[TruthOne]

Originally Posted by TheMaxXHD

It's shocking to me how many people lease cars. And upgrade all the time. Nothing against it, but it's just odd to me. I guess that's why I don't seem to connect with these complaints the same way some of you do. Not that they aren't valid, it's just that I'd never consider going from a pre LCI to LCI, because I'd be upgrading from a vehicle 10 years ago like I am now.

I just don't connect with these downgrade issues because I want to keep my vehicles long enough for any "upgrade" to be a proper upgrade. I don't have any drive modes, no apple CarPlay, no ambient lighting at all. I'm just going to be happy I get drive modes at all, a nice big screen, and at least some ambient lighting. A missing light in a door cup holder is just, kinda meh, because right now, my E90 has 0 ambient lighting. It's good to call out BMW ofc for these cutbacks, but it's hard to say it's disappointing for anyone who doesn't upgrade every 3-4 years.

If this were me, I'd buy out the pre LCI leases y'all have, and enjoy the vehicles and upgrade when it makes more sense from a feature and financial standpoint.

Yeah, I leased my current car right when Covid hit because I was working from home and didn't feel buying made sense. Normally I finance but this was also my first BMW and wanted to see how I liked it too.

[bavarianride]

I am in similar camp of buy to own for 10 yrs/100k miles, so I don't pay much attention to gadgets like ambient light and such.

My current pre-LCI G20 330i does not have ambient, nor even pre-LCI digital dash. Instead it has the last great analog gauges from BMW, with nostalgic Nav directions on the analog (small) screens.

Having said that, one glaring cutback from pre-LCI to LCI is that the LED headlight cannot swivel, that really sucks as swiveling headlights for sure is one of the most useful features of any car(not just BMW).

Originally Posted by TheMaxXHD

It's shocking to me how many people lease cars. And upgrade all the time. Nothing against it, but it's just odd to me. I guess that's why I don't seem to connect with these complaints the same way some of you do. Not that they aren't valid, it's just that I'd never consider going from a pre LCI to LCI, because I'd be upgrading from a vehicle 10 years ago like I am now.

I just don't connect with these downgrade issues because I want to keep my vehicles long enough for any "upgrade" to be a proper upgrade. I don't have any drive modes, no apple CarPlay, no ambient lighting at all. I'm just going to be happy I get drive modes at all, a nice big screen, and at least some ambient lighting. A missing light in a door cup holder is just, kinda meh, because right now, my E90 has 0 ambient lighting. It's good to call out BMW ofc for these cutbacks, but it's hard to say it's disappointing for anyone who doesn't upgrade every 3-4 years.

If this were me, I'd buy out the pre LCI leases y'all have, and enjoy the vehicles and upgrade when it makes more sense from a feature and financial standpoint.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by TheStoic

Can you explain this battery control function vs. battery hold?

There's a topic discussing it here.

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1968613

[BullitX]

Originally Posted by TheStoic

Can you explain this battery control function vs. battery hold?

As HighlandPete has mentioned above, there is a already a thread regarding this that goes a bit more in depth, but just in case TLDR;

In the BMW's with hybrid powertrains there is a button (usually next to the shifter) with a battery icon. What "mode" this button activates and does you will read below:

Pre-LCI 3 series:
- Battery Control: The infotainment screen will pop-up with a Battery Control screen where you select the battery percentage you wish to have, (30-100%). If the battery percentage is lower than your set target, the car will use the combustion engine as a generator to recharge your battery (and does so way faster than plugging your car mind you!) until your set target is reached.

LCI 3 series:
- Battery Hold (Battery Control is gone, it is replaced with this): It holds your current battery level, by not letting the electric drivetrain use the battery. No recharging via ICE here, no option to set battery target.
Only way to recharge is recuperation or plugging-in.

[KM340i]

Originally Posted by TheMaxXHD

It's shocking to me how many people lease cars. And upgrade all the time. Nothing against it, but it's just odd to me. I guess that's why I don't seem to connect with these complaints the same way some of you do. Not that they aren't valid, it's just that I'd never consider going from a pre LCI to LCI, because I'd be upgrading from a vehicle 10 years ago like I am now.

I just don't connect with these downgrade issues because I want to keep my vehicles long enough for any "upgrade" to be a proper upgrade. I don't have any drive modes, no apple CarPlay, no ambient lighting at all. I'm just going to be happy I get drive modes at all, a nice big screen, and at least some ambient lighting. A missing light in a door cup holder is just, kinda meh, because right now, my E90 has 0 ambient lighting. It's good to call out BMW ofc for these cutbacks, but it's hard to say it's disappointing for anyone who doesn't upgrade every 3-4 years.

