[Arthur55]

Ah that's interesting to know thanks.........

Think I'll just drive it, try the various modes and see what works best for me.

[The_Tok'Ra]

Originally Posted by C225

My 2020 320i is exactly the same as you describe, it makes it hard to come to a smooth stop, matching teh breaking to the engine breaking of the gear downshifts.

I don't think there is anything wrong however as after driving many different BMW's over the years as hire cars it's just how they are, maybe the newer ones with MHT smooth it out a bit but i've not driven one. It's certainly a bit jerkier than the Mercedes CLA i had a few years back but no where bad enough to actually put me off the car.

Yes, I would agree. My M340i is my first auto gearbox and having had the car for over 6 months now, I do find that I have adjusted my braking so as I feel the car change down the box I lighten the pressure on the brake pedal a bit, but even now, I often find that the car wants to keep on trucking on as I try to gracefully slow to a stop at a set of traffic lights, and then more pressure has to be reapplied again to actually get the car to stop.

Bottom line, if a manual box had been available, I would have gone for a manual box.

[bmnut]

Originally Posted by The_Tok'Ra

Yes, I would agree. My M340i is my first auto gearbox and having had the car for over 6 months now, I do find that I have adjusted my braking so as I feel the car change down the box I lighten the pressure on the brake pedal a bit, but even now, I often find that the car wants to keep on trucking on as I try to gracefully slow to a stop at a set of traffic lights, and then more pressure has to be reapplied again to actually get the car to stop.

Bottom line, if a maunal box had been available, I would have gone for a manual box.

So would I have done!

[Arthur55]

Originally Posted by The_Tok'Ra

Yes, I would agree. My M340i is my first auto gearbox and having had the car for over 6 months now, I do find that I have adjusted my braking so as I feel the car change down the box I lighten the pressure on the brake pedal a bit, but even now, I often find that the car wants to keep on trucking on as I try to gracefully slow to a stop at a set of traffic lights, and then more pressure has to be reapplied again to actually get the car to stop.

Bottom line, if a maunal box had been available, I would have gone for a manual box.

Agree totally.......I always used to finally ease off break pressure with a manual when coming to a stop, smooths things out for the passengers......a driving instructor I had on advanced courses used to pour out a cuppa from his flask, and wouldn't be happy if you spilled his tea......

Good job the car didn't have an auto box!

Still like the auto, but there's still 20% when I'd like to go back to a manual. But finding BMWs with manuals can be hard......

[The_Tok'Ra]

Originally Posted by Arthur55

Agree totally.......I always used to finally ease off break pressure with a manual when coming to a stop, smooths things out for the passengers......a driving instructor I had on advanced courses used to pour out a cuppa from his flask, and wouldn't be happy if you spilled his tea......

Good job the car didn't have an auto box!

Still like the auto, but there's still 20% when I'd like to go back to a manual. But finding BMWs with manuals can be hard......

Yes, I'm not even sure you can get a manual box all all in a 3 series anymore, but when you could get one in a G20/ G21 it was only available with the base model, or certainly not an M Sport spec car.

I watched and read SO many reviews of the G20 series cars with the ZF gearbox and they all raved about it so much.

Don't get me wrong though, the box is very, very clever, and although I never drove one of those early 3 speed autoboxes you used to get in cars from many years ago, it was clear they were bloody awful even as a passenger, but these new 8 or even 9 speed ZF boxes are a wonder....

But, do the majority of us really need 8 gears? My last two cars were both 6 speed manuals and I found that to be just right.

No doubt the 8 gears help with efficency, but then, I bet that ZF 8 speed auto box weighs a fair bit more than the 6 manual box, and then it's just extra weight you're lugging around all the time.

And.. I miss my clutch peddal.. You don't realise how usefull it is to be able to feather the clutch how you want to and when you want to, until you can't! LOL!!

[alFR]

Originally Posted by The_Tok'Ra

I often find that the car wants to keep on trucking on as I try to gracefully slow to a stop at a set of traffic lights, and then more pressure has to be reapplied again to actually get the car to stop.

I don’t know why it’s different, but I’ve never noticed my car trying to apply drive when I’m off the throttle and on the brake. My old Audi (also an 8-speed ZF box) didn’t do that either. Unless I’m misinterpreting what you mean?

