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      10-10-2019, 11:49 PM   #89
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I remember my reaction when the Aurum Dust F82 debuted at pebble beach. My jaw was on the floor. I had to have one! I ended up buying 2... a 2015 and a 2018.

My reaction to this 4 series concept car was quite the opposite. My jaw didn't hit the floor... it was my lunch.

Unless the production version of the new M4 looks drastically different in person, I will not be getting one. He can call it what he wants, but the only thing that matters is how it sells. We will see what car buyers think about this monstrosity.
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      10-10-2019, 11:51 PM   #90
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      10-10-2019, 11:58 PM   #91
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      10-11-2019, 12:00 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wah View Post
I remember my reaction when the Aurum Dust F82 debuted at pebble beach. My jaw was on the floor. I had to have one! I ended up buying 2... a 2015 and a 2018.

My reaction to this 4 series concept car was quite the opposite. My jaw didn't hit the floor... it was my lunch.

Unless the production version of the new M4 looks drastically different in person, I will not be getting one. He can call it what he wants, but the only thing that matters is how it sells. We will see what car buyers think about this monstrosity.
Absolutely, the first F80/82 I saw I instantly fell in love. I still think it's one of the best looking cars on the road, they don't have a bad angle on them.
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      10-11-2019, 12:07 AM   #93
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Honestly don't mind it and it's absolutely hilarious to see everyone with pitchforks freaking out.

The proportions will be toned down before production, as every concept has shown us before.

Let's just see where this takes us. But man that concept is definitely different!
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      10-11-2019, 12:20 AM   #94
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This is the evolution of bmw ...
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      10-11-2019, 12:21 AM   #95
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Well, he's an idiot.
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      10-11-2019, 12:22 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOLFFRR View Post
lots of heat from both sides but as I have been saying lets wait and see what it looks like when it comes out. I have a feeling it will slowly grow on them. I know I know guys, but lets wait and see
We don't want your kind 'round here. What with your measured restraint and...what is that...patience? Sprinkled with a little common sense?

You sir are outta order!
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      10-11-2019, 01:11 AM   #97
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Was the E90 grill this hated in the community? I always thought it looked weird. People don't talk about it anymore, but I hated it when it debuted. The F30 styling brought me back to the brand.
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      10-11-2019, 01:28 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveinArizona View Post
He is tone deaf. The complaints of many of us are not that they have changed, it is that they have changed from an attractive grill to a hideous unattractive one. Change is fine...just make it attractive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush1 View Post
The car is nice looking except for the out of proportion grill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
That may be the worst grill I've ever seen on a car. Worse than any Toyota/Lexus........
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkDemma View Post
Who actually LIKES these huge grills? I've heard that it's primarily to the Chinese market who love the things.

Audi / Lexus have been doing this for a while and I always thought it looked hideous. I do hope that it doesn't spread to the entire line of cars.
And literally everyone else.

Why is this so hard to understand?

China BMW Sales are already 2x higher than USA YTD in 2019.

Roughly 73% of BMW Sales in China this year are Cars, not SUVs.

BMW Car Sales are collapsing in USA. Only thing keeping BMW close to positive in USA are SUVs sales.

China BMW Sales from 2019 - 2031 expected to rise 50% compared to 13% in North America

China already has 2x the Dealers as USA.

China likes big grills. USA buyers can come along or not. USA just are not driving the long term future any longer. China Consumer Appeal is leading the design of future vehicles.
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      10-11-2019, 02:05 AM   #99
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Looks like BMW will for future need to produce 2 different types of car designes of the same car..first for Chinese market and second for rest of the world...LOL.
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      10-11-2019, 02:52 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveinArizona View Post
He is tone deaf. The complaints of many of us are not that they have changed, it is that they have changed from an attractive grill to a hideous unattractive one. Change is fine...just make it attractive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush1 View Post
The car is nice looking except for the out of proportion grill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
That may be the worst grill I've ever seen on a car. Worse than any Toyota/Lexus........
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkDemma View Post
Who actually LIKES these huge grills? I've heard that it's primarily to the Chinese market who love the things.

Audi / Lexus have been doing this for a while and I always thought it looked hideous. I do hope that it doesn't spread to the entire line of cars.
And literally everyone else.

Why is this so hard to understand?

China BMW Sales are already 2x higher than USA YTD in 2019.

Roughly 73% of BMW Sales in China this year are Cars, not SUVs.

BMW Car Sales are collapsing in USA. Only thing keeping BMW close to positive in USA are SUVs sales.

China BMW Sales from 2019 - 2031 expected to rise 50% compared to 13% in North America

China already has 2x the Dealers as USA.

