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      01-08-2020, 09:40 PM   #45
clee1982
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Well, get the last V8 while you can, not sure why BMW so cautious about EV, other than the US almost all developed countries (+China) is pretty set on working towards EV.

Maybe BMW's hybrid will be amazing enough it can play the game for long before full EV.
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      01-08-2020, 10:31 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Phase-out of fossil fuel vehicles: see here.
"A partial ban enacted in 2012 by California, requiring that 15% of new vehicles offered for sale between 2018 and 2025 must be Zero Emission Vehicles ZEVs) in order for the automaker to sell any vehicles in the state, has yielded 8% compliance"
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      01-09-2020, 02:46 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Some BMW execs could use a pair of glasses to adjust their myopic business eyesight.
Thanks for this interesting perspective. I have a few questions though.

1. Ultimately cameras became functionality housed within mobile phones. Who, in Kodak's hay day, would have had the foresight and vision to realize this. Even if they correctly interpreted their business and asked the right questions, who could have possibly known then, how things would eventually evolve. Truly brilliant visionaries are an extreme rarity, and hind sight is 20/20. Retrospective analyses are interesting, but in our era it won't necessarily help predict how markets might eventually evolve in the future. Often the brilliant visionaries themselves, who shape future markets, owe at least partial credit to accident and fate to find their niche.

2. Even if someone at Kodak was a brilliant visionary who had predicted the future, could they have convinced everyone else to be on board? Drastically changing direction often means lost jobs, turmoil, expense, and butting up against others who can't possibly share your vision. This will never change. It's why there are so many stories of geniuses who were tragically ahead of their time.

3. How much investment would be required for a company like Kodak to change direction? This was a company that was invested in film based photography despite having some fledgling interest in digital photography. Who was better poised to capitalize on digital photography, companies dedicated to electronics and computing like sony, or a company who grew on film technology? Which company had the expertise and resources to most efficiently adopt the new platform? Kodak would have required a complete paradigm shift and all the challenges that entails.
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      01-09-2020, 06:17 AM   #48
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I agree with the need to embrace change but this should be consumer led. Digital photography was much more convenient for the consumer and cheaper and did not require the consumer to have new plug points installed etc. Electric cars don't provide that degree of functional advantage to a similarly priced ICE car.
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      01-09-2020, 11:10 AM   #49
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      01-09-2020, 11:26 AM   #50
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I think we've veered off topic.

Irrespective of why the world is moving toward EVs (and our personal opinions about the wisdom therein or the parties responsible), we all acknowledge that the shift is afoot.

There is significant criticism here directed at BMW's pace and general strategy. But I have not seen anyone offer up and alternate timeline for ICE phase-out. Nor for that matter, have I seen a similar exercise covering BMW's traditional competitors to demonstrate where BMW is off the mark.
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      01-09-2020, 11:37 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
I think we've veered off topic.

Irrespective of why the world is moving toward EVs (and our personal opinions about the wisdom therein or the parties responsible), we all acknowledge that the shift is afoot.

There is significant criticism here directed at BMW's pace and general strategy. But I have not seen anyone offer up and alternate timeline for ICE phase-out. Nor for that matter, have I seen a similar exercise covering BMW's traditional competitors to demonstrate where BMW is off the mark.
No one on this forum is going to accurately predict if the ICE phase out should be 2030/2040/2050. I think the point some people are trying to make is that it is obvious from this interview that BMW has a very conservative approach to offering a competitive mix of BEV vehicles, and as a result, it's costing them sales.
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      01-09-2020, 02:04 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
No one on this forum is going to accurately predict if the ICE phase out should be 2030/2040/2050.
No points are deducted for incorrect guesses. True, no points lost for jumping on the "sky-is-falling", reactionary, hand waving bandwagon either, but I like to think that the community has more imagination than that. And, as an aside, I will continue to move the purely political mud slinging elsewhere since that has no place in this thread nor this forum.

Quote:
I think the point some people are trying to make is that it is obvious from this interview that BMW has a very conservative approach to offering a competitive mix of BEV vehicles, and as a result, it's costing them sales.
It is costing them sales, but it's costing everyone else sales too.

BMW did drop the ball in not following up the i3 with a more diverse pure electric product portfolio. They had the advantage of being an earlier adopter, but they largely squandered it. They also lack a scalable dedicated EV vehicle architecture. These are fair criticisms. But they aren't the only one still building ICE vehicles, and they aren't the only automaker who will be doing so well into the future. Froehlich comes off as reluctant, and there is certainly some of that. I think there is also a point where you grow tired of all the rhetoric, and you know that those asking the questions aren't going to be satisfied regardless of what answers you give.
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      01-09-2020, 02:30 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stage IV View Post
...until they change their mind
Remember when they said, "there will never be an M SAV"?

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      01-10-2020, 11:14 PM   #54
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Highly doubt anything Bmw says
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      01-10-2020, 11:14 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
As someone who actually bought one of BMW's ActiveHybrid vehicles, it's my view that hybrids are actually the worst of both worlds. Now that battery tech has advanced to product affordable >200mi range vehicles, and gas is cheap (for now), a hybrid just adds complexity and offers none of the benefits of going gas-free.

Why bother plugging in every night (BMW's strategy) to get only 25 miles of range? You still have to go get gas, change oil, etc. If you're gonna plug in, just plug in and get the full/pure BEV experience.
It really depends on what your needs are, but I'm pretty happy with my 530e PHEV. And I'm in a very challenging situation from an EV perspective in that I had to bust up a sidewalk to get my EV charger installed curbside so I can charge on a public street in a major US city*. For me in the city, the EV range is more than worth plugging in every night. The charged capacity alongside regenerative braking allows me to drive on electric only for 90% of my drives. Only when I'm doing longer drives do I have to drop off and use gas. Oh, and the electric charges are only about $1 from a flat battery and even with today's cheap gas prices still is cheaper than gas.

* IMHO city drivers are the ones who would benefit from PHEV or BEV vehicles the most due to the constant stop and go traffic that EV excel at and the quietness will help city Quality of Life as well. That being said, installing a charger curbside like I did isn't a realistic solution. A much better solution would be installing EV chargers on every street using existing wiring on street lights and charging EV drivers the wholesale electricity cost to charge to move us past the infrastructure problem.
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      01-10-2020, 11:14 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LogicalApex View Post
* IMHO city drivers are the ones who would benefit from PHEV or BEV vehicles the most due to the constant stop and go traffic that EV excel at and the quietness will help city Quality of Life as well.
Quality of life is when I beat my Akrapovic CF M exhaust turbo overruns ricocheting off condos and office towers at 7am on a Sunday morning as I head to the country side drive.
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      01-10-2020, 11:14 PM   #57
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