Originally Posted by Arthur55

I always used to finally ease off break pressure with a manual when coming to a stop,

You should still be able to do that with the auto as well. It shouldn’t creep forward unless you completely come off the brake at the end?

[bmnut]

Originally Posted by alFR

I don’t know why it’s different, but I’ve never noticed my car trying to apply drive when I’m off the throttle and on the brake. My old Audi (also an 8-speed ZF box) didn’t do that either. Unless I’m misinterpreting what you mean?



You should still be able to do that with the auto as well. It shouldn’t creep forward unless you completely come off the brake at the end?

I suspect it's the 'creeping' action he's on about since the drive train is still engaged unless the box is put into neutral?

[The_Tok'Ra]

Originally Posted by alFR

I don’t know why it’s different, but I’ve never noticed my car trying to apply drive when I’m off the throttle and on the brake. My old Audi (also an 8-speed ZF box) didn’t do that either. Unless I’m misinterpreting what you mean?



You should still be able to do that with the auto as well. It shouldn’t creep forward unless you completely come off the brake at the end?

No, you are not misinterpreting what I mean. The car does just want to keep on moving forward. It just feels like it wants to keep the clutch out and the torque of the engine keeps the car moving. I hae to apply more brakes to force the car to stop.

Sometimes the opposite applies too, I want to simply coast up to a set of lights like I would do in a manual car, with the clutch fully in (i.e. foot the the floor), and just gently feather the brake pedal to a gracefull stop.

But nope, the car drops down into 2nd or 1st and with the autobox still engaged the engine slows the car to a crawl and I need to press the go pedal again to actually get to the triffic lights.

[The_Tok'Ra]

Originally Posted by alFR

I don’t know why it’s different, but I’ve never noticed my car trying to apply drive when I’m off the throttle and on the brake. My old Audi (also an 8-speed ZF box) didn’t do that either. Unless I’m misinterpreting what you mean?



You should still be able to do that with the auto as well. It shouldn’t creep forward unless you completely come off the brake at the end?

Originally Posted by bmnut

I suspect it's the 'creeping' action he's on about since the drive train is still engaged unless the box is put into neutral?

Yup! It just wants to keep creeping forward and refuses to stop unless a reasonable amount of brake pressure is applied, then it will go... Oh.... You want to actually stop... Right, OK then, I'll disengage the clutch then.

The thing is, I wanted the clutch to disengage 5 seconds before it did.

And while You can change into neutral while the car is moving, It starts binging and bonging at you like you've threatened to drive off a cliff and it doesn't want to die. LOL

[bmnut]

Originally Posted by The_Tok'Ra

Yes, I'm not even sure you can get a manual box all all in a 3 series anymore, but when you could get one in a G20/ G21 it was only available with the base model, or certainly not an M Sport spec car.

I watched and read SO many reviews of the G20 series cars with the ZF gearbox and they all raved about it so much.

Don't get me wrong though, the box is very, very clever, and although I never drove one of those early 3 speed autoboxes you used to get in cars from many years ago, it was clear they were bloody awful even as a passenger, but these new 8 or even 9 speed ZF boxes are a wonder....

But, do the majority of us really need 8 gears? My last two cars were both 6 speed manuals and I found that to be just right.

No doubt the 8 gears help with efficency, but then, I bet that ZF 8 speed auto box weighs a fair bit more than the 6 manual box, and then it's just extra weight you're lugging around all the time.

And.. I miss my clutch peddal.. You don't realise how usefull it is to be able to feather the clutch how you want to and when you want to, until you can't! LOL!!

All my driving skills training from standard through intermediate to advanced was all on manual gearbox cars so I get where you're coming from and I regularly lament the interaction I used to have with a car and the opportunity you used to have all the time to constantly 'hone' your personal level of skill.
Times change however not least driven forward by the relentless forward march of hybrid and full electric vehicles, not to mention the benefits on emissions and fuel consumption across the board regardless of by what propulsion system the car employs.
The 8 speed auto is a masterpiece in engineering design and its capability when it comes to achieving fuel consumption figures quite remarkable in which regard the 8 ratios v the 6 ratios of a manual no doubt play a large part especially when the box is left in full auto mode.
At least I have very fond memories of my E92 335i with its 6 speed manual and especially its several hundreds of miles trip from home to Austria and back...off the clock on a couple of de-restricted autobahns in Germany....wife was terrified!

