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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions Dealership cannot fix my sunroof issue after multiple attempts - Lemon?

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      06-28-2020, 08:26 PM   #1
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Dealership cannot fix my sunroof issue after multiple attempts - Lemon?

I need your opinions. I bought an M340i back in October 2019 from Bmw of Maui and been having issues with the sunroof/sunroof shade.

20 days after purchasing my car, the power sunshade wouldn't close. I brought it in and the tech verified my concern. They took down the headliner and manually closed the sunshade and reinitialized the system.

2 days later, same thing happened with the sunshade and was verified again. They also noted that when closing the sunroof glass, it bounced back because of the wind deflector. That was fixed and reinitialized again.

The sunshade wouldn't close again and this went on for at least 5 times. I have recorded videos documenting this. Called the call center and was told to make an appointment since they were busy and it starts to work when I bring it in. However, now the sunroof glass sometimes wouldn't open or even close at one point. After a few hours it would start to work.

Now being an intermittent problem, they agree to just have me roll in when it happens. I brought it in a month ago for the sunroof glass not opening the sunshade not closing . When I got to the dealership, it worked fine. I ended up leaving the dealership because they can't work on something that they can't verify.

It happened a week ago and I brought it in and dropped it off in the morning before they opened. The tech could not verify concern but they reinitialized the system again and sent me on my way.

Before I contact BMW NA about a possible buyback or calling my states consumer affairs about the lemon law process, does anyone here feel that my case is strong enough for this? I'm just concerned that my sunroof won't close one day on the weekend and not get the car in the shop. The sunshade not closing is getting annoying since it's summer and it's hot here.

Your thoughts are appreciated.
Thank you!
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      06-28-2020, 09:18 PM   #2
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Very simply, no it would be extremely difficult to qualify as a lemon because right now you have no way to prove that it was malfunctioning various times with attempts to fix by the dealer.

The dealer hasn't made any real attempts to fix the issue at this time because they couldn't verify the issue. If the issue has been fixed several times by the dealer, and caused your vehicle to be in the shop for many number of days, I think you'd have a better shot.

I would try to gather as much evidence of it when it malfunctions (videos, photos, etc) and then provide that data to you SA and leave it with the shop foreman to investigate the issue or replace the whole thing. If it happens again after they've said they fixed it, repeat the process and document everything.

Edit:
Make sure you notify the dealer in your next visit that reinitializing the system didn't fix your issue and to make sure that your SA writes it into the work authorization form that this is the Xth visit and previous attempts did not fix the issue. Some of the workers are lazy as hell and attempts the same fix over and over because they fail to read past service history.
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      06-28-2020, 09:30 PM   #3
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Would them initializing the system be considered a repair? I know for sure they’ve done this at least 4 times.
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      06-28-2020, 09:46 PM   #4
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I appreciate your input. Will definitely have that noted next time it happens. Thank you!
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      06-28-2020, 10:19 PM   #5
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I believe most lemon laws are if the dealer has attempted to fix it twice, they have one final attempt. At that time, it either has to be fixed, or they have to lemon it. I wouldn't bring it up with BMW NA, send your letter invoking the lemon law to the dealer, ask for a response in 10 days.
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      06-28-2020, 10:27 PM   #6
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Thanks for your input. The sales manager is totally aware too. Last week when I went in and told him about it, they commented “sounds like a BMW”. I wasn’t offended by it because I had an F80 that had issues with friction rings and idrive issues too lol
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      06-28-2020, 11:34 PM   #7
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I don't think that's how it works - lemon laws are amount of time spent out of service for repair - I think it's something like 30% of ownership within X amount of time? I don't know the specifics but I have a friend who once his car had been at the dealer for I think it was a month then he was able to lemon it.
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      06-28-2020, 11:38 PM   #8
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This is the Hawaii New Car Lemon Law

At least one of the following happened within the Lemon Law Rights Period:
 the same nonconformity was subject to exam or repair at least three times and the problem continued; or
 the nonconformity was subject to exam or repair at least once but continued to be a nonconformity likely to cause death or serious bodily injury if the car is driven; or
 the car was subject to examination or repair for one or more nonconformities for a total of 30 or more business days.
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      06-29-2020, 05:49 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtadeo92 View Post
This is the Hawaii New Car Lemon Law

