[SteveinArizona]

Originally Posted by Sonic RR

Nothing is worse than current 7. I like this actually. Will do a better job of setting 2dr and 4dr apart. Flame away.

Nah. It is not for me but there are plenty of fish in the sea. Go for it!

[stein_325i]

100% agree with this article, more cars need to be designed with plates in mind https://jalopnik.com/attention-auto-...ist-1843925470

[snareman]

Originally Posted by jstein55

100% agree with this article, more cars need to be designed with plates in mind https://jalopnik.com/attention-auto-...ist-1843925470

Thankfully Ohio finally doesn't require them, but in general I don't know how they design these cars without apparently considering it.

[JDUNITNOW]

I don't know if I am considered a enthusiast or not. I have owned multiple BMW vehicles over the past 20 years and will always own one. I really like the new design and no matter how much criticism is thrown at it, I won't change my mind on purchasing it. As far as driving dynamics, I never push a car to its limits so it will drive well enough for me.

[themnmd]

Without!

[lalaso]

is it posible to upgrade this basic led lights to the new laser headlights?

[Leftcoast72]

I'm not sure what % of the people posting here have actually seen the grill in real life--I'm guessing that it's by far the minority. I just picked up my m440i just yesterday (Arctic Race Blue w/Cerium Grey--ordered in mid Feb). I've never had so many positive reactions to a car--had complete random strangers approach me out of the blue to say that it's an incredibly beautiful car on 3 separate occasions (while driving around for just 3 hours...not a bad per hour average!). Heads were turning! And my friends reactions were even more positive. All my personal doubts instantly disappeared when I pulled back the cover on it in the delivery bay. For those of you not won over yet, I am convinced that in time many of you will realize that this wasn't such a terrible change--so do your best to reserve your judgements. I have been watching this grill online for so many months and now in person, that when I look at the older grills, they are now actually starting to seem a tad outdated to me (and believe me, I have always been a huge fan of the kidney's). Anyhow...that's my rant for now...

But I do live where a front plate is required unfortunately, and I asked them not to drill & mount it, so am risking it without one for a few days. But will put a tow hook mount on as soon as I've figured out the best option. Welcome any suggestions.

[schnellwagen]

Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete

Said it before and I'll say it again - we should all start petitions in each state to do away with front plates.

They're fine with motorcycles not having front plates, the only reason they want them on cars is for revenue generation + tickets. They say it can assist with finding stolen cars via license plate scanners, but the vast majority of the reason for front plates is revenue via tickets (either for not having the front plate or for traffic cameras).

You realize almost every country in the world mandates front license plates with much stricter penalties than states and provinces in North America that mandate them? They're important for criminal identification and driver accountability. Instead of trying to get rid of them, it's time NA ditched our current plate design and moved towards a European style plate.

[NorCalAthlete]

Originally Posted by schnellwagen

You realize almost every country in the world mandates front license plates with much stricter penalties than states and provinces in North America that mandate them? They're important for criminal identification and driver accountability. Instead of trying to get rid of them, it's time NA ditched our current plate design and moved towards a European style plate.

Aka revenue grab, ala red light cameras placed at intersections and then shortening the yellow lights to catch more people trying to make the light.

They're used for tolls in the cases where rear plates are dirty / obscured, but that's a minority of the cases.

They're used for stolen vehicle recovery...sometimes...except even in those cases most police departments don't have the license plate scanners (for a multitude of privacy / abuse reasons) and only help in recovery a small % of the time.

Overall, the benefit is minimal. And without getting too political I'm really tired of the US being compared to "other countries". We're not other countries - we have states bigger than other countries. We're damn near the size of Europe, and that's if you leave out Alaska. We have significantly different needs, wants, tastes, and cultures based around individuality vs collectivism, even if some of that is waning.

19 states don't require front license plates and get along just fine, relatively speaking, compared to other states that do (in terms of stolen vehicles, revenue from tickets, etc). Furthermore, I'm unaware of ANY state at the moment that requires front license plates on motorcycles. And in many other countries, motorcycles don't have front plates there either. Also in many other countries, a higher percentage of vehicles on the road are motorcycles. So while I haven't seen a hard data comparison my gut feeling is that whatever other countries you have in mind, probably have a higher % of motorcycles with no front plates, and also motorcycles are far more commonly stolen / abused (speeding) than cars, so your argument that it helps with personal accountability and criminal identification rings hollow to me.

Just my $0.02.

[schnellwagen]

Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete

Aka revenue grab, ala red light cameras placed at intersections and then shortening the yellow lights to catch more people trying to make the light.

They're used for tolls in the cases where rear plates are dirty / obscured, but that's a minority of the cases.

They're used for stolen vehicle recovery...sometimes...except even in those cases most police departments don't have the license plate scanners (for a multitude of privacy / abuse reasons) and only help in recovery a small % of the time.

Overall, the benefit is minimal. And without getting too political I'm really tired of the US being compared to "other countries". We're not other countries - we have states bigger than other countries. We're damn near the size of Europe, and that's if you leave out Alaska. We have significantly different needs, wants, tastes, and cultures based around individuality vs collectivism, even if some of that is waning.

