[Froggie401]

Very interesting thread. I recently had my car ceramic coated with Gtechniq - it cost €1,000 euro including the prep. The results were great. My car is almost 3 years old and only had some very light swirls etc.

However, 3 months later when my car was in for a brake fluid change at the main dealer they washed the car using their machine wash in error after being told repeatedly not to. As result, my car has light swirl marks, especially along the wings and has to be re-polished and re-coated. The main dealer has accepted full responsibility but it's still a major hassle and somewhat disappointing that the coating provides such little protection.

I am planning on buying a new 4 series next year and think I will look at PFF for the bonnet, front bumper and wings similar to what @[Beemer5to3] has done above. I will need to do some more research.

[ZedsRedBaby]

Originally Posted by paulockenden

My car has a nice film applied to the paintwork. It consists mostly of dust and road spray. Last cleaned the car about a year ago.

It goes with my ethos of wanting to drive something that looks anonymous, not a target. Oh, and I’m very lazy too!

Wow! I thought I was pretty bone idle but I take my hat off

[stu14t]

Originally Posted by Froggie401

However, 3 months later when my car was in for a brake fluid change at the main dealer they washed the car using their machine wash in error after being told repeatedly not to.

I bought one of these to stick on the mirror when in the dealers:

[Froggie401]

Originally Posted by stu14t

I bought one of these to stick on the mirror when in the dealers:

Great idea, it's so ridiculous though, I wrote it clearly on the web check in form, I said it to the guy in the service department handing him my key, he wrote it on the key back and front and put a sheet of paper in the car saying do not wash and it was still washed! I don't think they will do it to me again, but you never know....

I don't even know why main dealers still have brush washes. There are obviously a lot more expensive cars being serviced/repaired there than mine. Who in their right mind would want a brush wash for their car?

[peelerec]

Originally Posted by Beemer5to3

peelerec completely agree. Maintaining a coating takes care, I.e. maintenance washing yourself or having an experienced valeter doing it every 4 weeks max. The only thing I’d add, there should be no need for “topper” products, as with the right wash maintenance a coating should last the time it’s supposed to. I will still use Gyeon QD from time to time though, as I do think it enhances the shine even further.

I personally love using Beadmaker or Obsessed Garage Drying Aid during my maintenance washes as it is an economical way to ensure my car is always as hydrophobic as possible, especially now that I just recently moved to northers California where in two weeks it has rained more than the entire year compared to back home in Southern California, lol.

[thescouselander]

Originally Posted by peelerec

I concur. The only additional value I can add is that some people see diminishing results from a proper coating due to not caring for the coating properly and failing to maintain the coating. For someone who hand washes there car on a regular basis, it should be relatively easy (ie. purchasing a maintenance sealant or even just using a ceramic drying aid during the weekly/biweekly basis).

@thescouselander Coatings do in fact work. It is not anecdotal experience, it is science. The issue most people have is what I mentioned above. But at the end of the day, it is always subjective as to what people deem to be properly maintaining there vehicle.
However, with that said, (Professional and even some consumer grade) Ceramic Coatings do in fact work.

If an individual does not wash a vehicle with two bucket method, light pressure, blow dry or drying aid with towel, then I can see why people would claim coatings are "snake oil". Do not blame the product, user negligence.

Science? Where is the science? What is in these products that somehow provide a miraculous level of protection and being so sturdy to do that for many years yet which can be removed very easily by careless washing but somehow not by the eliments and weather cars are subjected to? Can you not see the contradiction here?

One has to question how the active ingredient (usually Sio2) forms a continuous structure that is both as strong as claimed and which bonds so well to a surface that has been polished to be very smooth (ie not keyed in). I've read all sorts of nonsense like the sealer makes a chemical bond to the clearcoat but that doesn't really make sense because if this did happen the coating and clearcoat would turn into a new compound which doesn't actually seem to happen and in any case silicon dioxide is pretty inert so a reaction wouldn't be expected. . What is more likely is that these coatings adhere to the paint the same as any other coating and as such they get erroded over time by the weather etc.

It's also a red flag that only very specific formulations of this technology are said (here) to be effective after being applied using special techniques only available to a small pool of expert detailers.