At least one of the following happened within the Lemon Law Rights Period:
 the same nonconformity was subject to exam or repair at least three times and the problem continued; or
 the nonconformity was subject to exam or repair at least once but continued to be a nonconformity likely to cause death or serious bodily injury if the car is driven; or
 the car was subject to examination or repair for one or more nonconformities for a total of 30 or more business days.
@wtadeo92 I'm in a different country but had essentially the identical issue you have described. Same process re reprogram/reinitialise and problem recurring. Eventually the reason given was a manufacturing fault on one side of the rubber seal that kept activating the anti trap mechanism. It was replaced under warranty without a peep of protest. I don't know any details of your circumstances but you shouldn't need to evoke lemon law to get something like this rectified?
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      06-29-2020, 06:34 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warrenw View Post
I don't think that's how it works - lemon laws are amount of time spent out of service for repair - I think it's something like 30% of ownership within X amount of time? I don't know the specifics but I have a friend who once his car had been at the dealer for I think it was a month then he was able to lemon it.
That's how it is in Virginia. If your new car is in the shop for 30+ days during your first 12 months of ownership, the manufacturer is required to buy it back at 100% of your purchase price (no depreciation).
I went through this process with a Japanese manufacturer a few years ago. I won't say their name because I agreed to sign an NDA as part of the buyback process. Looking back, I probably could have rejected the NDA but at the time I was just happy to get rid of the car and get my money back.
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      06-29-2020, 10:33 AM   #11
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https://cca.hawaii.gov/rico/files/20...-Lemon-Law.pdf
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      06-29-2020, 06:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownRoyal79 View Post
That's how it is in Virginia. If your new car is in the shop for 30+ days during your first 12 months of ownership, the manufacturer is required to buy it back at 100% of your purchase price (no depreciation).
I went through this process with a Japanese manufacturer a few years ago. I won't say their name because I agreed to sign an NDA as part of the buyback process. Looking back, I probably could have rejected the NDA but at the time I was just happy to get rid of the car and get my money back.
Sorry your Nissan didn't treat you well

(Just my guess haha)
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      07-04-2020, 04:51 PM   #13
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I think they will 1st attempt to replace the entire sunroof assembly before giving you a brand new car. Once the headliner is dropped, it is a pretty easy task.
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      07-13-2020, 12:26 AM   #14
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Update. I contacted BMWNA for help. Since it’s an intermittent problem and couldn’t be diagnosed, they ordered the sunroof/shade motor and switch for me. On July 7th, my sunroof was stuck open in the middle of the night and I filmed it Just in case it started working the next morning. Thankfully it remained unresponsive until I got to the bmw dealer and the tech and service advisor verified that it won’t close. Just have to wait til parts get here from Germany because no one has these anywhere in the states. I’m hoping this fixes the problem because I’m kinda tired of bringing it in. Good thing I work 2 blocks away selling Lexus and Subaru’s lol
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      07-14-2020, 12:27 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtadeo92 View Post
Update. I contacted BMWNA for help. Since it’s an intermittent problem and couldn’t be diagnosed, they ordered the sunroof/shade motor and switch for me. On July 7th, my sunroof was stuck open in the middle of the night and I filmed it Just in case it started working the next morning. Thankfully it remained unresponsive until I got to the bmw dealer and the tech and service advisor verified that it won’t close. Just have to wait til parts get here from Germany because no one has these anywhere in the states. I’m hoping this fixes the problem because I’m kinda tired of bringing it in. Good thing I work 2 blocks away selling Lexus and Subaru’s lol
All's well that ends well. No machine is 100% perfect, and while a drag, if the replacement works great, absolutely not a huge deal, especially if the rest of the car is great. Would be a little crazy/nonsensical to lemon a car over something as small as a moonroof, and that is a fairly simple portion of the car, I am sure it will be made right.
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      07-15-2020, 03:24 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtadeo92 View Post
Update. I contacted BMWNA for help. Since it’s an intermittent problem and couldn’t be diagnosed, they ordered the sunroof/shade motor and switch for me. On July 7th, my sunroof was stuck open in the middle of the night and I filmed it Just in case it started working the next morning. Thankfully it remained unresponsive until I got to the bmw dealer and the tech and service advisor verified that it won’t close. Just have to wait til parts get here from Germany because no one has these anywhere in the states. I’m hoping this fixes the problem because I’m kinda tired of bringing it in. Good thing I work 2 blocks away selling Lexus and Subaru’s lol
Open a claim with BMWNA and keep working with your dealer. Lemon law isn't as cut and dry as most think and you'll usually get further by cooperating with the manufacturer and making reasonable demands. I was out of a car for almost 45 days over the course of less than 6 months and it all ended well for me by cooperating with the manufacturer, following their recommendations and when things ultimately failed they made it right. Can't go too much further as others have stated there is a NDA in place but heed the above and document everything. Hope they get you straightened out.
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      09-16-2020, 01:53 AM   #17
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Thank you folks for your input. My car ended up having issues starting up and dying out. The Gauge cluster also went completely blank and had my salesman verify. That was replaced and then the head up display stopped working and the new gauge cluster wasn’t operating properly. I have been in a loaner going on 4 weeks because they literally have to produce replacement parts for it then send it to bmw in Germany and finally to my dealer(per the dealer) , but bmw na is finally working with me on a replacement. I guess I just got a bad one. Lol
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      09-16-2020, 10:25 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtadeo92 View Post
Thank you folks for your input. My car ended up having issues starting up and dying out. The Gauge cluster also went completely blank and had my salesman verify. That was replaced and then the head up display stopped working and the new gauge cluster wasn’t operating properly. I have been in a loaner going on 4 weeks because they literally have to produce replacement parts for it then send it to bmw in Germany and finally to my dealer(per the dealer) , but bmw na is finally working with me on a replacement. I guess I just got a bad one. Lol
If you mean that BMW is going to buy your car back, congratulations. They did that for me on my prior car. Once they agreed BMW was terrific. A fair charge for usage. BMW even waited for me to order a replacement made to my order.
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      09-16-2020, 10:44 AM   #19
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I would start with talking to the GM and seeing if you can get one of the payments covered by BMW. Then once you do that you can bring up the issues with him/her and see what your options are.
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      09-17-2020, 11:14 PM   #20
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You have two options. Work with the manufacturer or meet with a lemon law attorney.


