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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions Comparing the G20 M340i to the B9 S4

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      06-09-2019, 12:31 AM   #1
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Comparing the G20 M340i to the B9 S4

Seems like a lot of people are comparing the M340 to the B9 S4. I assume that this is because they are in the same price range and have similar specs. People also compare the A4 to the 330i.

Unfortunately, Audi vs BMW is not a great comparison right now.

For instance, the S4 is not a daily driver... it’s either a fuel sipping miser or a fire breathing race car... nothing in between.

The A4s DCT is brilliant, and it’s probably one of the best midsized daily drivers, but more expensive than you think. When it comes to the entry level cars, Audi is worse than BMW when it comes to nickel and diming you to death with options that shouldnÂ’t really be options.

Audi isn’t all bad, the S4 and A4 are about 100 pounds lighter and feel a little more nimble with the sport diff option than a similarly equipped m340 or 330 msport.

That said, wouldn’t advise anyone to buy the B9 S4 and I’d be careful about the A4 because the options add up fast.

I unfortunately needed a car right when the B9 S4 came out and the F series bimmers were done.

Buying the S4 was a mistake, but in my defense, it has a nice interior and looks really aggressive lowered with a honey comb grill. https://tagmotorsports.com/gallery/a...-2-wheels.html

Moreover, it seems ok driving wise during a test drive, but it’s a different animal once it’s warmed up.

For starters, you don’t realize this during a test drive, but all of the settings for drive mode only change chassis parameters. The car really only has two drive modes which are “drive” and “sport”. If that weren’t bad enough, the drive mode controls both the engine map and transmission shift points.

Dynamic only makes the suspension stiffer, sport diff more aggressive, exhaust louder, and changes steering feedback.

The “drive” or “D” mode is ok until the car is good and warm: Once the B9 S4 is warm and you scooting around town it turns into a dangerously laggy POS in drive mode. You step on it and it does nothing. Unless you are content to feel like you are always on a Sunday drive this mode is unusable.

In sport mode, the B9 S4 is exciting for a few minutes, but it quickly becomes exhausting to drive, and it burns so much fuel. I get maybe 18 mpg in sport mode taking it easy in mixed driving in stock trim.

With my current modifications utilizing a few gallons of E85 as a octane boost, I routinely get about 12 mpg. I can empty a whole tank on the track in 25 minutes.

Unless you are content to feel like your always on a race track sport mode is not usable.

Bottom line, I wouldn’t buy the new S4.

I drove a 335i N54 car that belongs to a friend and 340i rented from Turo for a few days. I like the fact BMWs have numerous drive mode controls and that you can change the engine MAP without changing the transmission and vice versa.

I also test drove an M340: I agree with some of the ppl here that it’s chassis is not as nimble as the S4. It does feel big and heavy to me.

IMO, if you have an F30 particularly one with CarPlay keep it.

If you have a e90 335 it might be getting costly to maintain at this point, but if it’s not costing you an arm and a leg, I’d keep that too.

If you have to buy a car now. I’d say don’t get the S4. The M340 is a-little too heavy IMO, but it’s better than the S4 as a daily.

If your looking at a 330, I’d say the A4 is a real contender with its DCT. The DCT in Audi’s is perfection. If they had put it in the S4, I bet I wouldn’t be complaining about my car so much. That said, if you’re look at the A4 you better watch that price tag. It’s best options may put you in the same price range as a base S4.

In summary, the B9 S4 is undrivable. The A4 is pretty awesome, but will probably cost you more than a 330 with the options that I’d recommend.

The M340 and 330 are both too heavy, but it’s better than buying a car that’s undrivable and possibly better than paying an arm and a leg to Audi to option out the A4 (it’s not out of the question for a properly optioned A4 to cost over 55k).

I hope this gives some people a bit of perspective on the Offerings from Audi.
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      06-09-2019, 01:59 AM   #2
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I've seen multiple complaints about the laggy throttle response in the Audi cars. To me that's unacceptable for a car in this segment, or any new car, in any segment.
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      06-09-2019, 10:43 AM   #3
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Recent Audi's have been less hits and more misses. The A5 sportback is great, but the S models are being downgraded from their previous versions (S4/5 gets no manual/supercharger, S6/7 no V8) and the new awful infotainment system replaces what was the excellent MMI system. Not to mention the latest refresh just doesn't look good. I know a lot of people say the B9 (pre refresh) may be boring, but I love the understated but angular and sharp look, but the 2020 models add fake grills and non-matching design elements to the front fascia, the rear seems more luxury while the front screams sport, MMI is gone, the side has become less sharp and more slab sided looking with the loss of the character line at the doors, and the exhaust, while they look real, are likely fake based on the photos of the 2020 S6 exhaust, and their interior materials have been going downhill and are a little too VW esque, just sit in the top of the line Q8 vs the X5 or GLE and you'll understand.

