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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G80 M3 / G82 M4 Forum (2019+) Marquardt: BMW “Very Likely” to Go With M4 for Next GT3 Car

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      10-11-2019, 11:24 AM   #1
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Marquardt: BMW “Very Likely” to Go With M4 for Next GT3 Car

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This article is actually a few months old, but it slipped past the mainstream media (and me too). As the article mentions, BMW's current GT3 car is the M6 GT3, which is used in race series around the world, including in the GTD class of the IMSA Weathertech Sportscar Championship in the US. But the M6 is now out of production, and its spiritual successor, the M8, is quite large. Recall that, prior to the M6 GT3, the E89 Z4 GT3 was BMW's factory race car for this class.

He comments about a successor to the current M4 GT4 as well, adding that it could also be based on the new M4, or they could switch to the M2.

https://sportscar365.com/industry/ma...-next-gt3-car/

Quote:
BMW is “very likely to go in the area” of the M4 for its next GT3 race car, according to its motorsport director Jens Marquardt.

Sportscar365 reported back in February that BMW is working on a successor to the two-time Total 24 Hours of Spa-winning M6 GT3, but Marquardt wouldn’t specify which model was being considered.

The German manufacturer now appears to have narrowed its options, with the upcoming refresh of the M4 emerging as the preferred replacement.

“At the moment, we have the first draft of the regulations, which is obviously what is needed,” Marquardt told Sportscar365.

“It will be in place from 2022 onwards, so we are studying. The 6 Series is no longer available and I think the M8 is too big a car, so I would think that we would go smaller.

“The final decision is not yet there, but I think it would probably, very likely, go into the area of the new M4.”

BMW has been pushing for the next set of GT3 regulations to allow production platforms offering a four-door model, which would make the M4 and associated cars eligible.

The new 4 Series range will be based on BMW’s CLAR platform, currently the underpinnings for several of its models including the 3, 5, 7 and 8 Series, the new Z4 and Toyota Supra, and most of its X-range SUVs.

With the manufacturer ultimately aiming to base all of its cars on one of two platforms, building a GT3 car that doesn’t share a platform with a four-door model is near impossible.

Marquardt said that the rules change has been included on the draft regulations which are being moulded by FIA-held technical working group meetings in Geneva.

“[2022] is when we aim to have the car available to our customers,” he said.

“We are in the late stages of the concept phase now, discussing with the FIA all our concepts to make sure that we don’t encounter problems that we encountered in the past with other models that we have developed.

“With the regulations, as they were done for now, we would not have been able to homologate our car because all our cars are based on platforms that are shared between various ranges.

“You basically have to use [common] platform and toolbox systems. I think you have to find a way to make those cars eligible, or you will only have small numbers of [GT3] cars [on the grid].”

Marquardt said that BMW is “very far away” from starting an on-track test schedule for its next GT3 contender.

“We are really more into the technical studies,” he confirmed.

“From our experience with the M8, you’re better off getting everything agreed preliminarily and discussed openly with the FIA, in that respect.

“We [need to] get everything sorted out in a conceptual state before we actually go into any hardware.

“The end of this year, beginning of next year, is probably when we want to have something rolling on four wheels.”

BMW Not Pursuing Identical GT3, GT4 Cars

Marquardt stressed that BMW plans to continue developing separate GT3 and GT4 platforms, going against recent business models employed by other OEMs such as Audi, Aston Martin and Mercedes-AMG.

While the M4 serves as the manufacturer’s current GT4 product, it will have been replaced by a new model by the time BMW’s next GT3 racer arrives.

When asked about having a convertible GT3/GT4 package, Marquardt said: “I don’t see how they should be linked together.

“I know some have done it like that, but you have to be really careful that you’re not creating a GT4 as a GT3-like car, which can be very expensive,” he explained.

“We all know that GT3 cars have become fairly expensive. I think GT4 should be much more affordable, and therefore I wouldn’t really tie them together.

“We will have to see what would then make sense for a GT4 successor. That could be based on the M4, but it could also be based on the M2. Powertrain-wise, they are very similar.

“I think we have to discuss with our colleagues from M, because those cars are very much supporting the sporty brand, and obviously we want to showcase that model range.”
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      10-11-2019, 03:15 PM   #2
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      10-16-2019, 11:14 AM   #3
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Should have been the M4 in the first place, a far more nimble car.
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      10-16-2019, 11:24 AM   #4
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Yes... the M8 has not done well in IMSA or the European Lemans series.

Calvin Fish actually stated on air the M8 will be replaced by the M4 in the GTLM class... I can't wait to see what it looks like 😍

The M8 is just too big! I'm a BMW loyalist, but I must say it's my least favorite.
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      10-16-2019, 11:45 AM   #5
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makes sense. Its the right size, might yield some great results. Agree with others M8 seems to large.
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      10-16-2019, 12:11 PM   #6
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Even BMW thinks their M cars are getting too big and heavy!
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      10-16-2019, 12:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sahajesh View Post
Should have been the M4 in the first place, a far more nimble car.
I believe a big factor was the brand new S55 engine (the M6 GT3 began development in 2015, when the M4 was still fairly new). BMW Motorsport probably deemed it a risk since it was unproven and only 3L in displacement which would mean high boost to achieve competitive power output. And I believe rules changes would have made the prospect for instead transplanting, for example, the S63 less appealing (not to mention it would have sent a certain negative message about the S55 to BMW Performance fans).

