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      10-23-2019, 01:18 AM   #45
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no worries; there is still time for them to add a terrible ZF 8 speed slushbox into the mix to ruin everything.
Even Mercedes started using 7spd DCTs. I don't know why bmw moved away from them in their performance cars.
Mercedes cars aren't keeping up with BMW's cars, so.........
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      10-23-2019, 01:19 AM   #46
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Still think I'll go with a '21 or '22 M2C, but we'll see...
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      10-23-2019, 01:26 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
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Originally Posted by paliknight View Post
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Originally Posted by 10" View Post
no worries; there is still time for them to add a terrible ZF 8 speed slushbox into the mix to ruin everything.
Even Mercedes started using 7spd DCTs. I don't know why bmw moved away from them in their performance cars.
Mercedes cars aren't keeping up with BMW's cars, so.........
Not sure I can understand what you are actually talking about.

Mercedes is at a entirely different level then BMW could ever be........
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      10-23-2019, 01:32 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
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Originally Posted by paliknight View Post
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Originally Posted by 10" View Post
no worries; there is still time for them to add a terrible ZF 8 speed slushbox into the mix to ruin everything.
Even Mercedes started using 7spd DCTs. I don't know why bmw moved away from them in their performance cars.
Mercedes cars aren't keeping up with BMW's cars, so.........
Not sure I can understand what you are actually talking about.

Mercedes is at a entirely different level then BMW could ever be........
He made a statement about Mercedes using DCT's in their performance cars. Their performance cars still pale in comparison to the equivalent BMW offering using AT's. Therein lies my point. Whether you believe that Mercedes offers a better overall product isn't something I choose to debate because people value different things. I have no issue with Mercedes as an automaker. Hell, my '03 C230 beater has 342,000 original miles on it and is alive and well; and it keeps commuter miles off of my ///M4. It has surpassed all expectations.
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      10-23-2019, 02:54 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by gds52 View Post
Just RWD and manual doesn't help much...the cars need to give some feedback. Too much insulation and there is no road feel, that just kills half of the fun. At least, these lower series cars should be more connected.
100%. Especially the M2 which doesn't really appeal to the badge whores who prefer M4s and M5s.

Compared to modern BMWs and modern cars in general, the M2's steering is adequate for me.
M5 could be more raw but it would probably miss it's target audience by miles
Agree. It's a big old bus, no two ways about it. A super fast, mile cruncher, but not truly agile.
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      10-23-2019, 02:55 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
As enthusiasts we need to stop asking for more power and better performance.

The increased performance is delegating driver's cars to become auto-only with more going to AWD due to the increased power, so we can get better HP numbers, 0-60, 1/4 mile, Ring times, all the while - Those improved metrics actually make the cars less engaging to drive.

The testing numbers will be great while the engagement will be obsolete. Then buyers turn to older cars that were not as powerful, but were (RWD/6MT delights) that feel more than adequately powered and gave the driver enough involvement to be considered great all around driving experiences.
That's a very good point. If anyone doubts it, go drive an RS4 or RS5. Compared to F80/C63S etc, they are fast, competent, but dull.
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      10-23-2019, 03:36 AM   #51
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Mercedes has the AMG GTS and Audi has the R8. Both of which use DCTs. BMW has nothing on that level. Same with porsche, ferrari, mclaren.. all DCT and no automatics.

bmw's autos are quick at upshifting and very smooth around town. BMW realized most of their buyers leave their DCT cars in automatic mode 99% of the time and want a better daily, rather than a more responsive transmission.

There are plenty of threads on the M5 forums saying the new transmission is not as responsive, especially when asking for a downshift. Same with the supra.
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      10-23-2019, 04:55 AM   #52
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Manual RWD M2

Nuf Saïd....
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      10-23-2019, 05:49 AM   #53
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Quote:
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No worries; there is still time for them to add a terrible ZF 8 speed slushbox into the mix to ruin everything.
Screw that.

Long live the proper 7spd DCT ‼️
Not like BMW had the best DCT in town, when you drove ZF8 and left it in auto, how often do you find it to be in the wrong gear?
I'd rather be in the wrong gear than to have the wrong gearbox!! NO M car should have a torque converted crapbox, IMO!!

I'm OK with DCT even though I'm a manual supporter. I'm not ok with a ZF auto...
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      10-23-2019, 05:53 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10" View Post
I'd rather be in the wrong gear than to have the wrong gearbox!! NO M car should have a torque converted crapbox, IMO!!