If this were me, I'd buy out the pre LCI leases y'all have, and enjoy the vehicles and upgrade when it makes more sense from a feature and financial standpoint.

I am also in this camp after reading through this thread. I have only bought 3 cars since the late 1990s as my LCI just came in. I think the car is amazing for people like us where it’s a bigger change versus coming out of a pre-LCI of the same car. My last car was a 2007 and it was still 9/10 inside, mechanical and electronics were still excellent and only the exterior needed some cosmetic updates from door dings etc (my cars are often parked in congested areas where people don’t care about you or anything else for another thread). I just wanted something new after 15+ years on that car. My car before that was also over 10.

My last car I traded I got new in 2007 and the Nav and Radio and a lot of other controls had no hard buttons, it was also touch screen. So for me the iDrive 8 is simply another system to learn but it’s a lot faster, looks nicer, and is much bigger screen size so I feel like I won overall (it’s not perfect but no system has been for me on any car). My test drive was on a 2022 pre-LCI and I found that setup fine but it didn’t seem modern enough for me. It felt like I was still in 2007 and was sold on what the LCI was going to be to order. I had to guesstimate an LCI 340 driving experience based on many other cars I had driven in my life and once it got here I am pretty pleased. I was nervous as at the time I ordered it the photos did look like maybe they threw an iPad on the dash and moved on, but in person it’s a design I have quickly grown to like and does not “feel cheap”.

So general thoughts on the thread:

I got most options I care about, hands free tail, power lumbar etc. The LED headlights are excellent for my tastes and I’m either city driving where blinding everyone else isn’t a good thing or I’m out of the city blasting down roads I know well and can see fine. When I pull up to my garage I have a long dark driveway and the cornering lights come on when I’m turning in and it’s fantastic for me. I don’t miss any cubby and extra interior lights (there are already too many with this ambient glows). I have a non-adaptive M suspension and I find it even with the awful roads around me, just fine. I’m used to pretty stiff rides on cars I have driven or owned. My wife has a puffy yet sportyish SUV and if I really wanted that type of ride I would look at other vehicles. The car is not perfect, for example I also despise that the passenger side netting in the trunk is not there because it just looks so weird to me. I agree with a bunch of complaints others have listed. The cost cutting is not great but I feel I agree BMW has done enough in these times to make me purchase one of these anyway. All companies, in all industries are taking things away and raising prices. I don’t see an end to this without a solid recession or an expanded war in the west. If this continues cars in a few years will have even less for more.

I think the one major thing I miss at times is all my cars I have owned my entire life were manual transmissions but that is another thread. The LCI switch works great once I got used to it. I have “air shifted” out of habit a few times but that will go away I’m sure. I don’t miss an automatic shifter because it’s just not a manual, it’s just a longer switch to me.

I should really also concede that I grew up broke for context. My first car the drivers side windshield wiper rusted so badly the second week I owned the car it flew off the car. I couldn’t afford to repair it and used a winter glove to hang out the window and wipe rain and snow off here and there. I had electrical gremlins so the radio never worked. The headlights often would not come on and I still drove it. You couldn’t lock the car. It was rear wheel drive and you had to spin your way up a hill in the snow for 30 minutes to get up one street. I drove it like this for 2 years. I can keep going on several cars after this with frustrating issues. But as I got older and worked hard… I have also driven many excellent high end cars and exotics so I’m well aware of what cars can be.

For the money the LCI M340 is still remarkable for me. There are plenty of cars that cost much more that I just don’t like. As I don’t buy cars often, I like to get things right for my current tastes. I would still buy it again and in the big scheme of things I have little to complain about. It’s not perfect, but I have yet to drive a perfect car. I think it does most things really, really well and I hope I will also own this car for many years like my last couple. Why I didn’t go with an M3 or other choices is another whole thread so I will skip this.

Given the times we are in when you put the news on….this car is a shining light in the darkness. I think the looks are excellent, the driving is on point for what I think this car aims to be. I often conjure up stupid errands just to take it for a ride. It’s really, really enjoyable to drive despite not being a manual. I test drove dozens and dozens of cars to land on this particular car, no regrets for me.

