[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by clbmw

M or not it's all marketing. That's how it works. That's why BMW is incredibly successful and profitable.

The biggest marketing trick is convincing average Joe he needs a saloon car that doubles as a pseudo-racing car. Whether that has an M3 or M340i badge makes no odds other than profitability and how likely they are to spend more or the next model up next time. (Yes I know they are completely different cars, I am focusing on the process not the content)

I know all this, but it's still just a cheap marketing trick that frankly bastardizes and dilutes the famed ///M brand.

Anyhow, I'm more concerned about how this thing will turn out overall. Will it be absolutely dull and forgettable in every metric like the new 7-series is? Or will it actually drive the way a BMW should and look better inside and out than the competition like it always used to.

I'll place my money on the former unfortunately.

[adc]

Originally Posted by classyfast

Lol whole bunch of late salty ass people here....hey guys bmw sold out and lost it's true soul about 10 years ago!!

Today if you want that "real BMW feel" you need an e30/e36/e46 or an e9x M or 335is. Case closed.

Yeah right.

I’ve had all of the above and disagree with the blanket statement.

Each generation had its pros and cons. Compared to the E36/E46, the E90 non-M had wooly steering that was dipped in molasses (horrible sticky feel) and the M3 had the super light servotronic standard. E90 non-M handling also too soft for the weight of the car, M3 was a good handling car but the E46 sport/ZHP was better in some respects (steering feel for example, less weight).

No sense using rosy glasses, to pick only the best bits to remember the past.


As far as feeling “like a BMW”, the F80 is up there and then some: manly, brutal, quick, playful, and the best handling stock of any BMW I’ve tried to date. Doesn’t sound very good, but it’s a badass car.

[Germanauto]

^I respectfully disagree. The E90 and the lot still had an excellent feel for the road and were heads and shoulders above the competition in all areas.

There's no doubt that BMW's driving dynamics took a severe nosedive ever since the release of the E89 Z4 and F10 5er around 2009/2010. Those models began the domino effect of the modern day "numb" feeling BMWs. Every new model has felt far less driver-focused than its predecessor. These cars honestly feel like they belong to a different brand altogether.

The F80, while a very solid vehicle relative to the competition, definitely feels more isolated/numb than the E90 and prior generations.

[antzcrashing]

Thanks audi for ruining bmw. You knew they would follow you down the rabbit hole

[Eddien123]

Originally Posted by adc

Yeah right.

I’ve had all of the above and disagree with the blanket statement.

Each generation had its pros and cons. Compared to the E36/E46, the E90 non-M had wooly steering that was dipped in molasses (horrible sticky feel) and the M3 had the super light servotronic standard. E90 non-M handling also too soft for the weight of the car, M3 was a good handling car but the E46 sport/ZHP was better in some respects (steering feel for example, less weight).

No sense using rosy glasses, to pick only the best bits to remember the past.


As far as feeling “like a BMW”, the F80 is up there and then some: manly, brutal, quick, playful, and the best handling stock of any BMW I’ve tried to date. Doesn’t sound very good, but it’s a badass car.

We all have our opinions. E90 is by far the best steering and the f80 felt like a tuned 335. Steering was a complete joke and car was stiff for the sake of being stiff. It was just not a good experience compared to the e92 m3

[adc]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

^I respectfully disagree. The E90 and the lot still had an excellent feel for the road and were heads and shoulders above the competition in all areas.

There's no doubt that BMW's driving dynamics took a severe nosedive ever since the release of the E89 Z4 and F10 5er around 2009/2010. Those models began the domino effect of the modern day "numb" feeling BMWs. Every new model has felt far less driver-focused than its predecessor. These cars honestly feel like they belong to a different brand altogether.

The F80, while a very solid vehicle relative to the competition, definitely feels more isolated/numb than the E90 and prior generations.

Au contraire, the F80 feels more alive than the E90, and it all comes down to the better turn-in and the engine torque. I’ve owned the E90 for 6 years and tracked it quite a bit too... I guess we agree to disagree.

