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      10-31-2019, 04:52 PM   #23
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Glad to see there is at least some restraint! For now...
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      10-31-2019, 04:53 PM   #24
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      10-31-2019, 04:54 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
If that was his point, it's a terribly weak one.

It would be a bit like a hypothetical situation where there were no M3, and the response to that being something like, "Well maybe if the C63 outsells the M340i, BMW will reconsider and decide to bring an M3 to market". The folly there is that the top tier rarely if ever outsells the middle tier - that's fairly fundamental to how tiered pricing/segmentation works - but it certainly does not mean that there is no business case for the top tier.
What's difficult to understand and what is hypothetical about the argument?

When the A45 AMG and RS3 are capable to realise great sales figures, it is only a matter of time before we'll see an equivalent BMW M offering.

Exactly the same happened with the SUVs. M was never into that, until they saw the competition running away with their customers.
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      10-31-2019, 05:04 PM   #26
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"Looks like the 2 series Gran Coupe will top out at the M235i Xdrive Gran Coupe" should read "Looks like the 2 series Gran Coupe will bottom out at the M235i Xdrive Gran Coupe".
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      10-31-2019, 05:14 PM   #27
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I think anything below a 3 should not have the letter M on it. And I kinda think it's silly to offer an M and an M-Comp. Just call them M & make them the Competition version. I kinda think that's why we buying an M... I know it's to squeeze another 7-8 thousand bucks out of us because it's kinda a forgone conclusion that if we are gonna spend the money for an M, most will fork up the extra! Anyway, just my opinion.
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      10-31-2019, 05:16 PM   #28
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      10-31-2019, 05:18 PM   #29
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How about we drop gran coup all together and bring wagons to the US.
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      10-31-2019, 05:28 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Commanderwiggin View Post
Thank you BMW gods...we didn't need either of these options.
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      10-31-2019, 05:53 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by positiveions View Post
How about we drop gran coup all together and bring wagons to the US.
All these xCars and Gran Coupes are jacked-up-wagons without proper roof rails.

It's a just a dog & pony show..

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      10-31-2019, 05:59 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhMyXM View Post
I think anything below a 3 should not have the letter M on it. And I kinda think it's silly to offer an M and an M-Comp. Just call them M & make them the Competition version. I kinda think that's why we buying an M... I know it's to squeeze another 7-8 thousand bucks out of us because it's kinda a forgone conclusion that if we are gonna spend the money for an M, most will fork up the extra! Anyway, just my opinion.
The 1M would like to have a word with you

Of course, I remember my 135i had at least 6 M badges on it from the factory
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      10-31-2019, 06:26 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feddersen View Post
In 2013 BMW said there will be no non-SUV Ms with AWD:

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=805747

Money talks and if a FWD based M will sell they will make it.

BTW: It took about 5 minutes to find the exact sales figures per make/model of 2018 in Germany. They are published here: https://www.kba.de/DE/Statistik/Fahr...ller_node.html (only in German)
I'm with you. You can find them saying we would never do X on all their recent new products. Especially FWD.

Atleast it hasn't ruined the brand totally. It's not replacing anything so much as expanding the line up.

IMO, M as a brand is basically dead. Why not make a new 1M and pair it with a IMSA TCR race car which has mostly fwd cars anyway. Would expand the M division racing car offerings and clearly somebody likes FWD cars.

And tbh, Golf R is pretty fun. At this point to me the stupid grill M colors and M badges on every panel of every base 320i is more offensive to me than an AWD transverse M car.
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      10-31-2019, 07:05 PM   #34
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"And tbh, Golf R is pretty fun. At this point to me the stupid grill M colors and M badges on every panel of every base 320i is more offensive to me than an AWD transverse M car."

I agree but that is like saying being stabbed is less painful than being sliced open. I would really rather not have either.
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      10-31-2019, 07:08 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrgunfun View Post
This is so messed up, BMW should sort things out here.
Why would we have 2 different drive-train within one model 2er?
Front wheel and rear wheel 2 series at the same time/generation?
From marketing perspective, this is really terrible..

I'm Not sure how this got approved by corporate heads either. It would have been simpler and numerically appropriate to make a 1er sedan out of this FWD " gran coupe " platform.
Can't charge more if it's a 1. 2 sounds better. Same reason Audi has an a3 and not an a2 based on their naming convention as well.

Bmw knows that the bulk of leases don't know or care which wheels drive the car. And based on the 4er being a departure from the current g20 3er (think grills) then Bmw is already working to make people ok with a drastic design difference between the sedan and coupes. Just in this circumstance the 2er shares the badge between 2 and 4 doors.

