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      05-23-2020, 08:52 AM   #1
GregW / Oregon
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BMW Board of Drivers survey asks about possible four cylinder hybrid M

Some of you that are enrolled in the "BMW Board of Drivers" may have also gotten the survey I received today. It starts out by asking if I still own my M4 Coupe. It goes through several questions, such as for my next vehicle would I consider a plug-in 4 cylinder hybrid if it was as fast and got better mileage than the present 6-cylinder, or a conventional hybrid.

Not surprisingly, BMW is obviously researching the market for hybridization along with IC downsizing for the next models in this segment, as Mercedes has already committed to with the C63. As much as we love our V8s and turbo-6s, the future is clear.
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      05-23-2020, 01:35 PM   #2
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      05-23-2020, 02:30 PM   #3
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      05-23-2020, 04:54 PM   #4
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BMW is sending the same survey to M5 owners asking them about going to a Six cylinder hybrid setup.

Personally I would be ok with a six cylinder hybrid as in the NSX and current F1 cars in an M3 or M5 but when we get to a 4 banger hybrid with close to 600 hp I rather go full out to a Taycan or BMW equivalent. At that point the IC fun level contribution is too small to matter and is mainly another source of complexity, fault, dirt and expensive maintenance.
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      05-23-2020, 05:27 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
BMW is sending the same survey to M5 owners asking them about going to a Six cylinder hybrid setup.

Personally I would be ok with a six cylinder hybrid as in the NSX and current F1 cars in an M3 or M5 but when we get to a 4 banger hybrid with close to 600 hp I rather go full out to a Taycan or BMW equivalent. At that point the IC fun level contribution is too small to matter and is mainly another source of complexity, fault, dirt and expensive maintenance.
When I can have pure electric with ten-minute recharge times and without all the extra battery weight then I might be interested. Until then, just no. And trying to fix those problems with a whiny small 4-cyl engine is strictly worse!

P.S. After buying M3s/M4s constantly for the last 25 years I've never once been sent a survey by BMW. Starting to feel unloved.
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      05-24-2020, 03:13 AM   #6
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Even if BMW keep its l6 or V8, the stricter noise laws in many countries will kill the exhaust note anyway. So I will accept hybrid l4 in future M car.

However, my concerns are the power delivery knowing that l4 is more "shaky" than l6 and V8, and, more importantly, the manual transmission. I cannot recall any vehicle that is both manual and hybrid. If BMW can integrate manual and hybrid together, that would be so sweet!
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      05-24-2020, 08:03 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbar View Post
When I can have pure electric with ten-minute recharge times and without all the extra battery weight then I might be interested. Until then, just no. And trying to fix those problems with a whiny small 4-cyl engine is strictly worse!

P.S. After buying M3s/M4s constantly for the last 25 years I've never once been sent a survey by BMW. Starting to feel unloved.
I wonder if they maybe are targeting newer (more recent) M owners who they expect are more likely to be open-minded. Not saying you individually are stubborn/resistant to change but we have all shown time and time again *cough*G80*cough that human beings are highly resistant to change. That only amplifies when we love something and have gotten used to experiencing it in a certain way.
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      05-24-2020, 01:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duky View Post
I wonder if they maybe are targeting newer (more recent) M owners who they expect are more likely to be open-minded. Not saying you individually are stubborn/resistant to change but we have all shown time and time again *cough*G80*cough that human beings are highly resistant to change. That only amplifies when we love something and have gotten used to experiencing it in a certain way.
It’s a random selection, Greg the author of this post is a long time M owner and pretty far from a millennial
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      05-24-2020, 08:14 PM   #9
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Definitely no
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      05-24-2020, 10:11 PM   #10
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I guess we would all be P-car drivers! (though sadly the P would stand for Prius)
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      05-25-2020, 10:23 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
It’s a random selection, Greg the author of this post is a long time M owner and pretty far from a millennial
Definitely not a millennial - 72 next month. The Board of Drivers is something I got an invitation to a long time ago (had M3/M4s since 2001). I don't get much from them; I assume everyone on that list got the survey.
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      05-25-2020, 10:28 AM   #12
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Hybrid 4?

Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Personally I would be ok with a six cylinder hybrid as in the NSX and current F1 cars in an M3 or M5 but when we get to a 4 banger hybrid with close to 600 hp I rather go full out to a Taycan or BMW equivalent. At that point the IC fun level contribution is too small to matter and is mainly another source of complexity, fault, dirt and expensive maintenance
I think an intermediate step (not likely here) could be a "mild hybrid" like my 2020 GLE. I-6 with integrated 48V ISG and fairly small battery so not a huge weight penalty. Adds torque, eliminates any turbo lag and makes the start/stop system seamless. Could have a short all-electric mode.
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      05-25-2020, 11:19 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
I think an intermediate step (not likely here) could be a "mild hybrid" like my 2020 GLE. I-6 with integrated 48V ISG and fairly small battery so not a huge weight penalty. Adds torque, eliminates any turbo lag and makes the start/stop system seamless. Could have a short all-electric mode.
BMW already said they will add 48V mild hybrid to the S58 at some point of its life circle, which is a good thing.

However, the plug in is definitely a show stopper.
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      05-25-2020, 12:09 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
BMW already said they will add 48V mild hybrid to the S58 at some point of its life circle, which is a good thing.

However, the plug in is definitely a show stopper.

Maybe they could install a "3rd Rail" at all the local tracks?

Or even better:
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      05-26-2020, 06:15 PM   #15
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OT: 48V mild hybrid

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
BMW already said they will add 48V mild hybrid to the S58 at some point of its life circle, which is a good thing.

However, the plug in is definitely a show stopper.
BMW announced 48v mild hybrid system for 51 models: https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...or-summer-2020.

The BMW system is not as elegant as the Mercedes and some others as it is belt-driven instead of integrated.
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      05-27-2020, 11:33 AM   #16
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I'll consider it if they reduce curb weight to 1450kg.
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      05-28-2020, 01:15 AM   #17
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my survey said if i accept 4 cyl if it was slightly slower but got significantly better gas millage

my answer: are you crazy

no to hybrid BS.

interestingly there was no question about looks and aesthetics, there is no chance I buy the ugly beaver face renders that have been floating around. even if it were faster than a Ferrari.
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      06-02-2020, 07:33 PM   #18
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I also got the email but replied to a post on the F80 forum.

All of the questions were framed as to what my preference would be if a 6-cylinder gas engine M4 were not available.

The questions took you through several possible configurations starting from with a 4-cylinder that would have less power and would be slower, but have better gas mileage; a non-plug-in hybrid electric/gas 4-cylinder that had a regenerative engine that only recharged the batteries (like an i3 with the range extender) but got better gas mileage; or finally, a hybrid plug-in gas/electric with both a gas engine and an electric motor and that powered the wheels and would be faster and have better gas mileage (similar to the i8 drivetrain).

I replied that I would consider the latter. I have a 6.3kW ground-mount solar array on my property and 2 Tesla Powerwall 2 home battery storage systems, so this would be an appealing option for me.

If this theoretical vehicle could be recharged, got better mileage, and was faster than the other options, and faster than my M4, I'd definitely be interested. It would have to have the same or better level of handling than my current M4 though.
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      06-03-2020, 04:46 AM   #19
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I think it is inevitable -- even Porsche can't escape it. The 992 chassis is designed for hybridization, and rumors say that the MY2024+ 992.2 Porsche 911 Turbo S will be a hybrid, and so will the 992.2 GT3 RS.
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      06-03-2020, 05:05 PM   #20
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Yes. If its something like this https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...pecs-analysis/ but with four cylinders.
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      06-04-2020, 04:27 PM   #21
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Has everyone forgotten that the M3 started off as a 4 cylinder? I'm all for this. Hybrid technology has come a long way. Give me the performance and the emotion and we'll be good. Yes, you can make a 4 cylinder sound amazing. AMG has done it.
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