Audi really only has the A/S/RS3 and A5 Sportback that I would consider.



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      06-09-2019, 10:44 AM   #4
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B9S4Sedan will you be trading in your S4 for something else? M340i, C43, etc? seems like you really can't stand it.
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      06-09-2019, 10:50 AM   #5
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I have a B9 SQ5 which is practically the same thing as the S4. I had the B8.5 SQ5 as well. I agree the D mode driving experience is not good. S mode is better so I drive mostly in S and say to hell with the mpg. The turbo lag is overall pretty bad though. Torque is really an on/off switch and a difficult power curve to enjoy. It's so on/off that you quickly (after lag) blast into this huge torque wave that just unsettles the whole experience but then just as quickly peaks or dies or something. Like they tuned it to hold it back and sap any excitement of linear increasing power.

HOWEVER, the transmission/power tune is my only complaint. Ok the steering sucks but it's an Audi so you know that going in. Transmission in manual mode works very well and the rest of the car is phenomenal. With sport pack big brakes, 21" wheels the looks can kill. Rear trim that people see as fake exhaust is NBD and you don't have to clean exhaust tips. Exhaust sound is lovely with some good barks thrown in. Interior is f'ing incredible in Napa quilted leather with carbon trim. And the air suspension (not on S4), I am confident is hands down the best suspension you can spec on this range SUV. Always uber comfortable, handles well with a tight front end and corners flatter than I would expect. Rear sport diff is able to put power through both rear wheels noticeably well.

So I've learned to like this flawed Audi and leased it over X3 M40i because I got it for $100/mo less at the time but I won't be sad to see it go when lease is up August 2020. X3M is probably next up for me and in the mean time we ordered an M340i for the wife. Didn't even bother to check out the S4.
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      06-09-2019, 12:33 PM   #6
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I have an S5 Sportback and while I haven't driven the M340i, my previous car was an F30 340i.
Pros for S5: Great suspension, pretty good handling with the sport differential, good looks, nice interior
Cons: Terribly laggy throttle in Drive mode, and even in Sport mode the ZF-8 is just not as well programmed as the BMW
Bottom line is I have not been able to get comfortable with my S5 after 10 months or so. Looking to trade it in and get into a G20, most likely a 330i.
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      06-09-2019, 12:37 PM   #7
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I remember the days when Audis were classic - elegant simplicity and a joy to look at. Now, the Germans have resorted to who can come up with the biggest and ugliest grille possible. And the 2020 B9 refresh is hideous IMHO. It definitely fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down. Losing the MMI knob is probably a huge mistake and the MMI display now is an extra-large iPad. I had driven a B9 S4 last year and immediately got the transmission complaint. VW programs the DCT the same way for some reason. D = way too little, S = too much. I leave mine in manual all the time on the GTI (definitely should have gotten a stick).

Test drove a M340i xdrive yesterday and think I'm going to pull the trigger on one (it'll be my first BMW since an E46 way back when). I'd kill to get that car back now BTW. The M340i is damned fast, that's for sure. I will get AWD and definitely swap out for a set of the Michelin non RFT PS4s. The RFTs were loud and not really impressive I thought just on a brief test drive. About the only area the Audi wins now is the dashboard - I am not a fan of the BMW Live Cockpit. Although the rest of the controls were great. This will be a daily so the comfort/handling/exhaust compromise seemed pretty good for me. The steering is typical modern day EPS and the weight was fine. CarPlay works much better w/ a touchscreen so glad to see that.
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      06-09-2019, 01:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by volsfan0911 View Post
I will get AWD and definitely swap out for a set of the Michelin non RFT PS4s. The RFTs were loud and not really impressive I thought just on a brief test drive.
You can get PS4S from the factory if you select spare tire (with loss of trunk space )and 792M with non-RFT. HP cooling pack will do the same.
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      06-10-2019, 12:49 AM   #9
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BMW G20 all the way
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      06-10-2019, 01:55 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
B9S4Sedan will you be trading in your S4 for something else? M340i, C43, etc? seems like you really can't stand it.
Waiting for the G80 M3 to make a decision. I can’t stand how laggy Audi programs the ZF8, and I’m not a fan of BMW’s DCT. I know I’ll catch some heat for criticizing BMW’s DCT, but after you’ve driven an Audi or Porsche DCT you’ll always be disappointed with BMWs DCT.