Fast forward to today, and they've had a chance to prove out the S55 in the F82 M4 GT4. Although they're now faced with yet another new engine, the S58, it has no doubt been designed with lessons learned from the S55, so it is perhaps as much an evolution of the S55 as it is a high performance version of the B58.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mindcontrollerone View Post
Calvin Fish actually stated on air the M8 will be replaced by the M4 in the GTLM class... I can't wait to see what it looks like.
That would mean there is the potential for three distinct G82 M4 factory race cars - GT4, GT3 (/GTD), and GTLM.
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      10-16-2019, 12:27 PM   #8
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So did he just confirm the next gen M2 will get the S58 from the start?

Quote:
“We will have to see what would then make sense for a GT4 successor. That could be based on the M4, but it could also be based on the M2. Powertrain-wise, they are very similar."
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      10-16-2019, 12:48 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
So did he just confirm the next gen M2 will get the S58 from the start?
He may have been speaking in general terms. They share the same engine today, and since he knows that is something the interviewer/audience can relate to, he may have merely had that fact in mind.

That said, I think it is very reasonable that the G87 M2 and M2 Competition could both use the S58.
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      10-16-2019, 03:42 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mindcontrollerone View Post
Yes... the M8 has not done well in IMSA or the European Lemans series.

Calvin Fish actually stated on air the M8 will be replaced by the M4 in the GTLM class... I can't wait to see what it looks like 😍

The M8 is just too big! I'm a BMW loyalist, but I must say it's my least favorite.
Umm M6 just won Petit Le Mans this weekend and M8 just won Daytona this year. I'm not sure anything aside Le Mans would have been a better result for BMW racing. M6 has also been very successful at Nurburgring and Spa. It's been a fantastic car. M8 perhaps is BMWs most famous race car since F1.

That said M4 really ought to have a racing counterpart so an M8 GTE and M4 GT3 and M2 GT4 makes perfect sense from a marketing sense. Big expensive car fastest class. M4 in the middle and GT4 With the M2.

M6 behind the scenes was a very complicated and expensive GT3 car and in a competitive world of GT3 it wasn't going to outsell the Mercedes or Lambo offering.
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      10-16-2019, 03:48 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellrotm View Post
So did he just confirm the next gen M2 will get the S58 from the start?

Quote:
“We will have to see what would then make sense for a GT4 successor. That could be based on the M4, but it could also be based on the M2. Powertrain-wise, they are very similar."
I'm just guessing it could be a Z4 using the P65 situation.

The rules only specify that the engine be for sale on a car in the li line up so an M2 GT4 could use an S63 if they wanted and they could throw a B48 in the M2.

It make sense to use the M4 engine, the M2 vanilla was sort of an afterthought quick solution rather than planned. Since M2 has been ultra popular they hopefully will have a proper engine from the get go.

I'd really like to see their new high revving 4 cylinder with 500 hp and 40k mike shelf life personally. Would be unique and fun and good for the M2 to not be a fat small M4 next generation.
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      10-16-2019, 05:20 PM   #12
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I have a feeling that BMW will design the next GT car to more easily switch between GT3 and GTE regulations the way Ferrari and Aston Martin currently do it. I would love to see the return of the M4/M3 as BMW's top tier GT racecar. I think the M8 is too large a car and it was a mistake for them to go with this platform to begin with.
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      10-16-2019, 07:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbar View Post
Even BMW thinks their M cars are getting too big and heavy!
That has taken them along time to figure that out!
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      10-16-2019, 11:26 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepingBMW View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mindcontrollerone View Post
Yes... the M8 has not done well in IMSA or the European Lemans series.

Calvin Fish actually stated on air the M8 will be replaced by the M4 in the GTLM class... I can't wait to see what it looks like 😍

The M8 is just too big! I'm a BMW loyalist, but I must say it's my least favorite.
Umm M6 just won Petit Le Mans this weekend and M8 just won Daytona this year. I'm not sure anything aside Le Mans would have been a better result for BMW racing. M6 has also been very successful at Nurburgring and Spa. It's been a fantastic car. M8 perhaps is BMWs most famous race car since F1.

That said M4 really ought to have a racing counterpart so an M8 GTE and M4 GT3 and M2 GT4 makes perfect sense from a marketing sense. Big expensive car fastest class. M4 in the middle and GT4 With the M2.

M6 behind the scenes was a very complicated and expensive GT3 car and in a competitive world of GT3 it wasn't going to outsell the Mercedes or Lambo offering.
The M6 has been a good race car throughout the years... has won several championships and major races around the globe. Bill Auberlens win at petit was epic!