Ultimately if you have a pre-LCI and that is a car you really prefer than I agree it’s a no brainer to stick with that. In the end it’s all taste and I much prefer the LCI, cost cutting and all.

[kbmwjo22]

I'm a first-time BMW owner, so maybe that's why I don't have nearly the complaints as many people that have been with the brand for a long time.

That being said, there are some features I lost from my 2021 Mazda 6, coming to a '23 330i M-Sport. The one I miss the most is the adaptive/radar cruise control. Man, that is nice. And then secondary things I miss are heated and ventilated seats (I thought my build came with at least heated seats, but it did not; I'm in FL so it's OK). The hi-fi sound system is somewhat lacking, especially coming from the Bose in the Mazda (I might look to upgrade this in the future). But I do like the new shifter concept; I think it's quite cool, actually.

I'm a big fan of the IDrive 8 screen and functionality for the most part. I really dig using voice commands for navigation (instead of using Waze on CarPlay). There's just a few things that I'd like to be able to change about IDrive 8, like being able to show the tire pressure on the home screen in a widget. I just set climate control on "auto", and let it do its thing. I never really adjust the temp manually, and if I need to, it's not something I'm going thru windows of settings to do-it's right there.

I've got the Shadowline (plus?) package as well, and the lights seem just fine to me. They seem to cover a lot of road, and look sharp. But I have heard the laser lights from a few years ago are a better-not a big deal IMO.

Other things like seat adjustments, puddle lights, and the full-power tailgate are small potatoes to me.

All and all, this is a better car than the Mazda I'm coming from (which I got rid of due to some suspected mechanical issues), so I am pleased with my purchase.

[zazzau]

Originally Posted by BullitX

Add another one to the list:

The hybrid drivetrains in the LCI, doesnt have the Battery Control function anymore, its replaced with Battery Hold… works very differently and 100% a downgrade, had to cancel my order because of this, even though the dealer fought tooth and nail to try to convince me it worked the same way which it clearly didnt after testing it myself….

Why is Battery Hold considered 100% downgrade in your books? I believe in Pre-LCI your gas milage would almost double while charging the battery. It won't be out of the question if BMW changed this behavior per emission standards. But yeah, this is another bad example of BMW's poor marketing and keeping the customer in the dark.

Personally I'd prefer the new option because it would appear to me that on Pre-LCI the cost outweighs the benefits with double gas consumption for battery recon. But I can see why certain customers will prefer Pre-LCI. Perhaps both options should have been made available to the consumer in the LCI but if this is about emission standards, as I suspect, then I can see why that isn't the case.

Maybe over time this is something that could be coded similar to the way you can code Range Extender on the i3. Point being that this is all software. I'd give it some time.

[BullitX]

Originally Posted by zazzau

Why is Battery Hold considered 100% downgrade in your books? I believe in Pre-LCI your gas milage would almost double while charging the battery. It won't be out of the question if BMW changed this behavior per emission standards. But yeah, this is another bad example of BMW's poor marketing and keeping the customer in the dark.

Personally I'd prefer the new option because it would appear to me that on Pre-LCI the cost outweighs the benefits with double gas consumption for battery recon. But I can see why certain customers will prefer Pre-LCI. Perhaps both options should have been made available to the consumer in the LCI but if this is about emission standards, as I suspect, then I can see why that isn't the case.

Maybe over time this is something that could be coded similar to the way you can code Range Extender on the i3. Point being that this is all software. I'd give it some time.

I consider it a downgrade since you can emulate the Battery Hold function with Battery Control, but you cant do that the other way around.
Also emissions wise, yes using the ICE is less efficient, yes the consumption goes up, but if you use the ICE to charge during cruising on highways, you can drive fully electric in the city, where fuel consumption and emissions are way higher than during the highway charging…

Also as far as I know, the emissions calculation of a car does not take in account the different modes a car has, because if that was the case, then they would've removed Sport and Sport Plus and force every manufacturer to use ECO PRO modes.
So for purely emissions standpoint it wouldn't have mattered.

BMW should've been more transparant with their LCI changes and offer drivers what mode to use instead of deciding it for us…

[KM340i]

Originally Posted by BullitX

BMW should've been more transparant with their LCI changes and offer drivers what mode to use instead of deciding it for us…

I think this sort of nails the whole thing really. I am obviously happy with the car based on what I posted above and would buy it again based on what I got. However, it is really clear that BMW should be more clear about what is going on for modes, options, features, all of it. I took a big leap and it worked out generally for me, not perfect of course.

