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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions M340i vs G70 3.3T Sport Comparo. Hits 3.8s 0-60 in Instrumented Test

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      10-23-2019, 09:26 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EXE46 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaM View Post
The truth is even if the G70 was as fast/good as the bimmer, people would still choose the bimmer simply because it's a bimmer (brand prestige).
Luxury today unfortunately is dictated by how expensive and unattainable things are.
In some cases you get what you pay for but most of the time you pay just for the brand name, not because your product is great.
If you know about cars then you know that Genesis makes really really good cars, i know because i used to own the first generation of genesis cars (hyundai genesis) and it was one of the best cars i owned and currently own a G90 (another fantastic car).
Genesis is trying to build a name for themselves and just the fact that they are comparing the G70 with a 3 series or the G90 against the S class it just shows you how good the Genesis brand is.
Mark my words the day will come when the Genesis cars will be at the same level as bimmers and mercs or even better and that day is closing in very quickly.
For me, There's zero point in spending more than double the money to get a 7 series or S class, my G90 is a fantastic car just as is the G70 but you will have to overcome the fact that it does not have the brand prestige that bimmers or mercs have.....just yet. But just wait.


Your argument doesn't hold, again, not everybody buys on price and despite what you proclaim, there are many goods where price is synonymous with quality. You don't always get a comparable product when your main criteria is to go with the cheaper alternative. More often than not the cheaper product is inferior. You may think the BMW is expensive but when compared to a typical Porsche it is cheap. Conversely your G80 is expensive compared to an Avalon etc.

Genesis is late to market and while the G70 is competitive the brand itself still have far to go before it can stand with the big four. Furthermore, the market today is extremely competitive, much more so than it was in the 90's when Lexus debuted the LS400. Genesis is no Lexus and even Lexus doesn't sell as many cars as they used to. Lexus already captures the buyers that would most likely buy the Genesis. At the end of the day, you buy what makes you happy I guess or what you can afford. I would love a 991.2 GT3 RS but I can only afford a cheap M340i today, one day I will have my GT3 though.

PS. New M340i's can be had for less than 60k, mine was a hair over 60k. No need for professional driver assistance and a bunch of other options people choose, complete waste for a drivers car, but then again who am I to tell another person how to spend their hard earned money.

——-
I agree with you that genesis still can't measure up to the big four but not by a lot.
But your comment that "genesis is no lexus" there i disagree. Genesis is better than lexus in my view. The G70 is a better car than IS, the G80 is better than GS and the G90 is about same as LS but costs $30k less.
My G90 is a heck of a car, just as good or better than LS but costs $30 k less! That's a big difference.
Also they are not comparing genesis to lexus, they are comparing their models to bmw and mercs for a reason.
Let their new hires from Audi and m division do their thing and we'll talk again in a couple of years.
Btw they are about to release the new G80 and GV80 (suv). Go check them out, you'll be impressed even if u own a bmw. I know i am and own an x5 and m5
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      10-23-2019, 09:32 PM   #46
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I am surprised nobody mentioned that KIA and Hyundai doesn't hold its values at all even worst then Bmw. If you bought that G70, after two years it's worth nothing.
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      10-23-2019, 09:51 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by AlphaM View Post
I agree with you that genesis still can't measure up to the big four but not by a lot.
But your comment that "genesis is no lexus" there i disagree. Genesis is better than lexus in my view. The G70 is a better car than IS, the G80 is better than GS and the G90 is about same as LS but costs $30k less.
My G90 is a heck of a car, just as good or better than LS but costs $30 k less! That's a big difference.
Also they are not comparing genesis to lexus, they are comparing their models to bmw and mercs for a reason.
Let their new hires from Audi and m division do their thing and we'll talk again in a couple of years.
Btw they are about to release the new G80 and GV80 (suv). Go check them out, you'll be impressed even if u own a bmw. I know i am and own an x5 and m5
I did test drive the 3.3T, I am no loyal fanboy. I left BMW when the F30 debuted and got a Lexus 3IS which was a better drivers car then but slow. When i say Genesis is no Lexus I meant Lexus is well regarded, their cars are the most reliable bar none. They have the best resale values etc and their buyers are not running to Genesis, they're very loyal and rightfully so. Lexus makes some boring cars and some interesting ones but it is a fact their cars are reliable and they have great quality materials.