The M8 hasn't been so lucky!
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      10-17-2019, 01:13 PM   #15
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I believe the dimensions of the M8 are only carry a potential aero consequence but that could be good or bad. The weight is inconsequential because they're regulated by balance of power per the series rules. BMW advertises it as only weighing 2700lbs which compared to the street version is like losing a whole other car! Their results have been up and down with this car, especially in IMSA but I don't think it's the car's fault per se. The competition in this category is extremely tough! Around the same time as this being released you had an extremely dominant C7.r fully supported by Chevrolet with focus on winning in America and LeMans. Ford released the GT in 2016 for racing with their full weight behind 2 U.S. cars and 2 international cars. Porsche woke up and updated the RSR in 2016 and it was no slouch. Just those 3 competitors with 2 cars each in any given race makes it very difficult for BMW to dominate a series. The M6 was a turd admittedly and couldn't follow up the success of the Z4 GT3/4 chassis but again, Ford GT350 GT4/Cayman GT4/AMG GT3-4/R8 GT3-4/Huracan GT3-4 were all VERY good competitors. The M4 GT4 has seen a lot of success in privateer racing both internationally and here in North America but it's not front and center like the big GT cars.

I feel like Sports Car racing in general has become more popular than it was and manufacturers are throwing more money behind it than they have in the past because of a unified North American series in IMSA with televised events and SRO/PWC providing an excellent platform for customer racing around the world. It's getting harder for BMW to put out a good chassis because the competition is so good.
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      10-17-2019, 03:30 PM   #16
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But then the oversized M6 Blancpain memes will no longer be a thing
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      10-17-2019, 06:51 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patsbimmer1 View Post
I believe the dimensions of the M8 are only carry a potential aero consequence but that could be good or bad. The weight is inconsequential because they're regulated by balance of power per the series rules. BMW advertises it as only weighing 2700lbs which compared to the street version is like losing a whole other car! Their results have been up and down with this car, especially in IMSA but I don't think it's the car's fault per se. The competition in this category is extremely tough! Around the same time as this being released you had an extremely dominant C7.r fully supported by Chevrolet with focus on winning in America and LeMans. Ford released the GT in 2016 for racing with their full weight behind 2 U.S. cars and 2 international cars. Porsche woke up and updated the RSR in 2016 and it was no slouch. Just those 3 competitors with 2 cars each in any given race makes it very difficult for BMW to dominate a series. The M6 was a turd admittedly and couldn't follow up the success of the Z4 GT3/4 chassis but again, Ford GT350 GT4/Cayman GT4/AMG GT3-4/R8 GT3-4/Huracan GT3-4 were all VERY good competitors. The M4 GT4 has seen a lot of success in privateer racing both internationally and here in North America but it's not front and center like the big GT cars.

I feel like Sports Car racing in general has become more popular than it was and manufacturers are throwing more money behind it than they have in the past because of a unified North American series in IMSA with televised events and SRO/PWC providing an excellent platform for customer racing around the world. It's getting harder for BMW to put out a good chassis because the competition is so good.
I agree the competition in IMSA is tough. The driver lineup also changed drastically with the M8... factory drivers but new to US tracks. I wouldn't doubt if that's also a factor.

It's been a tough couple of seasons for sure.
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      10-18-2019, 11:28 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mindcontrollerone View Post
I agree the competition in IMSA is tough. The driver lineup also changed drastically with the M8... factory drivers but new to US tracks. I wouldn't doubt if that's also a factor.

It's been a tough couple of seasons for sure.
I forgot about the drivers! We lost Dirk Muller and Joey Hand who both went to Ford and won a lot and Dane Cameron had a short stint with TMS then jumped ship for LMP1 and has been very competitive. It's been rough to be a BMW racing fan in America the last few years lol.
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      10-21-2019, 01:03 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mindcontrollerone View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepingBMW View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mindcontrollerone View Post
Yes... the M8 has not done well in IMSA or the European Lemans series.

Calvin Fish actually stated on air the M8 will be replaced by the M4 in the GTLM class... I can't wait to see what it looks like 😍

The M8 is just too big! I'm a BMW loyalist, but I must say it's my least favorite.
Umm M6 just won Petit Le Mans this weekend and M8 just won Daytona this year. I'm not sure anything aside Le Mans would have been a better result for BMW racing. M6 has also been very successful at Nurburgring and Spa. It's been a fantastic car. M8 perhaps is BMWs most famous race car since F1.

That said M4 really ought to have a racing counterpart so an M8 GTE and M4 GT3 and M2 GT4 makes perfect sense from a marketing sense. Big expensive car fastest class. M4 in the middle and GT4 With the M2.

M6 behind the scenes was a very complicated and expensive GT3 car and in a competitive world of GT3 it wasn't going to outsell the Mercedes or Lambo offering.
The M6 has been a good race car throughout the years... has won several championships and major races around the globe. Bill Auberlens win at petit was epic!

The M8 hasn't been so lucky!
Definitely got rough treatment in WEC but IMSA has been a successful start. Sadly for BMW the 911 with its new mid rear set up has really good aero finally.
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