[Maximus_]

Darrel grenaded his motor on full e85. He did hundreds of runs on his e50-e69 DI setup.

Mike was saying it maxes out at E50. I am saying it's not and there's still plenty of room to make power.

[TopJimmy]

I’m currently working with Paul on my G80 tunes, which will be 93 daily, ~E50 race, and ~E85 extreme race maps. My F8X had four Paul tunes, so I’ve learned a little along the way…

On the stock S58 turbos (the demand) and stock fueling (the supply) the fuel system limit for a daily driven map is E45-50. Targeting max performance at E45 leaves a little headroom (safety margin) for changes in fuel system health, fuel quality, aging spark plugs, etc. The tuner usually offers this as a safe but satisfying performance level that shouldn’t be breaking anything on customer’s engines.

Now a race tune…that’s where you push limits and risk breaking stuff in trading your headroom for more power. If your car ran fine on E45 now you try E50, then E55-60 all while watching logs for fuel system instability and fuel trimming up/down. You keep pushing while watching HPFPs don’t max out. At this level your fuel mix and quality MUST ALWAYS be perfect, as you’ve taken up all the headroom in your fuel systems ability to “adapt up” to a deficiency. Any deficiency causing a lean-out and you will detonate. This map is no longer safe for daily use.

Above is why the safe limit is E45 and some get away with E50-60. Any E% above this and you need to limit timing/boost in the high RPMs because the fuel system is maxed out and there’s no headroom left.

[papaman1234]

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

I’m currently working with Paul on my G80 tunes, which will be 93 daily, ~E50 race, and ~E85 extreme race maps. My F8X had four Paul tunes, so I’ve learned a little along the way…

On the stock S58 turbos (the demand) and stock fueling (the supply) the fuel system limit for a daily driven map is E45-50. Targeting max performance at E45 leaves a little headroom (safety margin) for changes in fuel system health, fuel quality, aging spark plugs, etc. The tuner usually offers this as a safe but satisfying performance level that shouldn’t be breaking anything on customer’s engines.

Now a race tune…that’s where you push limits and risk breaking stuff in trading your headroom for more power. If your car ran fine on E45 now you try E50, then E55-60 all while watching logs for fuel system instability and fuel trimming up/down. You keep pushing while watching HPFPs don’t max out. At this level your fuel mix and quality MUST ALWAYS be perfect, as you’ve taken up all the headroom in your fuel systems ability to “adapt up” to a deficiency. Any deficiency causing a lean-out and you will detonate. This map is no longer safe for daily use.

Above is why the safe limit is E45 and some get away with E50-60. Any E% above this and you need to limit timing/boost in the high RPMs because the fuel system is maxed out and there’s no headroom left.

Now Paul tunes up to e55.. why is that if the fuel limit is like e45?

[TopJimmy]

Originally Posted by papaman1234

Now Paul tunes up to e55.. why is that if the fuel limit is like e45?

Because I’ve asked to push my limits and I understand the risk of blowing things up. We proceed very carefully now…

[papaman1234]

Originally Posted by TopJimmy

Because I’ve asked to push my limits and I understand the risk of blowing things up. We proceed very carefully now…

Is it safe that Paul tunes on e55? I’m trying to tune with him but their telling me they get the best results with e55.

[TopJimmy]

Originally Posted by papaman1234

Is it safe that Paul tunes on e55? I’m trying to tune with him but their telling me they get the best results with e55.

Do what they say. Its all based on your logs and how your fuel system reacts.

[CameronM2LCI]

I am currently running Paul’s E55 map and can say it’s certainly hitting the limits of the stock fueling system. Keep an eye on your mixture and keep it between E52-E55. The power delivery is very strong but what makes this critical is when your in 5th+ gear. If your E mix is too high or too low you will be pulling timing from leaning out either due to not enough octane (low E content) or fuel system is unable to keep up regardless of Sufficient E (fuel pumps not keeping up).

I have since went ahead and grabbed a PI, LPFP, Motiv +, and will be tuning on full E with Paul 🔥

[TopJimmy]

Originally Posted by CameronM2LCI

I am currently running Paul’s E55 map and can say it’s certainly hitting the limits of the stock fueling system. Keep an eye on your mixture and keep it between E52-E55. The power delivery is very strong but what makes this critical is when your in 5th+ gear. If your E mix is too high or too low you will be pulling timing from leaning out either due to not enough octane (low E content) or fuel system is unable to keep up regardless of Sufficient E (fuel pumps not keeping up).