Running cost on almost all Lexus is significantly lower than any other luxury brand. It's why most Lexus's are purchased and not leased like the Germans. Those are facts and lest you forget, the large buying public are not enthusiast like us. They want quality and reliability and that's where Lexus dominates. Genesis has no such regard, the Kia Stinger for example is known to have numerous quality issues, stuff breaks on it that doesn't normally break on other cars. Lexus has their unique niche and their loyal client base. Genesis doesn't have that and probably never will. BMW guys buys BMW, same for Audi and Mercedes. It will take Genesis at least a decade before one say if they're a worthy competitor. Building a decent driver's car is one thing, finding people to sell them to is different.
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      10-23-2019, 09:54 PM   #48
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What? Steering in the M340 is loads better that recent models. Unless of coarse you need formula-1 steering in the way to work.
It's not even debatable at this point. The consensus from reviews (and my own driving impressions) are that the G20 is a way better car than the F30, but if you were expecting E90 levels of feedback you'll be disappointed. To add to that the car has simply become too large. Nobody's asking for a Formula 1 car, but what we do ask for is for a BMW 3-series to drive like ones that made C&D's 10 Best every year.

Our new choice for a compact sports saloon? A FWD Ford Focus with a kidney grille grafted up front.
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      10-23-2019, 09:58 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by EXE46 View Post
I did test drive the 3.3T, I am no loyal fanboy. I left BMW when the F30 debuted and got a Lexus 3IS which was a better drivers car then but slow. When i say Genesis is no Lexus I meant Lexus is well regarded, their cars are the most reliable bar none. They have the best resale values etc and their buyers are not running to Genesis, they're very loyal and rightfully so. Lexus makes some boring cars and some interesting ones but it is a fact their cars are reliable and they have great quality materials.

Running cost on almost all Lexus is significantly lower than any other luxury brand. It's why most Lexus's are purchased and not leased like the Germans. Those are facts and lest you forget, the large buying public are not enthusiast like us.
My DD is a Lexus IS. Aside from the very underpowered engine it's a reasonably fun little sport sedan. Looks nice, luxurious enough, and I never have to take it to the dealer for anything besides routine maintenance.
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      10-23-2019, 10:05 PM   #50
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M340i is faster than F80 M3 & F82 M4.

I'm proud of BMW AG.
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      10-23-2019, 10:16 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer456 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uoflfan27 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
For those that have been waiting, Car and Driver has gotten their hands on a M340i and compared it to the G70.

BMW
Highs: Big Power from a silken inline-6, big grip, big back seat, and trunk.
Lows: Big price, stiff ride, steering still a bit too numb for our liking.

Genesis
Highs: Strong performer, impressive ride and handling balance, undeniable value.
Lows: Not as quick in a straight line, tight back seat.

In the end, C/D does acknowledge that the M340i is a better driver's car due to its more refined and faster powertrain, and overall nicer and larger interior, but states that may not be enough to overcome the Genesis great pricing, and that overall, the Genesis isn't far behind the 3-Series, being able to do many things just as well or even better than the 3er.

Full Article -> https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...0-genesis-g70/
They got the rear wheel drive to do 3.8 to 60. Wonder what an Xdrive would do??
C and D times are always optimistic. They must be driving downhill to achieve those times.
Optimistic because you can't achieve them ?

They detail exactly what equipment they use.. unlike many other organizations.


https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...c-d-test-cars/


I guess you aren't as fast ...
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      10-23-2019, 10:23 PM   #52
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A lot of insecure BMW owners really owning up to the stereotype here. You know Kia and Genesis are making good cars when you see these types of comments on a BMW forum, lol.