If I were Ok with M DCTs I probably would have gotten the F80 M3 out of the gate.

Last edited by B9S4Sedan; 06-10-2019 at 02:02 AM..
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      06-10-2019, 02:05 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
I've seen multiple complaints about the laggy throttle response in the Audi cars. To me that's unacceptable for a car in this segment, or any new car, in any segment.
It mostly affects the ZF 8 cars. Audi just can’t program the ZF 8 right. The DCT cars from Audi are excellent. Audi DCTs are second only to Porsche’s PDK.
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      06-10-2019, 02:14 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
Recent Audi's have been less hits and more misses. The A5 sportback is great, but the S models are being downgraded from their previous versions (S4/5 gets no manual/supercharger, S6/7 no V8) and the new awful infotainment system replaces what was the excellent MMI system. Not to mention the latest refresh just doesn't look good. I know a lot of people say the B9 (pre refresh) may be boring, but I love the understated but angular and sharp look, but the 2020 models add fake grills and non-matching design elements to the front fascia, the rear seems more luxury while the front screams sport, MMI is gone, the side has become less sharp and more slab sided looking with the loss of the character line at the doors, and the exhaust, while they look real, are likely fake based on the photos of the 2020 S6 exhaust, and their interior materials have been going downhill and are a little too VW esque, just sit in the top of the line Q8 vs the X5 or GLE and you'll understand.

Audi really only has the A/S/RS3 and A5 Sportback that I would consider.



I test drove an RS5 Sportback. It’s not laggy like the S4 or S5/S5 SB. The engine map in D mode is more aggressive. The shift points are also more aggressive. Downside is that people are saying the fuel economy is rubbish.... you might say why do you care in this segment, but if you have to stop at a gas station every 150 miles that gets old really quick.
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      06-10-2019, 03:20 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B9S4Sedan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
Recent Audi's have been less hits and more misses. The A5 sportback is great, but the S models are being downgraded from their previous versions (S4/5 gets no manual/supercharger, S6/7 no V8) and the new awful infotainment system replaces what was the excellent MMI system. Not to mention the latest refresh just doesn't look good. I know a lot of people say the B9 (pre refresh) may be boring, but I love the understated but angular and sharp look, but the 2020 models add fake grills and non-matching design elements to the front fascia, the rear seems more luxury while the front screams sport, MMI is gone, the side has become less sharp and more slab sided looking with the loss of the character line at the doors, and the exhaust, while they look real, are likely fake based on the photos of the 2020 S6 exhaust, and their interior materials have been going downhill and are a little too VW esque, just sit in the top of the line Q8 vs the X5 or GLE and you'll understand.

Audi really only has the A/S/RS3 and A5 Sportback that I would consider.

[IMG]https://preview2.netcarshow.com/Audi-S4-2017-hd.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://st.motortrend.com/uploads/si...7946930320.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://i.redd.it/e03j2km220031.jpg[/IMG]
I test drove an RS5 Sportback. It's not laggy like the S4 or S5/S5 SB. The engine map in D mode is more aggressive. The shift points are also more aggressive. Downside is that people are saying the fuel economy is rubbish.... you might say why do you care in this segment, but if you have to stop at a gas station every 150 miles that gets old really quick.
You have to pay to play. Forced induction, or not, a quicker car driven in a spirited fashion won't be as good on fuel economy. That is, unless it's an automatic with a transmission programmed for fuel efficiency (essentially killing the driving experience like Audi seems to have done in normal drive mode) I don't see the point in that. If fuel efficiency is the a major concern, there are much better options. Nothing wrong with that, in fact, being mindful of fuel efficiency is responsible. It's simply not compatible with exciting cars (with ICE) though.
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      06-10-2019, 11:16 AM   #14
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Wow, I cross shopped the S4 and really loved the car, especially the interior with the virtual cockpit, massage seats, carbon fiber trim, diamond stitching, etc. The exterior looks a little plain to me but I thought it drove really well on my test drive. Good thing my wife didn't like the car because I may have picked the S4 and at the time I looked at the M340, there weren't many deals to be had because they were just arriving at the dealers. Good thing a month later dealers started aggressively discounting the M340 so we were able to get a good deal.
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      06-10-2019, 12:20 PM   #15
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That exhaust setup on the Audi looks cheap AF.
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      06-10-2019, 12:26 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patgilm View Post
Wow, I cross shopped the S4 and really loved the car, especially the interior with the virtual cockpit, massage seats, carbon fiber trim, diamond stitching, etc. The exterior looks a little plain to me but I thought it drove really well on my test drive. Good thing my wife didn't like the car because I may have picked the S4 and at the time I looked at the M340, there weren't many deals to be had because they were just arriving at the dealers. Good thing a month later dealers started aggressively discounting the M340 so we were able to get a good deal.
Yeah dude you dodged a bullet. They suckered me with the interior too, but I didn’t have the M340 as an option. You should thank your wife for the Veto. I’m not saying the m340 is everything I want in a car, but the S4 probably wouldn’t have been my first choice if a second one existed. The C43 wasn’t a option either mostly because I think I’m too young to drive an MB.
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      06-10-2019, 12:36 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
You have to pay to play. Forced induction, or not, a quicker car driven in a spirited fashion won't be as good on fuel economy. That is, unless it's an automatic with a transmission programmed for fuel efficiency (essentially killing the driving experience like Audi seems to have done in normal drive mode) I don't see the point in that. If fuel efficiency is the a major concern, there are much better options. Nothing wrong with that, in fact, being mindful of fuel efficiency is responsible. It's simply not compatible with exciting cars (with ICE) though.
I get that... I’d probably be satisfied with a 500 hp car that got 16 mpg on average. Unfortunately, Audi can’t do that... my car makes 380 at the wheels probably around 445 at the crank, but it gets the same average mpg as a twin turbo V8 about 12 mpg while driving spiritedly. If I do what I consider hypermiling, I can see low 20s. On the track it’s closer to 4 mpg. You might think that’s because I’m modded, but my friends RS5 SB gets similar mpg.