I have since went ahead and grabbed a PI, LPFP, Motiv +, and will be tuning on full E with Paul 🔥

Thank you bro. That’s a prime example of what I described as trading your fueling headroom for more power…to a limit. So far I’ve seen my push from E45 to E50-55 starting to show in my LPFP values, but not in the red zone yet.

[SwankPeRFection]

Or you could just upgrade some components with Spool Performance stuff and not have to bother too much with PI.

[CameronM2LCI]

Oh yeah I understood what you meant by what you were saying; however, I know that this can be somewhat confusing for others as for many this is new territory and they are unsure of what is going on if the car reacts or behaves a certain way while tuning. Both what you and I are saying certainly helps shed light for others so they know what to look out for. Goal here is to make the most power as safe as possible and reduce the number of potential grenaded motors 😮‍💨

It’s very important to pay attention to how the car is reacting to these tunes, if something is off then immediately let off and inform your tuner. Even the best of tuners may push a component a little past its comfort zone so catching it early and have them dial some parameters back is key here.

My last revision with Paul I had him dial the boost back a bit because I was noticing break up (up top). Car feels much better now and Timing, AFR’s in the logs agree with me.

My 2 cents here preferably is get upgraded injectors, fuel lines, Aux LPFP, (maybe PI) and wait for bm3 to release their Controller but that’s a lot of extra cheddar.

💸💸💸

[papaman1234]

Originally Posted by CameronM2LCI

Oh yeah I understood what you meant by what you were saying; however, I know that this can be somewhat confusing for others as for many this is new territory and they are unsure of what is going on if the car reacts or behaves a certain way while tuning. Both what you and I are saying certainly helps shed light for others so they know what to look out for. Goal here is to make the most power as safe as possible and reduce the number of potential grenaded motors 😮‍💨

It’s very important to pay attention to how the car is reacting to these tunes, if something is off then immediately let off and inform your tuner. Even the best of tuners may push a component a little past its comfort zone so catching it early and have them dial some parameters back is key here.

My last revision with Paul I had him dial the boost back a bit because I was noticing break up (up top). Car feels much better now and Timing, AFR’s in the logs agree with me.

My 2 cents here preferably is get upgraded injectors, fuel lines, Aux LPFP, (maybe PI) and wait for bm3 to release their Controller but that’s a lot of extra cheddar.

💸💸💸

Tbh I’m thinking about just switching my tune to e55 by Paul. I’m currently on E40 running gtp motor sport tune.

[CameronM2LCI]

Is there any sort of issues you are running into with the GTP Motorsport tune or you just looking to spice it up a little more?

[papaman1234]

Originally Posted by CameronM2LCI

Is there any sort of issues you are running into with the GTP Motorsport tune or you just looking to spice it up a little more?

No issue, just spice it up a little more.

[CameronM2LCI]

Cool if you have the patience I would hold off on it if you looking to do PI, LPFP, or injectors sometime this year. As you will have to retune with Paul again anyways if that’s the case.

If you are not looking to push it any further in terms of adding parts then by all means I would do it sooner than later! 🔥

[evidence]

Injectors and HPFP are what get maxed out. Sure you might be able to run E100 at lower RPMs, but a dip at high RPM when demands are highest..

Personally scared to run PI for extra fueling after all the grenading stories. Having 2 separate systems that aren't exactly integrated runs some risks. Why are people wanting to go PI over upgrading components and letting the OEM DME control all fueling, cost?

[papaman1234]

Originally Posted by evidence

Injectors and HPFP are what get maxed out. Sure you might be able to run E100 at lower RPMs, but a dip at high RPM when demands are highest..

Personally scared to run PI for extra fueling after all the grenading stories. Having 2 separate systems that aren't exactly integrated runs some risks. Why are people wanting to go PI over upgrading components and letting the OEM DME control all fueling, cost?

Best bet to just go e50 then?

[evidence]

Originally Posted by papaman1234

Best bet to just go e50 then?

Yeah as many mention E50 is a good target.