The E92 335i stick Sport I had before the M3 was a handling dog, with that horrible steering, mushy suspension, bad ride quality on runflats and an open diff. It was an engine looking for a better chassis, which it may or may not have gotten in the 335is. I still liked the M better than all the non-M variations.

The E46 was interesting - the M3 had an incredible engine and a quick reacting chassis but very little steering feel, so for that generation the ZHP was the pick of the bunch for steering feel and perfectly street-tuned chassis (M3 damping was also a bit iffy IMO). But the M had that sweet sweet engine, so there you go, pros and cons.

And so on with the E36...


I agree that the regular current 3 series has been softened up considerably compared to previous. I guess it’s a different world today, even Porsche has calmed down the feel of their cars by an incredible amount. Today’s 991 feels like a sedan compared to a corresponding 997, which was positively brimming with feel and energy.

Could BMW be tweaking the sportiness level of their current bread and butter models up without losing any sales? Probably IMO, but they aren’t asking for my opinion these days.


So yeah guys, feel free to desert the brand in protest, maybe BMW will revert course. Not sure where you’d go to though. Lexus IS maybe?

[JRocker3]

Wow... maybe '18 340i 6mt value will go up!!

[adc]

Originally Posted by Eddien123

We all have our opinions. E90 is by far the best steering and the f80 felt like a tuned 335. Steering was a complete joke and car was stiff for the sake of being stiff. It was just not a good experience compared to the e92 m3

You got it all wrong - the F80 is stiff for the sake of performance. Which is why it’s so much better on track than the E90.

Nothing wrong with liking the E90. I loved mine. But I moved on to a better performance platform.

[JMon]

You know they really want to call the M340 the M345M

The M340 Sounds like it will be a great car regardless....

[Eddien123]

Originally Posted by adc

You got it all wrong - the F80 is stiff for the sake of performance. Which is why it’s so much better on track than the E90.

Nothing wrong with liking the E90. I loved mine. But I moved on to a better performance platform.

To each their own. In reality (modern) M3s are DDs first and track cars second. The F80 was insanely rough even on soft settings and the engine note is just terrible. F80 was noticeably bigger and the front end doesn't look as good. (F80 rear looks far better than e90).

Honestly the DCT in the f80 was greats and the low end torque made it a lot of fun without drawing too much attention to it. after driving both I was convinced the E92 m3 was going to be my next car. I wish I liked the f80 since it's newer and has more tech to it but I can't get over that engine and design.

I'm glad you're liking your f80 though. I've heard mixed feelings about people who have moved up to the newer cars.

[SlickShift]

I wonder if there's any chance the 440i coupe will have a RWD or manual option. I think the new ZF8 is amazing - it convinced me to switch to an auto after driving 3 pedal BMWs for the last 11 years - but it would be nice to know I could get a new (non-M) BMW with a stick if I ever wanted to.

[DML]

Originally Posted by jonfigueiredo1

Looks like I'll be keeping my 17 340 then. No rwd or 6 speed manual trans ?? BMW is turning into every other manufacture. Just saw the new x2 at my dealer yesterday. Yea it looks good but it's also coming with an option for fwd. Death of auto enthusiasts if you ask me

Marry that thing, the Bimmer future looks bleak?

[stylinexpat]

Originally Posted by richardth06

Damn the new 340 has 380hp that's more than the current m2 ... pretty interesting does that mean newer M2 will get more power?

Yeah, that is a lot of power. Old M5 back in the days had a V8 with 400 HP now the 340i has almost the same.

The new 340d though is putting down some good numbers also. That should be great for everyday driving. I think fuel economy on that new Diesel is probably not so bad either

[SoCali E36]

Is this real life?

[JMon]

Originally Posted by SoCali E36

Is this real life?

Sure is.
Hey I heard bmw was going to restart production of E36 M3 to cash in.
But only with an auto.