Even in stock trim obtaining the EPA rated mpg required the AC to be off all ACC off and doing what I consider hypermiling. 61 mph continuous with no friction braking.

Bottom line, no more permanent AWD for me.
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      06-10-2019, 12:38 PM   #18
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That exhaust setup on the Audi looks cheap AF.
To be fair a lot of manufacturers are doing that now. It’s to keep the bumper and tips clean. Personally I think a clean bumper is the sign of a dirty carbonated engine.

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      06-10-2019, 01:07 PM   #19
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That’s disgusting
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      06-10-2019, 03:27 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B9S4Sedan View Post
Yeah dude you dodged a bullet. They suckered me with the interior too, but I didn’t have the M340 as an option. You should thank your wife for the Veto. I’m not saying the m340 is everything I want in a car, but the S4 probably wouldn’t have been my first choice if a second one existed. The C43 wasn’t a option either mostly because I think I’m too young to drive an MB.
After reading your review I agree, very happy with my decision. We test drove the C43, S4 and M340. Each one had pluses and minuses but the M340 was the best overall, it was just the price we had issue with until they started discounting and once that was done it was a no brainer.

The C43 was nice but the ride was stiffer than we liked. A good friend of mine is a GSM at a Mercedes dealer and could have given us a nice deal but the ride quality really held me back. To me I thought this car looked the best out of the three.

The M340 had the best overall package though from the ride quality to the tech. The S4 virtual cockpit to me is way better than the BMW, the BMW virtual cockpit or whatever they call it looks a little cheesy and doesn't seem like it will age well but that is just me. It still baffles me that for a $66k MSRP I don't get a power tilt steering wheel. Each one of these cars had one little annoying thing that wasn't available and this was the one on the BMW that annoys me.
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      06-10-2019, 07:51 PM   #21
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I came to my 2016 340i xDrive from a B8.5 S4.

I am now looking at the 2020 M340i xDrive but will not look at the B9 S4.

Audi really dropped the ball from the B8 to the B9.

The B8 S4 really showed what Audi could do...it was better than an F30 335i. DSG, sport diff, supercharger. Plus a great balance of understated aggressive design. The B9 S4 is blah. Can hardly tell it from an A4.

Audi has been trying to fix it...slight re-fresh in 2019 and now a major refresh for 2020. But now the strong and elegant B8 S4 design has morphed into the Frankenstein B9 S4.

It's like they knew they had to do major surgery so they pulled design elements and pieces from the RS line ( honeycomb grill) and touch screens and "matrix " LEDs from the new A6 and A7 and slapped them on the B9 S4.

That is why it's a Frankstein ...it's pulled body parts from other models....and not in a natural or organic way. You can see that it's just all stitched together...not an organic design. Big miss.
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      06-10-2019, 08:20 PM   #22
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That is why it's a Frankstein ...it's pulled body parts from other models....and not in a natural or organic way. You can see that it's just all stitched together...not an organic design. Big miss.
Here on Bimmerpost we call that the LCI 7 Series
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