The fact is its very difficult to find any proper scientific study (and I'm not talking about scientific sounding marketing blurb) on how these sealants work or their effectiveness. I'm not saying they do nothing at all but I do think ceramic sealants are broadly equivalent to the more conventional type and the claims of lasting performance over a year or more are not backed up by any substance. Or to put it another way I reckon these coatings are just bog standard hydrophobic silica that can be found in all sorts of products that only cost a few quid.

[paulockenden]

If these coatings really were the magic stuff that the marketing suggests then surely they be applied by bmw at the factory, as part of the manufacturing process?

It all seems a bit Emperors New Clothes to me.

[jon0]

Just note PPF is a modification for insurance purposes.

I had PPFed (myself - that was fun - my old M140i) which was then in a prang and need repainting. Bodyshop kicked up right fuss about having to remove so I popped over and did myself.

I had Gtechniq ceramic applied to new Audi (back in 2012) and lasted really well provide you took care cleaning yourself.

I'm having same dilemma on a new Porkie but erring on not ppfing at the moment.

[225]

Originally Posted by Froggie401

Great idea, it's so ridiculous though, I wrote it clearly on the web check in form, I said it to the guy in the service department handing him my key, he wrote it on the key back and front and put a sheet of paper in the car saying do not wash and it was still washed! I don't think they will do it to me again, but you never know....

I don't even know why main dealers still have brush washes. There are obviously a lot more expensive cars being serviced/repaired there than mine. Who in their right mind would want a brush wash for their car?

Don't forget most people couldn't give a to55 and a car is just a car. So long as it looks shiny they dont see swirl marks etc

[peelerec]

Originally Posted by thescouselander

Science? Where is the science? What is in these products that somehow provide a miraculous level of protection and being so sturdy to do that for many years yet which can be removed very easily by careless washing but somehow not by the eliments and weather cars are subjected to? Can you not see the contradiction here?

One has to question how the active ingredient (usually Sio2) forms a continuous structure that is both as strong as claimed and which bonds so well to a surface that has been polished to be very smooth (ie not keyed in). I've read all sorts of nonsense like the sealer makes a chemical bond to the clearcoat but that doesn't really make sense because if this did happen the coating and clearcoat would turn into a new compound which doesn't actually seem to happen and in any case silicon dioxide is pretty inert so a reaction wouldn't be expected. . What is more likely is that these coatings adhere to the paint the same as any other coating and as such they get erroded over time by the weather etc.

It's also a red flag that only very specific formulations of this technology are said (here) to be effective after being applied using special techniques only available to a small pool of expert detailers.

The fact is its very difficult to find any proper scientific study (and I'm not talking about scientific sounding marketing blurb) on how these sealants work or their effectiveness. I'm not saying they do nothing at all but I do think ceramic sealants are broadly equivalent to the more conventional type and the claims of lasting performance over a [...]

The reason the positive effects of ceramic coating seem to deter after a few weeks is again always from improper washing techniques and/or dirt accumulatio(ie snow, salts, mud). There are methods to restore the ceramic coating via APC dilutions and chemicals sold to pair with ceramic coating maintenance. If you have the time, I encourage watching this video. Pan is a mechanical engineer by trade turned pro detailer and has interviewed multiple chemists from these known brands to explain the science behind ceramic coating and graphene coatings.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=tC-YpSGawRU&feature=shares

[Hofmeister Kink]

Interesting thread and, naturally, some polarising views. I’d agree it would be interesting for an independent body to validate the manufacturers’ claims. Maybe that exists but I’ve not seen it.

The other factor in all of this that hasn’t been mentioned is cost of application (and ongoing maintenance) relative to the list price of the car. I’d propose a figure of 1%. Could I justify a £1k detailers bill if I’d just driven out of a Porsche dealership in a brand new GT3? Yes, no problem. But a Dacia Sandero - no way! I consider the £400 for BMW Protect X I have on my car (even though I got it thrown in with the deal) to be in proportion to the £40k list price of the car. I’d need to be convinced that I was going to get at least some of the money back on resale if I spent more.

[vadimo]

This video was good, testing 3 months bonnet split into 3 sections

https://youtu.be/jF6g8VHBYuU

Also after full year

https://youtu.be/DaR4UZDKQso

I have full PPF booked for Tuesday 😀