China likes big grills. USA buyers can come along or not. USA just are not driving the long term future any longer. China Consumer Appeal is leading the design of future vehicles.
Big grills?
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      10-11-2019, 02:56 AM   #101
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Bet anything he wont own one of the ugly ass grill BMW.
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      10-11-2019, 02:58 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 535i MSport View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveinArizona View Post
He is tone deaf. The complaints of many of us are not that they have changed, it is that they have changed from an attractive grill to a hideous unattractive one. Change is fine...just make it attractive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush1 View Post
The car is nice looking except for the out of proportion grill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
That may be the worst grill I've ever seen on a car. Worse than any Toyota/Lexus........
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkDemma View Post
Who actually LIKES these huge grills? I've heard that it's primarily to the Chinese market who love the things.

Audi / Lexus have been doing this for a while and I always thought it looked hideous. I do hope that it doesn't spread to the entire line of cars.
And literally everyone else.

Why is this so hard to understand?

China BMW Sales are already 2x higher than USA YTD in 2019.

Roughly 73% of BMW Sales in China this year are Cars, not SUVs.

BMW Car Sales are collapsing in USA. Only thing keeping BMW close to positive in USA are SUVs sales.

China BMW Sales from 2019 - 2031 expected to rise 50% compared to 13% in North America

China already has 2x the Dealers as USA.

China likes big grills. USA buyers can come along or not. USA just are not driving the long term future any longer. China Consumer Appeal is leading the design of future vehicles.
Big grills?
Even for Rolls Royce
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      10-11-2019, 02:58 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
Nice try at turning this into "changing to stay ahead of the competition". How about addressing his lack of creating a beautiful and different design rather than what we have which is different and ugly design?
Those are all subjective statements. We all find different things beautiful or ugly......tasty or nasty.....etc. There are no definitive answers when it comes to subjective things.
Right… just like Jennifer Lawrence, Scarlett Johansson, or Jennifer Lopez are "subjectively" attractive. There are underlying themes which cause us to see "beauty." One may be more important to you than I but there's certain shared commonalities. I understand what you're trying to get at but you have to call a spade a spade when you see one. And this is a Fugly one.

The most poignant line I took away from his commentary was this: "If you are no longer successful, people will immediately start saying you need to make changes, but then you are in panic mode." This is where they're at right now, or about to be. The poop is about to hit the fan in Munich. They're already under pressure considering their failed (in their eyes) EV/hybrid rollout. Seems like a bad time to start messing with design language at this point but we've seen failures happen before. It's just a hard pill to swallow for those of us who enjoyed those shared design commonalities for so long before this.
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      10-11-2019, 03:01 AM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 535i MSport View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveinArizona View Post
He is tone deaf. The complaints of many of us are not that they have changed, it is that they have changed from an attractive grill to a hideous unattractive one. Change is fine...just make it attractive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush1 View Post
The car is nice looking except for the out of proportion grill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
That may be the worst grill I've ever seen on a car. Worse than any Toyota/Lexus........
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkDemma View Post
Who actually LIKES these huge grills? I've heard that it's primarily to the Chinese market who love the things.

Audi / Lexus have been doing this for a while and I always thought it looked hideous. I do hope that it doesn't spread to the entire line of cars.
And literally everyone else.

Why is this so hard to understand?

China BMW Sales are already 2x higher than USA YTD in 2019.

Roughly 73% of BMW Sales in China this year are Cars, not SUVs.

BMW Car Sales are collapsing in USA. Only thing keeping BMW close to positive in USA are SUVs sales.

China BMW Sales from 2019 - 2031 expected to rise 50% compared to 13% in North America

China already has 2x the Dealers as USA.

China likes big grills. USA buyers can come along or not. USA just are not driving the long term future any longer. China Consumer Appeal is leading the design of future vehicles.
Big grills?
Even for Rolls Royce
Lol. But Rolls have always had them.
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      10-11-2019, 03:05 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sq86 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
Nice try at turning this into "changing to stay ahead of the competition". How about addressing his lack of creating a beautiful and different design rather than what we have which is different and ugly design?
Those are all subjective statements. We all find different things beautiful or ugly......tasty or nasty.....etc. There are no definitive answers when it comes to subjective things.
Right just like Jennifer Lawrence, Scarlett Johansson, or Jennifer Lopez are "subjectively" attractive. There are underlying themes which cause us to see "beauty." One may be more important to you than I but there's certain shared commonalities. I understand what you're trying to get at but you have to call a spade a spade when you see one. And this is a Fugly one.