If BMW is not managing expectations and saying to dealers tell prospective buyers the following, then you will end up with a lot of disappointed people at varying degrees. Broken record maybe but my dealer really was not sure what the outcome was going to be when I ordered. There was this general sense of things, but to say to me we don't know what options and features may or may not be available when your car is built it not ideal very obviously.

I can write a ton of examples like the power lumbar I got in my car. Total luck that I wanted the leather upgrade...and then got it. There was no mention that it may be missing if I didn't get upgraded leather. It does amount to another disappointment for me also that on the passenger side it's not there.

There is clearly a good amount of confusion on what each optional thing really gets you. This I agree is poor marketing. I was also forced into a couple of options later on during the build once it went to scheduled for production, that the dealer and I did not discuss? It was based on other options I had picked, that we did not know triggered other stuff. It made sense, but just was not discussed.

I also admit my 2007 vehicle I traded and my wife's 2014 SUV (both are not BMWs) have features that this car does not. That kind of thing I just accept since it's a different brand. It is what it is for me.

Hopefully BMW will address this. If buyers knew up front more, than of course anyone's expectations could be more easily managed, or they could even opt for another vehicle. It's simple as that.

[zazzau]

Originally Posted by BullitX

I consider it a downgrade since you can emulate the Battery Hold function with Battery Control, but you cant do that the other way around.
Also emissions wise, yes using the ICE is less efficient, yes the consumption goes up, but if you use the ICE to charge during cruising on highways, you can drive fully electric in the city, where fuel consumption and emissions are way higher than during the highway charging…

Also as far as I know, the emissions calculation of a car does not take in account the different modes a car has, because if that was the case, then they would've removed Sport and Sport Plus and force every manufacturer to use ECO PRO modes.
So for purely emissions standpoint it wouldn't have mattered.

BMW should've been more transparant with their LCI changes and offer drivers what mode to use instead of deciding it for us…

I get your argument and I agree that the more options the merrier. Emission standards might not be so cut-dry. Using your example, I don't believe you can charge the car in ECO PRO. You'll need a mode that can charge it. The standards for full electric aren't necessarily same for ICE or hybrids.

In any case, using ICE as generator is nowhere near as efficient as just holding it where it may not need to engage the generator in the first place. That's just my personal opinion. But for obvious reasons I get why certain consumers would want to be able to recon on the go.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by BullitX

I consider it a downgrade since you can emulate the Battery Hold function with Battery Control, but you cant do that the other way around.

I think it is a downgrade since u can no longer set the battery % before entering town for EV driving in urban area.

But it may work the same for long drives, e.g. 400+ miles starting with a full-charge. In that scenario, there should be enough coasting along the the way to keep the battery topped off even without battery control mode.

[BullitX]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

I think it is a downgrade since u can no longer set the battery % before entering town for EV driving in urban area.

But it may work the same for long drives, e.g. 400+ miles starting with a full-charge. In that scenario, there should be enough coasting along the the way to keep the battery topped off even without battery control mode.

Sadly not. Unless you select the Battery Hold before you start driving, with a full battery.

Else, say you have 80% battery, and select Battery Hold, it will hold your battery at 80%. If you recuperate and it goes over this 80%, it will actually use it… at least thats what I have found in my testing. So the only way to "gain" battery charge is to quickly disable and then re-enable Battery Hold as soon as you got a few percentages back into the battery…

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by BullitX

Sadly not. Unless you select the Battery Hold before you start driving, with a full battery.

Else, say you have 80% battery, and select Battery Hold, it will hold your battery at 80%. If you recuperate and it goes over this 80%, it will actually use it… at least thats what I have found in my testing. So the only way to "gain" battery charge is to quickly disable and then re-enable Battery Hold as soon as you got a few percentages back into the battery…

Ah got it, so one needs to wait for those coasting opportunities and then disable battery hold and then re-enable to gradually recuperate the %.

I guess this LCI change really is to encourage 330e owners to plug in as much as possible.

[zazzau]

Originally Posted by BullitX

Else, say you have 80% battery, and select Battery Hold, it will hold your battery at 80%. If you recuperate and it goes over this 80%, it will actually use it… at least thats what I have found in my testing. the battery…

Just so I understand — if you recuperate to 81% as an example, the car will switch from ICE and start using battery moving forward? Or do you mean it will just use up the 1% "gained" but then HOLD at 80%? If the latter, then that makes sense because you are HOLDING the battery at a predefined percentage.