[The_Tok'Ra]

Originally Posted by bmnut

All my driving skills training from standard through intermediate to advanced was all on manual gearbox cars so I get where you're coming from and I regularly lament the interaction I used to have with a car and the opportunity you used to have all the time to constantly 'hone' your personal level of skill.
Times change however not least driven forward by the relentless forward march of hybrid and full electric vehicles, not to mention the benefits on emissions and fuel consumption across the board regardless of by what propulsion system the car employs.
The 8 speed auto is a masterpiece in engineering design and its capability when it comes to achieving fuel consumption figures quite remarkable in which regard the 8 ratios v the 6 ratios of a manual no doubt play a large part especially when the box is left in full auto mode.
At least I have very fond memories of my E92 335i with its 6 speed manual and especially its several hundreds of miles trip from home to Austria and back...off the clock on a couple of de-restricted autobahns in Germany....wife was terrified!

Exactly that! I've had many a passenger of mine in the past make comments about how smooth and controlled my driving was, and I wasn't hanging about either, but these days I find myself feeling like I'm fighting with the car (a bit) to get it to stop even remotely smoothly.

LOL! I've never been on an Autobahn, but I bet is is rather thrilling! At least in Gernany drivers have good lane disipline and actually look in their mirrors.

[bmnut]

Originally Posted by The_Tok'Ra

Exactly that! I've had many a passenger of mine in the past make comments about how smooth and controlled my driving was, and I wasn't hanging about either, but these days I find myself feeling like I'm fighting with the car (a bit) to get it to stop even remotely smoothly.

LOL! I've never been on an Autobahn, but I bet is is rather thrilling! At least in Gernany drivers have good lane disipline and actually look in their mirrors.

That car didn't have the built-in sat nav so I was using a good old 'Tom Tom' and the speed readout on the nav was saying 154 - 155 and the car was just hitting the limiter so the GPS speed readout on the nav was spot on. The car's speedo on the other hand was pointing to where 162 would have been had it not stopped being graduated at 160...think that's what frightened the wife!.....You don't want to know the words she used!

[Arthur55]

Originally Posted by The_Tok'Ra

Exactly that! I've had many a passenger of mine in the past make comments about how smooth and controlled my driving was, and I wasn't hanging about either, but these days I find myself feeling like I'm fighting with the car (a bit) to get it to stop even remotely smoothly.

LOL! I've never been on an Autobahn, but I bet is is rather thrilling! At least in Gernany drivers have good lane disipline and actually look in their mirrors.

Mines got M Sport brakes too.......so as you say gauging the brake pressure is the key.

Economy though on my 320i on a run is impressive.....actually better than my X1 with its 3 pot 1.5 engine.....

Just have to continue enjoying the car, and after a good wash today in the bright sunshine it looks so impressive......

[The_Tok'Ra]

Originally Posted by Arthur55

Mines got M Sport brakes too.......so as you say gauging the brake pressure is the key.

Economy though on my 320i on a run is impressive.....actually better than my X1 with its 3 pot 1.5 engine.....

Just have to continue enjoying the car, and after a good wash today in the bright sunshine it looks so impressive......

I'm not surprised at that at all. The 3 pot would have been working pretty hard in an X1, and that's when the fuel economy goes out the window. The 2.0i on the other hand in the 3 Series.. that's working under less stress, and so it can be more fuel efficent.

I had a 1.6 TDI Octavia breifly, before I had the 2.0 TDI Octavaia, and the fuel economy was practically identical, with the 2.0 TDI very slightly better.

And the 2.0 TDI had 45 more BHP, a very noticeable, and enjoyable difference.

[Arthur55]

Originally Posted by The_Tok'Ra

I'm not surprised at that at all. The 3 pot would have been working pretty hard in an X1, and that's when the fuel economy goes out the window. The 2.0i on the other hand in the 3 Series.. that's working under less stress, and so it can be more fuel efficent.