KIA is a brand Hyundai bought. Saying Genesis is a Kia is like saying BMW is a Mini (UKL platform cars anyone?) or that Mercedes is Smart. The G70 platform was developed as a purpose built luxury car platform that Kia shared as an affordable halo car. That doesn't 'make the G70 a Kia, not that that is even a bad thing these days. That just means Kia makes a car with a luxury car platform.

I've never owned or leased a Kia, Hyundai, or Genesis product in my life, but I don't tie my self-worth to the badge on my car so I can admit that they make good cars.
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      10-23-2019, 10:32 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel View Post
A lot of insecure BMW owners really owning up to the stereotype here. You know Kia and Genesis are making good cars when you see these types of comments on a BMW forum, lol.

KIA is a brand Hyundai bought. Saying Genesis is a Kia is like saying BMW is a Mini (UKL platform cars anyone?) or that Mercedes is Smart. The G70 platform was developed as a purpose built luxury car platform that Kia shared as an affordable halo car. That doesn't 'make the G70 a Kia, not that that is even a bad thing these days. That just means Kia makes a car with a luxury car platform.

I've never owned or leased a Kia, Hyundai, or Genesis product in my life, but I don't tie my self-worth to the badge on my car so I can admit that they make good cars.
Let's also not forget that Albert Biernman, the previous head of the M-division, had a huge part in making the G70, Stinger, and Veloster N, all of which have garnered great press and reviews.
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      10-23-2019, 11:11 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcjohnsonsg View Post
I think their conclusion rather misses the point. The review makes it clear that M340 is the better car in most aspects that people care about, including practicality. With that as a baseline, I think the price difference is not as relevant as they make it out to be. I think for most people, if you can afford the better car, you buy the better car. You don't sit down and think "is that car worth $12k more than the other one"! After all, there is no way you could say a Ferrari is $150k better than an M3, but if someone can afford the Ferrari, 9 times out of 10 they will buy it.
lol, we're not talking about Ferraris here. In this price range, people are still thinking about value. Shoot, even while shopping for $150k cars, I know people that hem and haw over $1000 options.

The price difference between the cars is about 20%. That's significant in the entry luxury market. Also, as the review states, the G70 has things that it does better as well. The review says the main reason the BMW won was because it drove a bit better. Let's be honest, most people even on these forums ask questions like "should I get the M340i or the X3 M40i?", most people even on the forums don't care about driving dynamics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobloblaw View Post
Man, cars are getting so fast. When I had my Z4MC I thought it was super fast. Now, barely 10 years later, it would get walked by a damn Hyundai G70 lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcjohnsonsg View Post
I think their conclusion rather misses the point. The review makes it clear that M340 is the better car in most aspects that people care about, including practicality. With that as a baseline, I think the price difference is not as relevant as they make it out to be. I think for most people, if you can afford the better car, you buy the better car. You don't sit down and think "is that car worth $12k more than the other one"! After all, there is no way you could say a Ferrari is $150k better than an M3, but if someone can afford the Ferrari, 9 times out of 10 they will buy it.
lol, we're not talking about Ferraris here. In this price range, people are still thinking about value. Shoot, even while shopping for $150k cars, I know people that hem and haw over $1000 options.

The price difference between the cars is about 20%. That's significant in the entry luxury market. Also, as the review states, the G70 has things that it does better as well. The review says the main reason the BMW won was because it drove a bit better. Let's be honest, most people even on these forums ask questions like "should I get the M340i or the X3 M40i?", most people even on the forums don't care about driving dynamics.
What?????

Don't care about driving dynamics?!

What are you 🥜 I kid I kid 😆

BMW is/was sold on the
Ultimate Driving Experience

I drove the M340 aggressively/spirited.

I felt like I was beating on the car.

Getting back in my F80; the enthusiastic driving is EFFORTLESS!!!!

M340 is a sweet ride though!
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      10-23-2019, 11:22 PM   #55
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Don't forget that a Genesis is a Hyundai with a a good marketing name...
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      10-23-2019, 11:25 PM   #56
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When you compare what the G70 usually leases at to the M340i the price difference isn't so great. The other thing to consider is the dealer network, the closest Genesis dealer to me was much further away and there are only a few of them compared to lots of BMW dealerships, which makes competition better.
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      10-23-2019, 11:40 PM   #57
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Wow, 3.8 seconds. I'm not one to perseverate on 0-60 times but that is very impressive. The G8X M3/4 are going to be monsters, especially in automatic/MxDrive form.