If you are absolutely ready to move on from the car, I recommend you see a local lemon law lawyer and let them review your repairs orders and proceed accordingly. If you don't want to get rid of the car, but the car does qualify as a lemon, and if you cooperate with the manufacturer, they may heavily incentivize you to keep the vehicle till lease maturity or offer a large incentive for to continue to own the car.

My experience comes from working for a Manufacturer and service team. I've managed a handful of lemon law buybacks from the manufacturer's side.

How most lemon laws work:
In order to qualify for lemon law, the vehicle must either spend 30 days in service within 18 months or the same exact issue has occurred 3 times within that period and the dealer has not been able to rectify the concern.

If the above information is confirmed, the next step is to send an official letter to the manufacturer requesting buyback. The manufacturer then has 30 to 40 days to respond or it's an automatic buyback. Plus for every day they do not respond you are entitled to additional compensation - the worst-case scenario.

If the manufacturer does accept the buyback(they always do, unless your lawyer is wrong), they will owe every cent that you spent on the car including interest on the loan and registration. In addition, they must cover your lawyer fees(Most lawyers will not take a case if the car does not qualify, so don't worry). In addition, the value of the vehicle is based on the first in-service date(in your case, all of the money).

Hope this helps.
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      12-08-2020, 12:39 AM   #21
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Thought I’d open this thread up again. So BMW will be paying my car off when my new car comes in(sometime in March). I got in the car tonight and long story short, my passenger headlight is totally out. Blinkers, low/hi beam, and all of these malfunction lights came on. Has anyone been in this situation where bmw is ordering you a new car and you’re driving around in your current problem car but it’s still getting random issues as you wait? Do you think bmw would put me in a loaner for 3 months?
Thanks!
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      12-08-2020, 12:41 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtadeo92 View Post
Thought I’d open this thread up again. So BMW will be paying my car off when my new car comes in(sometime in March). I got in the car tonight and long story short, my passenger headlight is totally out. Blinkers, low/hi beam, and all of these malfunction lights came on. Has anyone been in this situation where bmw is ordering you a new car and you’re driving around in your current problem car but it’s still getting random issues as you wait? Do you think bmw would put me in a loaner for 3 months?
Thanks!
Yes I had a paint issue with a 550 (e60) they ordered me a new car (well it was actually transferred from another dealer out of state) in the meantime (several weeks) I drove the car that was going to be returned
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