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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) General G20 Sedan / G22 Coupe / G26 Gran Coupe Discussions G20 3 Series vs Tesla Model 3

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      08-16-2019, 12:46 AM   #529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ras550 View Post

I also came from a E90 335 (which was vastly superior to F30 in terms of ride handling balance - I've had a few multi-day F30 loaners). Couldn't be happier with my new car though).
So which car did you buy?
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      08-16-2019, 02:07 AM   #530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZCD1 View Post
You're absolutely correct - which is the better interface is a matter of personal preference.

The NAV maps in the Model 3 are tough to compete with, though, given the Google Maps imagery and the display size...

Knobs, buttons, hand gestures, touch screen, heads up display, voice commands, apple car play (android auto eventually?). I’m counting 6 maybe 7 ways to interface with the vehicle. In that regard, I don’t call that subjective... it’s objectively more advanced and feature-laden. The iDrive system in the G20 is the same one in the newest flagship 7-Series and the 8-Series. The Model 3 interior cabin tech is a cost cutting effort compared to the Model S/X.

And maybe save any performance argument when referencing the Model 3P for the folks on the F80/G80 forums... because the Model 3P is meant to compete with them. I stand by my general assertion that a Tesla, regardless of model, does not match the standards expected of BMW/Mercedes/Audi at the limit because of battery heat issues. It’s just a problem with the current implementation of the technology. I’m sure the Roadster 2.0 will sort that out, but many purists will insist it be able to perform back-to-back Nürburgring hot laps to earn its pedigree.

Last edited by Giggler; 08-16-2019 at 03:45 PM..
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      08-16-2019, 03:38 AM   #531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danf72 View Post
The problem with test drives is that you generally only drive the car for about 10 minutes and even that is on the freeway or side streets. It's tough to get a really good feel of the car.

I had a 335i e90 for 10 years. I regrettably traded it in for a Tesla Model S. The Tesla is a great car, very fast, and amazing tech. But I miss the driving feel of the e90. I do think that people, me included, are won over by the instant electric acceleration. But once you get used to that, you start noticing the rest of the car. The Model S at least feels very heavy and numb. I test drove the Model 3 Performance and non-Performance. It feels much lighter and more nimble than the S. But somehow, it doesn't feel connected. And the interior, for me, is lacking. But this is after a 10 minute test drive.

If I had to choose now, I would buy the M340i. Or better yet, the M2. But it just depends what you do with the car. For commuting, the Tesla is hands down better.
When I worked for Tesla during the early years of the Model S, I was definitely impressed with the acceleration and fact they even brought an EV sedan to the market. A massive achievement in of itself.

But fun to drive? The Model S is far from that. It's a heavy numb boat, much like the F10 5er of its day.
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      08-16-2019, 04:52 AM   #532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
When I worked for Tesla during the early years of the Model S, I was definitely impressed with the acceleration and fact they even brought an EV sedan to the market. A massive achievement in of itself.

But fun to drive? The Model S is far from that. It's a heavy numb boat, much like the F10 5er of its day.
Tesla originated from a science or tech perspective. BMW is a car (traditionally engine) manufacturer and now starts to add tech to the car, which also doesn't always function as it should.

Both companies are developing toward the future .
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      08-16-2019, 11:09 AM   #533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle Creek View Post
So which car did you buy?
Performance 3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle Creek View Post
Tesla originated from a science or tech perspective. BMW is a car (traditionally engine) manufacturer and now starts to add tech to the car, which also doesn't always function as it should.

Both companies are developing toward the future .
I would add that the first roadster was a Lotus powered by batteries :-) I don't think anyone here would question Lotus' enthusiast cred. The handling and performance bar was a non-negotiable starting out.

What I'm hoping for is an electric JCW Mini with a 300 mile EPA (not Euro) range. That's one bmw brand vehicle I'd surely buy. If they make one, then I'd believe that Bavaria is marching towards the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
When I worked for Tesla during the early years of the Model S, I was definitely impressed with the acceleration and fact they even brought an EV sedan to the market. A massive achievement in of itself.

But fun to drive? The Model S is far from that. It's a heavy numb boat, much like the F10 5er of its day.
Good analogy between those two models. Neither of those are enthusiast focused cars.
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      08-17-2019, 04:43 PM   #534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giggler View Post
Knobs, buttons, hand gestures, touch screen, heads up display, voice commands, apple car play (android auto eventually?). I’m counting 6 maybe 7 ways to interface with the vehicle. In that regard, I don’t call that subjective... it’s objectively more advanced and feature-laden.
This is exactly what Blackberry people said when the first iPhones came out.
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      08-18-2019, 05:22 PM   #535
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The main problem I have with Tesla is the cheap interior the huge gaps in the panels and lastly the long long wait for parts if you get into an accident. Friends wife who has a Model 3 got rear ended and it is taking 2 months to get parts and fix. it wasn't even a huge crash.
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      08-18-2019, 06:36 PM   #536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 440xiGCMSport2 View Post
The main problem I have with Tesla is the cheap interior the huge gaps in the panels and lastly the long long wait for parts if you get into an accident. Friends wife who has a Model 3 got rear ended and it is taking 2 months to get parts and fix. it wasn't even a huge crash.
Even Bob Lutz, huge Tesla critic, admitted that fit and finish and “panel gaps” were impeccable on the model 3.

As for the interior, I love the black and white interior on my 3. Not sure if you’ve seen a 3 with it? It has a space age vibe and easily the best interior I’ve been in. (The standard black interior does feel a little drab but so does the black interior on any bmw - I’ve had had a couple of those too).
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      08-18-2019, 07:23 PM   #537
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All Tesla needs to do for me to convert is to update the Model S' interior. I'd like for it to adapt to the newer Model 3's look while also adding in some more luxury features.