Nonetheless, if I do end up buying one, it will be the slowest model available - MT/RWD.
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      10-24-2019, 12:03 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcjohnsonsg View Post
I think their conclusion rather misses the point. The review makes it clear that M340 is the better car in most aspects that people care about, including practicality. With that as a baseline, I think the price difference is not as relevant as they make it out to be. I think for most people, if you can afford the better car, you buy the better car. You don't sit down and think "is that car worth $12k more than the other one"! After all, there is no way you could say a Ferrari is $150k better than an M3, but if someone can afford the Ferrari, 9 times out of 10 they will buy it.
Ferrari 11 out 10
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      10-24-2019, 12:29 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by RedGT3RS View Post
Brand snob? In your avatar is that your corvette? If so, why would you be driving a Chevy when you can buy yourself a Porsche or Ferrari
Haha, there is always someone higher on the food chain. Point is, many wouldn't be interested in a Genesis when shopping at this level other. Kinda why the VW Phaeton tanked. Why get a Phaeton she you can get an S63? Oops, or a 750iL or whatever it was called back then.

Truth be told, when it came to the Corvette... not many sports cars left with a stick and a V8

Last edited by coladin; 10-24-2019 at 12:39 AM..
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      10-24-2019, 12:35 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M340Mike View Post
I've only had it for a week but I have not found the M340 too stiff. It's obviously no 7 series with air suspension but I find it a tad smoother than my X3 in comfort mode. I'm also pleased that Sport mode is not punishing at all. Seems pretty much right on the money for me. I wouldn't have said no to an 'extra'-comfort mode of it was an option for the long cruises or even the daily commute. But I'm pretty happy with it.
I'm coming from a C43, and also after one week, the ride is Lincoln Town car compared to the Benz, which was brutal. I also find the steering quite good, but not as good as the C43, which also required a lot of tire purchases due to their aggressive turn-in calibrations.
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      10-24-2019, 12:38 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcjohnsonsg View Post
I think their conclusion rather misses the point. The review makes it clear that M340 is the better car in most aspects that people care about, including practicality. With that as a baseline, I think the price difference is not as relevant as they make it out to be. I think for most people, if you can afford the better car, you buy the better car. You don't sit down and think "is that car worth $12k more than the other one"! After all, there is no way you could say a Ferrari is $150k better than an M3, but if someone can afford the Ferrari, 9 times out of 10 they will buy it.
I assure you there are plenty of people who can afford a Ferrari but end up driving Toyota Land Cruisers and Genesis G80s. Some even have their "beater" cars like brand new leased Accords and Camrys.

The class of car that people seem to "stretch" their finances the most for are entry luxury cars like the 3 series. Given that, I bet the ability to pay 75% of the money for 90% of the car is attractive to some.
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      10-24-2019, 01:17 AM   #62
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It's funny the only things they say are better on the Genesis are the look of quilted contrast stitched seats with alcantara headliner and suspension comfort. Well that and a price difference which they call a bargain. If everything else is as good as they say about the BMW, how is THAT not the bargain?!

I own one so maybe call me biased but it's a phenomenal car and these instrumented tests plus subjective opinions confirm it. Except they complain about stiff suspension. Pleeeease. The adaptive suspension is tight yet very comfortable in comfort and only a little busier in sport modes. They make it sound like it is M3 stiff. C&D have really gotten soft.
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      10-24-2019, 01:39 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uoflfan27 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
For those that have been waiting, Car and Driver has gotten their hands on a M340i and compared it to the G70.

BMW
Highs: Big Power from a silken inline-6, big grip, big back seat, and trunk.
Lows: Big price, stiff ride, steering still a bit too numb for our liking.

Genesis
Highs: Strong performer, impressive ride and handling balance, undeniable value.
Lows: Not as quick in a straight line, tight back seat.