I'm OK with DCT even though I'm a manual supporter. I'm not ok with a ZF auto...
I guess you will have to get used to it, I haven't seen an indication anywhere that any future M car will still have a DCT, they all moved/will move to ZF8. The more interesting question is whether the next M2 will still have a 6MT and/or if they will reconsider their "M-Performance cars available with ZF8 only" stance and also offer manuals there again at some point.
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      10-23-2019, 06:12 AM   #55
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Next M2 will come with a B58 (dubbed OGM2-2) and then the comp will have the S58. A lot of butt hurt feelings will ensue and forum will be awash with controversy. I think I've seen this story before

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      10-23-2019, 06:13 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbanck View Post
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I'd rather be in the wrong gear than to have the wrong gearbox!! NO M car should have a torque converted crapbox, IMO!!

I'm OK with DCT even though I'm a manual supporter. I'm not ok with a ZF auto...
I guess you will have to get used to it, I haven't seen an indication anywhere that any future M car will still have a DCT, they all moved/will move to ZF8. The more interesting question is whether the next M2 will still have a 6MT and/or if they will reconsider their "M-Performance cars available with ZF8 only" stance and also offer manuals there again at some point.
I won't get used to anything! Happy with my 1M and keeping it long long long term (permanent part of my garage).

Won't buy any car with a torque converter gearbox. Would rather buy something else if I need a 2nd car. BMW isn't the only brand

DCT lost out to ZF8 because of 2 reasons; cost and cost (and possibly also economy and mileage ratings). The ZF8 is a much cheaper gearbox to produce/implement and to maintain. Because it doesn't require the same degree of engineering it's a huge cost cutting benefit to companies who feel customers won't notice or care. Well we do care! Can you imagine a 911 with a ZF8? Will never ever happen...they did traditional auto boxes in the 80s when there were no better options but it will never happen again.
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      10-23-2019, 07:29 AM   #57
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Next M2 will come with a B58 (dubbed OGM2-2) and then the comp will have the S58. A lot of butt hurt feelings will ensue and forum will be awash with controversy. I think I've seen this story before
There is only one Original Gangster M2 ‼️
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      10-23-2019, 07:48 AM   #58
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Not from outside...I mean at least whatever the car is doing outside, it should feel inside.
they tried with ASD and no one likes it.
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      10-23-2019, 07:54 AM   #59
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Still think I'll go with a '21 or '22 M2C, but we'll see...
would they still produce '22 M2C? M2C has been out since '19. '22 will make it a 4 year run. seems very long, BMW will already be deep into S58 engine production too.
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      10-23-2019, 07:58 AM   #60
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That's good to hear, now they just need to get rid of Adrian so they can sort out the current abysmal styling
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      10-23-2019, 08:15 AM   #61
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Go drive an old 6 cylinder E36 with manual box and LSD. Not fast, but very nice to drive, still.
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      10-23-2019, 08:18 AM   #62
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That's good to hear, now they just need to get rid of Adrian so they can sort out the current abysmal styling
Easy for you to say.

He's got 5 more years before he retires.
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      10-23-2019, 08:40 AM   #63
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BMW design has a disconnect across their lineups. Some cars have HUGE grilles while others don't. Crazy thing is the new 3er has the updated conjoined grille while the 4er is getting the saloon door front end.


But, there's still hope that the next gen 2er won't have a monstrosity of a grille. At least I 'hope' so.
(Disclaimer)
This is not a leak. But an impression to show you how just as the 4er that It's a fine balance between evolution and although I hate this word. Retro.
The original 2002 was the sports sedan precursor to the all conquering 3. I would say 2er begins More of a transition to this now that the line has been separated from the all new(and different) 1er.
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      10-23-2019, 09:06 AM   #64
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Quote:
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5 years is a long time

A lot can change
Agreed but I will keep my M2 at-least seven years.
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5 years is a long time

A lot can change
Agreed but I will keep my M2 at-least seven years.
Ok you have one... that makes sense then.

I just read a comparison between m240 and M2.

M2 has the genuine M car DNA
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      10-23-2019, 10:15 AM   #65
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no worries; there is still time for them to add a terrible ZF 8 speed slushbox into the mix to ruin everything.
lol do you ever have anything non-sarcastic or non cynical to contribute?

it's gotten old.

if you hate BMW so much why not switch brands and leave the forum altogether?
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      10-23-2019, 11:11 AM   #66
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Quote:
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Not from outside...I mean at least whatever the car is doing outside, it should feel inside.
they tried with ASD and no one likes it.
BMW shd put a hose for direct sound in the cabin with on/off switch...lol
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