I come from having an e46 and an e90 and now I own an f30. I'd love an e46 sized sedan that's rwd bias but an awd 300hp 2er with four doors will be just fine as a daily
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      10-31-2019, 07:11 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jockey View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhMyXM View Post
I think anything below a 3 should not have the letter M on it. And I kinda think it's silly to offer an M and an M-Comp. Just call them M & make them the Competition version. I kinda think that's why we buying an M... I know it's to squeeze another 7-8 thousand bucks out of us because it's kinda a forgone conclusion that if we are gonna spend the money for an M, most will fork up the extra! Anyway, just my opinion.
The 1M would like to have a word with you

Of course, I remember my 135i had at least 6 M badges on it from the factory
Oh, man that was a so far ahead of it's time. The M1, kinda forgot about that one. Current line up. Yeah, I can deal with less badging myself. Everywhere I look in mine, inside and out, just in case I forgot what that huge check was for 😂😂
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      10-31-2019, 08:00 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhMyXM View Post
Oh, man that was a so far ahead of it's time. The M1, kinda forgot about that one. Current line up. Yeah, I can deal with less badging myself. Everywhere I look in mine, inside and out, just in case I forgot what that huge check was for 😂😂
I'd have a M2C any day over a "higher" numbered M car. Considering pretty much any review of the thing includes the phrase "BMW finally makes a proper M car again" I think you may want to think again. Especially now that the new M3/4 have been made to look radiculous with that grill. (yes, I made up a new word)
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      10-31-2019, 08:24 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feddersen View Post
In 2013 BMW said there will be no non-SUV Ms with AWD:

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=805747

Money talks and if a FWD based M will sell they will make it.

BTW: It took about 5 minutes to find the exact sales figures per make/model of 2018 in Germany. They are published here: https://www.kba.de/DE/Statistik/Fahr...ller_node.html (only in German)
Bingo! M will NEVER make FWD based vehicles, UNTIL THEY DO, OFCOURSE
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      10-31-2019, 08:43 PM   #39
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Its not about whether the AMG 45 models outsell BMWs M35 models, its a matter of whether the 45s (or RS3, etc.) sell enough for BMW to say hey, that piece of pie is big enough for us to justify the R&D to cut off a slice for ourselves. Thats the whole reason the 2GC was built at all, as BMW brass got tired of watching Audi and Mercedes sell thousands of A3s and CLAs every month while BMW had nothing comparable to offer. If an M2 Gran Coupe or X2 M looks like it would make enough money, theyll build it. If it looks like it would cannibalize other cars in the lineup and not make enough profit to justify, then they wont. Its that simple.
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      10-31-2019, 08:52 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRobUSC View Post
It's not about whether the AMG 45 models outsell BMW's M35 models, it's a matter of whether the 45's (or RS3, etc.) sell enough for BMW to say "hey, that piece of pie is big enough for us to justify the R&D to cut off a slice for ourselves." That's the whole reason the 2GC was built at all, as BMW brass got tired of watching Audi and Mercedes sell thousands of A3's and CLA's every month while BMW had nothing comparable to offer. If an M2 Gran Coupe or X2 M looks like it would make enough money, they'll build it. If it looks like it would cannibalize other cars in the lineup and not make enough profit to justify, then they won't. It's that simple.
Actually it's about recognizing that BMW already HAD the pie... from the E30 sedan, to the E36 .. to the E46... to the E90.

Then they decided to NOT build a compact four door sedan for over a decade while they made the 1 series .. and then continued to abandon that market while making the 2 series .. and now as the original 2er comes to an end ... they are finally realizing that they would like to have some of the market share that they abandoned when they previously felt that no one in the US would want a sedan smaller than an F30.

Mercedes and Audi moved right in.. BMW lost the luxury sales crown as a result.... and now .. a lukewarm FWD/AWD 2er gran coupe comes late to the party. :

And as others have mentioned .. just as BMW promised what M isn't in the past. .. they will change their mind on. M SAV for example.

Rather than " if you build it they will come ". BMW currently waits for others to build it... and then build a product to match.
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      10-31-2019, 09:06 PM   #41
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4 door M2 would be clutch
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      10-31-2019, 09:11 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feddersen View Post
Let's mark this thread and return in 6-8 years to discuss

If the CLA45 outsells the M235i Gran Coupe/M2/M240i Coupe they will for sure reconsider a FWD-biased true M.
Or slap two more doors on the RWD coupe. Understand the space issues, but that's the formula that will trump the CLA45.
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      10-31-2019, 09:25 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by 535i MSport View Post
I think there should be an E36 sized 4 door M car......
There is one in the US. You just have to find them used
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      10-31-2019, 09:51 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feddersen View Post
In 2013 BMW said there will be no non-SUV Ms with AWD:

https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=805747

Money talks and if a FWD based M will sell they will make it.

BTW: It took about 5 minutes to find the exact sales figures per make/model of 2018 in Germany. They are published here: https://www.kba.de/DE/Statistik/Fahr...ller_node.html (only in German)
Yep, this one quote is the clause

"It's not a change in philosophy, it's a change in technology.
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