In the end, C/D does acknowledge that the M340i is a better driver's car due to its more refined and faster powertrain, and overall nicer and larger interior, but states that may not be enough to overcome the Genesis great pricing, and that overall, the Genesis isn't far behind the 3-Series, being able to do many things just as well or even better than the 3er.

Full Article -> https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...0-genesis-g70/
They got the rear wheel drive to do 3.8 to 60. Wonder what an Xdrive would do??
I wouldn't have been shocked if this was xdrive but something doesn't seem right here.

They did 3.9 in the F80 which had a lot more power and torque and weighed 200 lbs less
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      10-24-2019, 01:56 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Jbonly21 View Post
I am surprised nobody mentioned that KIA and Hyundai doesn't hold its values at all even worst then Bmw. If you bought that G70, after two years it's worth nothing.
If you lease it,

Nobody really cares but KIA.
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      10-24-2019, 01:57 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uoflfan27 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
For those that have been waiting, Car and Driver has gotten their hands on a M340i and compared it to the G70.

BMW
Highs: Big Power from a silken inline-6, big grip, big back seat, and trunk.
Lows: Big price, stiff ride, steering still a bit too numb for our liking.

Genesis
Highs: Strong performer, impressive ride and handling balance, undeniable value.
Lows: Not as quick in a straight line, tight back seat.

In the end, C/D does acknowledge that the M340i is a better driver's car due to its more refined and faster powertrain, and overall nicer and larger interior, but states that may not be enough to overcome the Genesis great pricing, and that overall, the Genesis isn't far behind the 3-Series, being able to do many things just as well or even better than the 3er.

Full Article -> https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...0-genesis-g70/
They got the rear wheel drive to do 3.8 to 60. Wonder what an Xdrive would do??
I wouldn't have been shocked if this was xdrive but something doesn't seem right here.

They did 3.9 in the F80 which had a lot more power and torque and weighed 200 lbs less
My thoughts exactly.
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      10-24-2019, 03:00 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocB View Post
What? Steering in the M340 is loads better that recent models. Unless of coarse you need formula-1 steering in the way to work.
It's not even debatable at this point. The consensus from reviews (and my own driving impressions) are that the G20 is a way better car than the F30, but if you were expecting E90 levels of feedback you'll be disappointed. To add to that the car has simply become too large. Nobody's asking for a Formula 1 car, but what we do ask for is for a BMW 3-series to drive like ones that made C&D's 10 Best every year.

Our new choice for a compact sports saloon? A FWD Ford Focus with a kidney grille grafted up front.
This segment of cars will never again be the way they were in the past. This trend is not limited to bmw. A prime example is that electric power steering is here to stay and feedback through the steering column will never be as natural and tactile as it once was. It's futile to even hope for it. One or two manufacturers might have managed to create some mediocre level of feedback, or quasi feedback, in their EPS systems, but they're still not the same. They still lack the more natural feel and tactile feedback of a well designed hydraulic system.

Also, forget about the car and driver top ten. It's mostly for entertainment purposes, not to be taken 100% seriously. Look at the article comparing the m340i and g70 for example. The m340i not only bested the g70 in nearly every performance metric, but bested it by a healthy margin. Additionally the authors admit that the m340i was the superior car on a windy backroad. Yet they give the g70 the nod for being cheaper and "good enough for the daily commute". Since when was "cheaper and good enough for the daily commute" a metric by which to judge a luxury sport sedan. Car and driver whined about how bmw had missed the mark with the f30 due to its being a duller sport sedan than its predecessors. Now bmw apparently regained some of that swagger in the g20, despite ever tightening legislative constraints, and car and driver whines about the stiffer suspension. I guess they'd rather trade in excellence for mediocrity just to pay less and be more comfy. Why not just get an Altima then. After all, car and driver obtained fairly decent performance from the newest Altima, and it's far less expensive than the g70.

The mainstream car sites and periodicals have become a joke. Don't take them seriously. They're best suited to the waiting room at the dentist, and even then I'd rather just play chess on my phone while I wait.
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