19 states don't require front license plates and get along just fine, relatively speaking, compared to other states that do (in terms of stolen vehicles, revenue from tickets, etc). Furthermore, I'm unaware of ANY state at the moment that requires front license plates on motorcycles. And in many other countries, motorcycles don't have front plates there either. Also in many other countries, a higher percentage of vehicles on the road are motorcycles. So while I haven't seen a hard data comparison my gut feeling is that whatever other countries you have in mind, probably have a higher % of motorcycles with no front plates, and also motorcycles are far more commonly stolen / abused (speeding) than cars, so your argument that it helps with personal accountability and criminal identification rings hollow to me.

Just my $0.02.

Thank you for sharing. I would be open to a pilot project of eliminating the front plate requirement for a while to see how it works. I'm not a fan of revenue grabs at all, but I think the bigger issue to focus on in terms of drivers being fleeced is the whole speed limit fiasco here in CA. 65 is a literal joke for the 101 in Marin County and Silicon Valley. I've hit 92 in regular cruising and was only barely faster than the other cars on the highway. Politicians aren't doing anything to fix our driver training standards and raise our speed limits, and meanwhile the CHP is using the sign that says "Speed Limit 65" to print money at the expense of the working class and middle class.

[NorCalAthlete]

Originally Posted by schnellwagen

Thank you for sharing. I would be open to a pilot project of eliminating the front plate requirement for a while to see how it works. I'm not a fan of revenue grabs at all, but I think the bigger issue to focus on in terms of drivers being fleeced is the whole speed limit fiasco here in CA. 65 is a literal joke for the 101 in Marin County and Silicon Valley. I've hit 92 in regular cruising and was only barely faster than the other cars on the highway. Politicians aren't doing anything to fix our driver training standards and raise our speed limits, and meanwhile the CHP is using the sign that says "Speed Limit 65" to print money at the expense of the working class and middle class.

San Francisco is a perfect example of front plates just being used as an excuse for revenue generation - or rather, ticketing people for not having one is the revenue generation. I'd be willing to bet that if we ever got a hold of the data, they would show more revenue generated from ticketing people for not having it than revenue generated from tolls or vehicles recovered from theft.

I have literally watched SFPD set up in the middle of a random intersection, just 2 officers, 1 on the side and 1 in the middle of the street, and the 1 in the street just waves cars through till he spotted one without a plate and sent them over to his buddy. He did this with probably 5-6 cars in the span of 2 minutes I watched while I waited at the traffic light. Shooting fish in a barrel.

As you pointed out with speed limits, front plates are more an excuse to print money at the expense of the working and middle class, though at least there's a fair amount of printing money at the expense of the upper class as well with these since a lot of Mercedes / BMW / Lamborghini / Ferrari / etc luxury car owners don't like front plates.

I say do away with it and figure out a more legit, less open to arbitrary harassment way to balance the police budgets.

And while we're on that note I think we could save some money by getting rid of all the toll booths and toll booth workers and installing cameras that just snap your rear plate and bill you monthly. Works fine in other states and countries with or without front plates. Gotta imagine the toll booth workers + slowdown hit to traffic + emissions + etc adds up compared to maybe 10% miss rate on rear-plate-only cameras.

[schnellwagen]

Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete

San Francisco is a perfect example of front plates just being used as an excuse for revenue generation - or rather, ticketing people for not having one is the revenue generation. I'd be willing to bet that if we ever got a hold of the data, they would show more revenue generated from ticketing people for not having it than revenue generated from tolls or vehicles recovered from theft.

I have literally watched SFPD set up in the middle of a random intersection, just 2 officers, 1 on the side and 1 in the middle of the street, and the 1 in the street just waves cars through till he spotted one without a plate and sent them over to his buddy. He did this with probably 5-6 cars in the span of 2 minutes I watched while I waited at the traffic light. Shooting fish in a barrel.

As you pointed out with speed limits, front plates are more an excuse to print money at the expense of the working and middle class, though at least there's a fair amount of printing money at the expense of the upper class as well with these since a lot of Mercedes / BMW / Lamborghini / Ferrari / etc luxury car owners don't like front plates.

I say do away with it and figure out a more legit, less open to arbitrary harassment way to balance the police budgets.

And while we're on that note I think we could save some money by getting rid of all the toll booths and toll booth workers and installing cameras that just snap your rear plate and bill you monthly. Works fine in other states and countries with or without front plates. Gotta imagine the toll booth workers + slowdown hit to traffic + emissions + etc adds up compared to maybe 10% miss rate on rear-plate-only cameras.

I like your idea on removing tollbooths. the Golden Gate Bridge traffic heading into SF would be a lot smoother if we could just drive and have our plates scanned by a camera.

[campy330i]

Originally Posted by ProteinFart

Don’t feel bad for those that require front plate, it’ll help cover that ugly front end

Yeah, on that nose I'd rather have a front plate ... or three.

[Biggie335]

Unfortunately here in Ontario, Canada we are stuck with front plates - the grill is definitely a 50-50 but a plate on the front would make it look even worse imo - especially our blue and white plates. For the life of me, I dont know why we dont get rid of front plates - cash grab basically.