stock maps 2/3. took it out.
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      10-13-2020, 04:05 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ls3c6 View Post
I tested jb4 map0/1/2/3 on 93oc at my local strip and it performed same as stock in map 0/1, slower than stock maps 2/3. took it out.
Are you seeing a boost increase in the logs?

I dropped to Map2 and I swear it doesn't feel any different than stock on the topend. I need to confirm with the track/draggy. My Michelins should arrive tomorrow, I have them scheduled Thursday 8am to be put on.
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      10-13-2020, 04:15 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyB View Post
Are you seeing a boost increase in the logs?

I dropped to Map2 and I swear it doesn't feel any different than stock on the topend. I need to confirm with the track/draggy. My Michelins should arrive tomorrow, I have them scheduled Thursday 8am to be put on.
Keep us updated on results.
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      10-13-2020, 05:23 PM   #7
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your slope is pretty high at your measurement thats why it is invalid. i did a correction over it and the result is 3.92 which is about 0.2 sec faster than a stock car.

for comparison
i did a 3.38 with 0.07% slope... so quiet perfect run

i have a mhd stage 2 costum map
highly recommend! those piggy backs are not competitive with classic tunes.

regards
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      10-13-2020, 05:29 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyB View Post
Are you seeing a boost increase in the logs?

I dropped to Map2 and I swear it doesn't feel any different than stock on the topend. I need to confirm with the track/draggy. My Michelins should arrive tomorrow, I have them scheduled Thursday 8am to be put on.
Boost is higher in logs but tcu limit is being reached or something, I ran the car at a real drag strip and have many many times. Jb4 does literally nothing for the m340i.
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      10-13-2020, 05:31 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john!smith View Post
your slope is pretty high at your measurement thats why it is invalid. i did a correction over it and the result is 3.92 which is about 0.2 sec faster than a stock car.

for comparison
i did a 3.38 with 0.07% slope... so quiet perfect run

i have a mhd stage 2 costum map
highly recommend! those piggy backs are not competitive with classic tunes.

regards
My car does 4.02-4.06 0-60 with valid dragy time after time BONE STOCK.
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      10-13-2020, 05:53 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ls3c6 View Post
My car does 4.02-4.06 0-60 with valid dragy time after time BONE STOCK.
thats good numbers... as you know, b58tü1 engines can spread a little bit up and down
so 4.02 is an example for a good one. 4.1 is also not bad for a stock one
more important are the times 60 to 120. the spreading here is higher.

Last edited by john!smith; 10-13-2020 at 06:06 PM..
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      10-14-2020, 07:41 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john!smith View Post
your slope is pretty high at your measurement thats why it is invalid. i did a correction over it and the result is 3.92 which is about 0.2 sec faster than a stock car.

for comparison
i did a 3.38 with 0.07% slope... so quiet perfect run

i have a mhd stage 2 costum map
highly recommend! those piggy backs are not competitive with classic tunes.

regards
Oddly enough the two runs were from the same pass. The 0-60 was invalid while the full 1/4 was not. I only did one run since I couldn't stop the car with the all season RFT on. I didn't want to risk starting on a more flat area and not being able to stop the car in a hurry if I had to. Which is why the MPSS are being put on Safety first.

As far as a full on tune being faster, yes, of course it will. I had the JB4 left from my X3M and it bolted right up, so why not. I felt a noticeable difference on that car. I find it odd that the M340i I don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ls3c6 View Post
Boost is higher in logs but tcu limit is being reached or something, I ran the car at a real drag strip and have many many times. Jb4 does literally nothing for the m340i.
This is what I am afraid of. I did ask Terry why the speed and 1/4 seemed the same as what a stock car would run even though I was seeing significantly more boost. He of course did not respond that to that question

I always thought the JB4 was a joke until my buddy put it on his Golf R. I had a real tune on mine and he was JB4. His car was just as fast as mine. I was DSG his was manual. I would kill him out of the hole due to launch control. Roll races were down to whoever got the jump though.
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      10-14-2020, 10:28 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyB View Post
Oddly enough the two runs were from the same pass. The 0-60 was invalid while the full 1/4 was not. I only did one run since I couldn't stop the car with the all season RFT on. I didn't want to risk starting on a more flat area and not being able to stop the car in a hurry if I had to. Which is why the MPSS are being put on Safety first.