In my opinion the model 3 isn't pretty enough for me, so I'd rather have the still very good looking Model S. The looks combined with the greater 370 mile range, bigger interior and hatchback practicality make it more appealing than the Model 3, all its missing is a newer and more luxurious interior, although, it still has a gauge cluster unlike the model 3, so I guess thats one good thing of the older interior.
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      08-19-2019, 11:46 AM   #538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
All Tesla needs to do for me to convert is to update the Model S' interior. I'd like for it to adapt to the newer Model 3's look while also adding in some more luxury features.

In my opinion the model 3 isn't pretty enough for me, so I'd rather have the still very good looking Model S. The looks combined with the greater 370 mile range, bigger interior and hatchback practicality make it more appealing than the Model 3, all its missing is a newer and more luxurious interior, although, it still has a gauge cluster unlike the model 3, so I guess thats one good thing of the older interior.
If you are looking for a GT, Model S is a great car. As of now though, it has the same interior room as the 3 (which is the same as the current 5 series). I agree it would make sense to wait for the refreshed interior, which would give it 7 series room in a 5 series sized package. I'm fairly certain you will lose that cluster in the interior refresh though.
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      08-21-2019, 11:54 AM   #539
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Funny thing happened last night. I was following a Model 3 (not sure which package) and he knew I was behind him so he kicked on the gas. Tell you what, I had a hell of a time keeping up with him.
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      08-21-2019, 12:31 PM   #540
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If it were a 3P you probably wouldn't keep up at all. Those things are like lasers in a straight line.
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      08-21-2019, 03:10 PM   #541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danf72 View Post
If it were a 3P you probably wouldn't keep up at all. Those things are like lasers in a straight line.
Well, yea. The M340 beats the standard and "long range" 3. The performance model is certainly a bit quicker than the M340.
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      08-21-2019, 03:33 PM   #542
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Yep. I think the M3P is quicker and it would also beat the M340 in autocross and on the track (for the first few laps).

I test drove both and I would personally take the M340. The 3P feels soft and lifeless. I don't know why. I guess there is more to the feel of a car than just instant acceleration.
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      08-21-2019, 04:41 PM   #543
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From the way he took a corner (nice and quick with no loss of traction while I lost traction), it looked to be a long-range AWD. It was one of the nicer Model 3's I've seen.
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      08-21-2019, 10:27 PM   #544
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I think I figured out why I don't really get excited about the Model 3 even though it's faster than just about anything else. Maybe I'm slow witted and that's why it took me so long. The whole car is designed to be part of a taxi service fleet. The only reason it has a steering wheel and pedals is because self driving hasn't progressed fast enough. The car is designed to turn the driver into a passenger. The whole driving experience is an unnecessary option. Contrast that to a true sports car where the driving experience is front and center. I know there are a lot of people who disagree and find the Model 3 super fun and engaging. That's cool. But for me I want the car to wrap around the driver and focus on the driving experience.
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      08-28-2019, 08:37 PM   #545
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Coming from an ‘09 335i sedan (with lots of repairs along the way), I also debating getting another 3-series or a Model 3. I still chose to get a new '19 330i just a few months ago, LOL. The driving experience is just not there in an electric car. Feeling the engine rev up as you push on the throttle just can't be replaced.
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      09-01-2019, 06:31 AM   #546
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Auto Express (UK) compares the G20 and Model 3:

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/tesla/...l-showdown?amp
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      09-01-2019, 09:03 AM   #547
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Auto Express (UK) compares the G20 and Model 3:

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/tesla/...l-showdown?amp
Thanks for the link. The way they described the g20 sounded like a generally more rewarding drive to me (even if not in every aspect).
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      09-01-2019, 05:02 PM   #548
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Quote:
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Thanks for the link. The way they described the g20 sounded like a generally more rewarding drive to me (even if not in every aspect).
The fact that the Model 3, a clean-sheet design that’s only been on the market for 18 months, wins the comparison with the car/line that BMW has had decades to perfect is the most telling aspect.
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      09-01-2019, 05:13 PM   #549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danf72 View Post
I think I figured out why I don't really get excited about the Model 3 even though it's faster than just about anything else. Maybe I'm slow witted and that's why it took me so long. The whole car is designed to be part of a taxi service fleet. The only reason it has a steering wheel and pedals is because self driving hasn't progressed fast enough. The car is designed to turn the driver into a passenger. The whole driving experience is an unnecessary option. Contrast that to a true sports car where the driving experience is front and center. I know there are a lot of people who disagree and find the Model 3 super fun and engaging. That's cool. But for me I want the car to wrap around the driver and focus on the driving experience.
I agree with this. There's nothing engaging about a Model 3 to me; from the aesthetics to the driving experience. Speed/acceleration, alone, isn't everything......otherwise we'd all likely be driving something different than a BMW.
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      09-01-2019, 08:11 PM   #550
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuller View Post
Thanks for the link. The way they described the g20 sounded like a generally more rewarding drive to me (even if not in every aspect).
The fact that the Model 3, a clean-sheet design that’s only been on the market for 18 months, wins the comparison with the car/line that BMW has had decades to perfect is the most telling aspect.
In the world of automobile journalism, this is old news.

In reality though, the 3 series, and automotive technology in general, has changed so much since it's inception, and teams of engineers have come and gone at bmw and every other manufacturer, so I don't think it's completely accurate to say that bmw has had decades to fine tune the 3 series. It assumes a nice neat, linear continuity that doesn't really exist. For one example, all it takes is a newer manufacturer to poach an engineer from a more "experienced" brand's team, and they acquire a fair bit of that wisdom and experience.
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