I had a 1.6 TDI Octavia breifly, before I had the 2.0 TDI Octavaia, and the fuel economy was practically identical, with the 2.0 TDI very slightly better.

And the 2.0 TDI had 45 more BHP, a very noticeable, and enjoyable difference.

The X1 was fine around the town and A roads, but motorways, as soon as you crept passed 70 the MPG dropped off.

The 320i just cruises along.......autobox doing its thing........feel like you could just gobble up the miles.

[The_Tok'Ra]

Originally Posted by Arthur55

The X1 was fine around the town and A roads, but motorways, as soon as you crept passed 70 the MPG dropped off.

The 320i just cruises along.......autobox doing its thing........feel like you could just gobble up the miles.

The 1.6 TDI Ocatavia I had, breifly. I ended up rejecting that car, for a bit of damage to the bodywork the (main) dealer had tried to hide, and then did the worst respray job I've ever seen in my life.

I could have done a better job my self, blindfolded, with my hands tied behind my back! It was THAT bad!

Anyway, one of the solutions the dealer offered was to swap the used Ocatvia for a brand new Fabia Estate with the 1.2 ltr petrol engine, So I thought OK, I'm willing to come and go a bit, I'll take it for a test drive.

It was great around town, very nippy!, but thankfully their test route had a bit of motorway on it, and when I got it on the motorway... with a fairly strong head wind, I was foot to the floor to try to keep it at 65 MPH and the fuel economy was in single digits!

I spent the rest of the test drive ranting at the salesman that due to the gearbox gearing, this car was not fit for purpose! LOL!!

I ended up getting a full refund in the end, and bought the 2.0 TDI from another main dealer.

[MisterG]

Originally Posted by The_Tok'Ra

Yup! It just wants to keep creeping forward and refuses to stop unless a reasonable amount of brake pressure is applied, then it will go... Oh.... You want to actually stop... Right, OK then, I'll disengage the clutch then.

The thing is, I wanted the clutch to disengage 5 seconds before it did.

And while You can change into neutral while the car is moving, It starts binging and bonging at you like you've threatened to drive off a cliff and it doesn't want to die. LOL

I agree that MHT has complicated things somewhat with creeping.. stopping the engine under 10mph etc.

For me it’s a pain when i park on my drive I need to creep forward to get the parking sensors in the red up against the garage door and the engine cuts out.
And there’s the slow moving stop - start traffic.. more noticeable where you maybe slowing based on engine braking and then the engine is disengaged and you coast so have to apply the brakes.
It’s just that final level of anticipation that no autobox can do, combined with driving to the “quirks” of a specific vehicle.. MHT etc.

Eg Driving the last gen 330e was more difficult because the creeping was engineered in via the electric motor, it was relatively strong and required quite a lot of brake pressure to overcome compared to a normal auto which made it less smooth in stop-go.
And my old Volvo t5 slush box.. wouldn’t lockup until over 50mph which made 50mph speed limits an excercise in trying to stay just over to avoid the rubber-band effect….

[Arthur55]

Think after all this discussion over auto systems with or without MHT they are very clever.......but perhaps aren't yet able to match the smoothness of a well trained human.

But it seems another of manufacturers are moving to just offering auto so for me its a case of just learning its characteristics..............and when I retire buy a classic manual car LOL.

[paulockenden]

The 330e doesn’t suffer this problem, so perhaps when the newer mild hybrids arrive that have the motor in the gearbox (like the plug-in hybrids), they will avoid it.

[MisterG]

Originally Posted by paulockenden

The 330e doesn’t suffer this problem, so perhaps when the newer mild hybrids arrive that have the motor in the gearbox (like the plug-in hybrids), they will avoid it.

But then the issue of rotational mass comes into play… I’d assume that the motor in the gearbox weighs more than a torque converter…
Can’t speak for the g20, but the f30 330e had noticeably “softer” gearbox/gearshift calibration compared to the other models.

[Arthur55]

By chance I found a instrument cluster setting which in confort mode and normal D drive shows power % not rpm. Also shows the car battery charging. The issues or should I say characteristics I have talked about aren't when the battery is charging......

As said before, I'll just get it check when it goes in for service.