The most poignant line I took away from his commentary was this: "If you are no longer successful, people will immediately start saying you need to make changes, but then you are in panic mode." This is where they're at right now, or about to be. The poop is about to hit the fan in Munich. They're already under pressure considering their failed (in their eyes) EV/hybrid rollout. Seems like a bad time to start messing with design language at this point but we've seen failures happen before. It's just a hard pill to swallow for those of us who enjoyed those shared design commonalities for so long before this.
Failed in their eyes?

They see it as a success.
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      10-11-2019, 03:06 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 535i MSport View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 535i MSport View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveinArizona View Post
He is tone deaf. The complaints of many of us are not that they have changed, it is that they have changed from an attractive grill to a hideous unattractive one. Change is fine...just make it attractive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush1 View Post
The car is nice looking except for the out of proportion grill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
That may be the worst grill I've ever seen on a car. Worse than any Toyota/Lexus........
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkDemma View Post
Who actually LIKES these huge grills? I've heard that it's primarily to the Chinese market who love the things.

Audi / Lexus have been doing this for a while and I always thought it looked hideous. I do hope that it doesn't spread to the entire line of cars.
And literally everyone else.

Why is this so hard to understand?

China BMW Sales are already 2x higher than USA YTD in 2019.

Roughly 73% of BMW Sales in China this year are Cars, not SUVs.

BMW Car Sales are collapsing in USA. Only thing keeping BMW close to positive in USA are SUVs sales.

China BMW Sales from 2019 - 2031 expected to rise 50% compared to 13% in North America

China already has 2x the Dealers as USA.

China likes big grills. USA buyers can come along or not. USA just are not driving the long term future any longer. China Consumer Appeal is leading the design of future vehicles.
Big grills?
Even for Rolls Royce
Lol. But Rolls have always had them.
Not like that
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      10-11-2019, 03:08 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 535i MSport View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 535i MSport View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IK6SPEED View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveinArizona View Post
He is tone deaf. The complaints of many of us are not that they have changed, it is that they have changed from an attractive grill to a hideous unattractive one. Change is fine...just make it attractive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush1 View Post
The car is nice looking except for the out of proportion grill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
That may be the worst grill I've ever seen on a car. Worse than any Toyota/Lexus........
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkDemma View Post
Who actually LIKES these huge grills? I've heard that it's primarily to the Chinese market who love the things.

Audi / Lexus have been doing this for a while and I always thought it looked hideous. I do hope that it doesn't spread to the entire line of cars.
And literally everyone else.

Why is this so hard to understand?

China BMW Sales are already 2x higher than USA YTD in 2019.

Roughly 73% of BMW Sales in China this year are Cars, not SUVs.

BMW Car Sales are collapsing in USA. Only thing keeping BMW close to positive in USA are SUVs sales.

China BMW Sales from 2019 - 2031 expected to rise 50% compared to 13% in North America

China already has 2x the Dealers as USA.

China likes big grills. USA buyers can come along or not. USA just are not driving the long term future any longer. China Consumer Appeal is leading the design of future vehicles.
Big grills?
Even for Rolls Royce
Lol. But Rolls have always had them.
Not like that
1972
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      10-11-2019, 03:09 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deda View Post
Looks like BMW will for future need to produce 2 different types of car designes of the same car..first for Chinese market and second for rest of the world...LOL.
M cars are designed for hardcore buyers and these buyers are similar throughout the world. Other than M cars, there are already multiple Chinese special models such as G28 3 series --- the car is brutally stretched with even more legroom than standard 5 series, making it a family sedan. Ironically, BMW held their initial press conference for G28 on a race track earlier this year in China, emphasizing the remaining sportiness for a family sedan.
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      10-11-2019, 03:28 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisano View Post
We had the Bengel-butt that terrorized some BMW booties and now the Hooydonk-Snout.

Tone deaf is right. If you acknowledge the BMW loyalists, you should attempt to listen to them as you advance the brand forward.
Hooydonk-Honker?
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      10-11-2019, 03:38 AM   #110
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Quote:
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M cars are designed for hardcore buyers and these buyers are similar throughout the world. Other than M cars, there are already multiple Chinese special models such as G28 3 series --- the car is brutally stretched with even more legroom than standard 5 series, making it a family sedan. Ironically, BMW held their initial press conference for G28 on a race track earlier this year in China, emphasizing the remaining sportiness for a family sedan.
Sorry, but the Sports Market is no longer their focus. It's not even mentioned (nor are the M2/M3/M4/M5......) in their most recent Investor Presentation.

It's ACES, % of Premium Market and Growth in China - driving overall growth.
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