[SoCali E36]

Originally Posted by JMon

Sure is.
Hey I heard bmw was going to restart production of E36 M3 to cash in.
But only with an auto.

Probably auto and xdrive only.

[wknddrivr]

Originally Posted by matowi

It may come as a surprise to some that not every BMW buyer lives in SoCal . Or any sunny and dry place for that matter. Where I live, I'm ultra happy to rely on 4 wheel drive in my 370+ BHP car. With only rear wheels being powered, I'd need to use other means of transportation on more than 50% of days in a year (rain, snow)

I've driven RWD cars through mountain passes in snow many times to go skiing. With proper winter tires and DSC they do quite well. Add a limited slip differential and the gap between it and AWD becomes next to nill on public roads

[wknddrivr]

Originally Posted by goj

I love my manual transmission car, unfortunately my commute has me already sold on an auto for my next car as sad as it may be.

M340i seems to be the obvious pick for me. Unless I can afford the M3

I commuted with a MT car in LA for a year. I was forced into a 5 series to get the multi-contour seats, so I'm driving auto now and I miss the MT even with the horrific traffic. Shifting is muscle memory for me. Even though the traffic is horrendous, the shifting is not burdensome.

Auto is definitely not the obvious pick just due to traffic.

I still drive my E36 M3 5MT to work once in a while and the MT doesn't bother me one bit. If my back could handle the seats in that car on a regular basis, I'd rather drive that than my G30 5 series which is more bland than a Mazda.

BMW truly is watering down their brand to the point of being indistinguishable from anyone else

[RedGT3RS]

Originally Posted by adc

Yeah right.

I’ve had all of the above and disagree with the blanket statement.

Each generation had its pros and cons. Compared to the E36/E46, the E90 non-M had wooly steering that was dipped in molasses (horrible sticky feel) and the M3 had the super light servotronic standard. E90 non-M handling also too soft for the weight of the car, M3 was a good handling car but the E46 sport/ZHP was better in some respects (steering feel for example, less weight).

No sense using rosy glasses, to pick only the best bits to remember the past.


As far as feeling “like a BMW”, the F80 is up there and then some: manly, brutal, quick, playful, and the best handling stock of any BMW I’ve tried to date. Doesn’t sound very good, but it’s a badass car.

Lol I don’t know, I’ve owned those cars as well as gt3’s and lots of other Porsche’s, etc and the e9x steered really well, talking about the 335i

The Current m2 and M3 are no match to the 1m and the e9x M3 is debatable

Overall newer BMW’s aren’t as connected as the older ones

[wknddrivr]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

No way it actually loses weight, like for like. They'll add in new features to offset any body in white weight loss. We'll be lucky if the G20 M340i is under 3,800 lbs.

The G30 5 series lost a decent amount of weight over the F10 despite adding features.

[RedGT3RS]

Originally Posted by adc

You got it all wrong - the F80 is stiff for the sake of performance. Which is why it’s so much better on track than the E90.

Nothing wrong with liking the E90. I loved mine. But I moved on to a better performance platform.

Just jump to the new upcoming gt4 and leave bmw behind 😂

Or if you don’t give a rats ass about being in the shop all the time get the Alfa Quadrifoglio

[goj]

Originally Posted by ssquared

I commuted with a MT car in LA for a year. I was forced into a 5 series to get the multi-contour seats, so I'm driving auto now and I miss the MT even with the horrific traffic. Shifting is muscle memory for me. Even though the traffic is horrendous, the shifting is not burdensome.

Auto is definitely not the obvious pick just due to traffic.

I still drive my E36 M3 5MT to work once in a while and the MT doesn't bother me one bit. If my back could handle the seats in that car on a regular basis, I'd rather drive that than my G30 5 series which is more bland than a Mazda.

BMW truly is watering down their brand to the point of being indistinguishable from anyone else

I'm not getting forced into a 5 series. I recognize that I love driving a manual but I will not lose any sleep over driving auto.