As far as a full on tune being faster, yes, of course it will. I had the JB4 left from my X3M and it bolted right up, so why not. I felt a noticeable difference on that car. I find it odd that the M340i I don't.



This is what I am afraid of. I did ask Terry why the speed and 1/4 seemed the same as what a stock car would run even though I was seeing significantly more boost. He of course did not respond that to that question

I always thought the JB4 was a joke until my buddy put it on his Golf R. I had a real tune on mine and he was JB4. His car was just as fast as mine. I was DSG his was manual. I would kill him out of the hole due to launch control. Roll races were down to whoever got the jump though.
Yeah, is what it is with JB4... I emailed him several times about the boost dropping and that there had to be an issue with the F30 B58, he claimed everything I said was wrong and it wasn't dropping boost this or that... until he later confirmed F30 B58s were fuel limited.

With these I think it's stepping over the TCU torque output limit, i've noticed in stock form it only picks up 22-23mph on the back half and I can shift the car at 6000, 6500,7000rpm launch aggressively with or without launch control etc etc etc it still goes 12.08-12.20 each and every pass like clockwork heatsoaked, hot lapped, parked for 4hrs etc etc etc. The controls know what we're trying to do.
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      10-14-2020, 01:41 PM   #13
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I started a thread about this over on the N54 forum. It would be great if any of you guys with specific experience and data could chime in there about it. I figured the best way to learn more about this situation with JB4, +, etc with the M340i would be there. Hopefully Terry or one of the other Burger reps will chime in with some helpful info and not blow it off. I think there is definitely something going on with BMW's latest dme software outsmarting the way the JB4 works. You can make power on a dyno based on boost pressure going up but something is limiting this power from making it to the ground in real world application. Torque limiting or something to that effect must be undoing what the increase in boost pressure is doing. My car feels like it initially has some extra oomph and then it feels as though it flattens out to stocklike.
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      10-14-2020, 02:02 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonmon View Post
I started a thread about this over on the N54 forum. It would be great if any of you guys with specific experience and data could chime in there about it. I figured the best way to learn more about this situation with JB4, +, etc with the M340i would be there. Hopefully Terry or one of the other Burger reps will chime in with some helpful info and not blow it off. I think there is definitely something going on with BMW's latest dme software outsmarting the way the JB4 works. You can make power on a dyno based on boost pressure going up but something is limiting this power from making it to the ground in real world application. Torque limiting or something to that effect must be undoing what the increase in boost pressure is doing. My car feels like it initially has some extra oomph and then it feels as though it flattens out to stocklike.
i dont have jb4 on my m340i as its still stock but i do have experience with the stage 2 jb4 and can def agree with what you are saying

id say from my experience the 0 to 40 or 50 mph feels good as the torque gives you that g force pushing you back into the seat feeling but after that the mid range just dies off

if anything id say from 4gear on is weak

1st 2nd and 3rd is satisfying enough for the average driver imo

honestly, jb4 is great for people who live or drive in cities in my opinion bc it gives you that quick push from light to light

highway rolls are never the best and i am not sure why its like that

if jb4 could match the output mid and high range i think it would be a viable options long term

unfortunately i have no data to back this up other than what i have felt before using stage 2 jb4

going for a dme tune will always be better
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      10-14-2020, 04:28 PM   #15
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BMS has a G20 M340 for development and said their times improved from mid 12s to high 11s on crappy 91 octane fuel, trap speed gains of 4-5mph. They are waiting to do some E30 runs and then will post everything for comparison along with the logs.