Anyway I think it's still a bummer for customers shopping for PHEV — although there should be a market for CPO particularly for folks who prefer the implementation on Pre-LCI.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by zazzau

Just so I understand — if you recuperate to 81% as an example, the car will switch from ICE and start using battery moving forward? Or do you mean it will just use up the 1% "gained" but then HOLD at 80%? If the latter, then that makes sense because you are HOLDING the battery at a predefined percentage.

My understanding, you can use any % from plug-in charge or recuperation, above your setting.

BATTERY HOLD
With BATTERY HOLD, the current charge of the high-voltage battery can be maintained and saved for a later point in the drive.

[zazzau]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

My understanding, you can use any % from plug-in charge or recuperation, above your setting.

Sure but current charge is not defined in the literature. Is that the charge at when you set it or does it include the charge moving forward. So perhaps that language needs to be clarified based on what OP is seeing in practice.

[BullitX]

Originally Posted by zazzau

Sure but current charge is not defined in the literature. Is that the charge at when you set it or does it include the charge moving forward. So perhaps that language needs to be clarified based on what OP is seeing in practice.

From my own testing on the highway, i have seen that when i recuperated above the limit when I pressed the Battery Hold, it will use what is "extra" but it seems to follow the logic of Hybrid drive mode, which in my testing seemed to favour ICE on highways.

To clarify, when I wanted to accelerate quickly, the "extra" electricity was used to boost acceleration, and then my battery level dropped back to the level I had when I pressed the button initially.

Also in E-drive zones, in cities, it will force the use of the battery if there is charge above the hold amount.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by BullitX

Also in E-drive zones, in cities, it will force the use of the battery if there is charge above the hold amount.

Does the car automatically detect E-drive zones? I do read that some European cities require EV-only@city centers, I do wonder how that is enforced. E.g. when 330e battery is out and the car switches to ICE, does the driver get fined?

[BullitX]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

Does the car automatically detect E-drive zones? I do read that some European cities require EV-only@city centers, I do wonder how that is enforced. E.g. when 330e battery is out and the car switches to ICE, does the driver get fined?

Yes the car automatically recognises E-drive zones and automatically switches to Electric mode.

As far as I know, as long as you have a plugin hybrid or electric vehicle, regardless if you drive on ICE (in the case of the plugin hybrid with empty battery), you can enter without problems.

But laws may vary per country, so I cannot give you a definitive answer to that question.

[RLL RACER]

Originally Posted by rctennis3811

even though some features were removed from the us market, including lowering the light output versus other markets, they still rated highest of all 3 pre-lci headlights according to the iihs.

Laserlight is gone in all lci g20s worldwide, but the new adaptive matrix led headlights (option 552) retain all of the good lighting tech...outside of the us again. And it seems like, according to folks here who have owned the pre-lci with laserlight and now own the lci, the new headlights are just not as good.

Frankly, i'm still hopeful that bmw will offer an ota upgrade via purchase through connecteddrive in the new year. The x7 lci doesn't have laserlight anymore, but in the "all you need to know" youtube video from bmw's official channel, they mention that there will be a lighting upgrade available in the future. Since the lighting is also adaptive matrix leds on that, i'm wondering if they mean it'll be an ota purchase.

See below at 4:02

b.s.the lci is a joke! Face it folks. Sorry.. Reality check!

[SoCalJon]

Originally Posted by zazzau

Using your example, I don't believe you can charge the car in ECO PRO. You'll need a mode that can charge it. The standards for full electric aren't necessarily same for ICE or hybrids.

The battery will recharge some in Hybrid EcoPro, from coasting/braking. Depending on the length of the trip and the road conditions, maybe a kWh, (+/-).

[SoCalJon]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

I think it is a downgrade since u can no longer set the battery % before entering town for EV driving in urban area.

If you use Hybrid EcoPro alongside navigation, the car does a REALLY good job conserving battery for the non-highway portions of your trip.

We did a 140+ mile round trip this week (with an overnight), with about 3-5 miles of neighborhood/city driving on each end. We put it in Hybrid EcoPro and gave it our destination. The car intelligently preserved enough battery for the end of our trip -- each time, it rolled into our destination having just finished depleting the battery.

Obviously, I never drove a pre-LCI 330e with Battery Control, so I can't compare it. Having said that, if it will do that consistently without me having to think about a hold%, then it may actually be an improvement.