If you're not picking up performance then there is likely a reason so look at your JB4 logs and carefully compare boost, timing, and fueling on map0 (Stock) vs whatever map you're running to see where you are coming up short.
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      10-14-2020, 07:01 PM   #16
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The dme likes to torque limit a lot, in the case of the jb4 your stuck with the torque limiting, with a flash tuners can help tone it down, this was my case with the jb4 and now with my mhd flash which I can clearly see in my logs
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      10-15-2020, 07:03 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ls3c6 View Post
Yeah, is what it is with JB4... I emailed him several times about the boost dropping and that there had to be an issue with the F30 B58, he claimed everything I said was wrong and it wasn't dropping boost this or that... until he later confirmed F30 B58s were fuel limited.

With these I think it's stepping over the TCU torque output limit, i've noticed in stock form it only picks up 22-23mph on the back half and I can shift the car at 6000, 6500,7000rpm launch aggressively with or without launch control etc etc etc it still goes 12.08-12.20 each and every pass like clockwork heatsoaked, hot lapped, parked for 4hrs etc etc etc. The controls know what we're trying to do.
Out of curiosity, did you hook up the EWG connector? I do not have mine hooked up since I need to see which one I need to use (since the S58 has 2). I am wondering if that makes a difference. Terry was eager for me to hook one up once I mentioned the slow mph. I wonder if that can tie everything together and possibly why those that don't have it hooked up have no difference in power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antec800 View Post
The dme likes to torque limit a lot, in the case of the jb4 your stuck with the torque limiting, with a flash tuners can help tone it down, this was my case with the jb4 and now with my mhd flash which I can clearly see in my logs
This very well could be happening. I wonder if it's something that can be coded out.
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      10-16-2020, 03:05 PM   #18
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Well, Fedex broke the straps on my tires and stole 2 of them in transit. I have 2 out of the 4 and it will now take 24 hours for Discount Tire to finish their investigation. That means I likely won't have resolution until Monday and by the time they ship 2 more tires, likely the end of next week.

Luckily I have video of the delivery should they try to deny they delivered 4.
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      10-16-2020, 07:13 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyB View Post
Well, Fedex broke the straps on my tires and stole 2 of them in transit. I have 2 out of the 4 and it will now take 24 hours for Discount Tire to finish their investigation. That means I likely won't have resolution until Monday and by the time they ship 2 more tires, likely the end of next week.

Luckily I have video of the delivery should they try to deny they delivered 4.
Slap those 2 on the rear and get some runs in lol.
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      10-17-2020, 07:13 AM   #20
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Slap those 2 on the rear and get some runs in lol.
I should. Discount Tire is now shipping 2 more tires. Estimated arrival date of Thursday. Of course I won't be here Friday to mount them and run since we are leaving for camping Friday.
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      10-19-2020, 07:17 PM   #21
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jb4 on older cars is fine. On newer cars its just not great. ECU is just to smart on B58. I have a Z4 M40i and the best way to tune it is MHD. Only problem my ECU has to be benched in order to work. Also a lease so thats out. I have jb plus on mine. Seems to make a little difference but who knows. My older Z4 with N54 was very noticeable with jb4. The biggest gains i ever had was another Z4 with the N20 on a Dinan tune. Wow!! Like a different car. The best route for us modern B58 owners is to bench ECU/DME and use MHD or something else that tunes the entire engine. I say bench because unless your on original software its just not possible. After much back and forth with MHD this is the only way for us USA B58 owners with Z4 or M340i. There website only refers to Euro tunes on Z4 and M340i. After much arguing with MHD they finally put an asterisk next to Z4 M40i and M340i. The asterisk means benching your DME.
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      10-23-2020, 10:57 AM   #22
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Here are some dragy runs from BMS' 2020 G20 M340i. Pretty solid gains JB4 only with more on the table I'm sure.

Quote:
Couple runs on our development 2020 M340. The car is RWD so traction limited, we drop boost 5psi in 1st gear to help get it off the line. Fuel is 91 craptane + 3-4 gallons of E85 (~E20). Roughly equivalent to 93 octane. Car is factory other than a JB4 and BMS intake.

Our best run on map0 (JB4 disabled) is 12.38@113mph, best run on map3 so far 11.96@120mph, both traction limited. 7mph trap speed gain JB4 only is solid though. There is probably more in it with map6 and a little more E85 mixed in so we'll keep at it!



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