[xlover]

Originally Posted by mbanck

Pretty unlikely the new 2 coupe will have a manual, except for the M2. Unless BMW does a u-turn here and reintroduces the manual for non M-cars.

the manual is gone now from being paired with anything except the S58 M motor... if the purists want to bang the drum at the Mperformance level they should be pushing for the RWD M440, that may actually have a chance.

Purist demand was able to get a USA only RWD M340 approved but if the latest from ynguldyn is any indication the RWD M440 is at risk. Meaning the RWD M340 is probably getting more forum/carmag votes than actual wallets opening.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by mbanck

Pretty unlikely the new 2 coupe will have a manual, except for the M2. Unless BMW does a u-turn here and reintroduces the manual for non M-cars.

..everything i've read is S58+6MT is only paring with true manual... anyone have other info?

[swagon]

Originally Posted by Frosty

..everything i've read is S58+6MT is only paring with true manual... anyone have other info?

There is going to be a RWD manual M3/M4, yes. Only way to get a manual 3/4 Series.

[spool twice]

The more I see the cars proportions in its entirity, the better its starting to look. The grill size/width gets rid of the visual heft of the F series design, yet at the same time looks sculped and muscular underneath that camo.

I am really starting to like the look now that more and more camo is being shed.

[JTO24]

For those questioning whether or not they changed the grills back to be smaller... we've already seen a less camo'd mule...


The car is getting the big grills.

[Frosty]

... currently the 4 series is a 2nd half 2020 release? M4, is that mid 2021?

[swagon]

Originally Posted by spool twice

The more I see the cars proportions in its entirity, the better its starting to look. The grill size/width gets rid of the visual heft of the F series design, yet at the same time looks sculped and muscular underneath that camo.

I am really starting to like the look now that more and more camo is being shed.

Once the dust settles, watch the people start liking the new 4er.

It's the same story over and over again with each new BMW model that comes out.

[SchwarzerReiter]

I like how they covered the interior. As if we didnt know that it's going to be the same bland plastic crap from the 3 series.

[SchwarzerReiter]

Also what's the point of revealing the camouflaged car? Whoop dee do car industry, we cant see anything.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by Jockey

It's still a mechanical rack.

Hydraulic boosted steering is gone for good.

Nothing is in disagreement with me here. Of course we're still using a mechanical rack, and hydraulic power steering is in the past. However neither of those points counter my point that the electric steering numbness will not be solved by writing new lines of code. My contention is it will require new hardware.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by jstein55

BMW uses the same ZF steering rack/mechanics that a lot of other companies (who have better steering feel) use as well, so hardware and mechanicals I don't think are the issue, its simply that BMW purposefully tunes out any feel on every single of their vehicles.

Poppycock. BMW is trying to claw back some steering feel, it's just that we're only on the 2nd or maybe 3rd gen electric steering systems. Technology hasn't brought better systems to market (at least with BMW) yet. My contention is if it were as simple as software it would be fixed already. This is an issue of hardware limitations. We need innovation and new hardware technology to evolve before we get our feel back.

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier

Nothing is in disagreement with me here. Of course we're still using a mechanical rack, and hydraulic power steering is in the past. However neither of those points counter my point that the electric steering numbness will not be solved by writing new lines of code. My contention is it will require new hardware.

If the steering is already directly mechanically connected, how can one achieve "mechanical feel will be returned through more direct mechanical connections"?

It's not the mechanical aspect of EPS that's at fault for steering feel, it's the programming.

See anyone who's reprogrammed their civic or ZCP F8X steering to GTS or CS spec.

[mbanck]

Originally Posted by SchwarzerReiter

Also what's the point of revealing the camouflaged car? Whoop dee do car industry, we cant see anything.

This press event was about driving it, not looking at it.

[SabineBimmer]

Originally Posted by Jockey

It's still a mechanical rack.

Hydraulic boosted steering is gone for good.

This is a shame. I was reading through the puff piece, which BMW Group EXCELS at. For example:

"The model line-up provides another indication of the new BMW 4 Series Coupe's unwavering commitment to class-leading driving dynamics."

Give me a f***ing break. I get it, really I do, but if they're going to use hyperbole they better back it up. Such as...

HYDRAULIC STEERING

[J-RO]

Originally Posted by Dog Face Pony Soldier

Poppycock. BMW is trying to claw back some steering feel, it's just that we're only on the 2nd or maybe 3rd gen electric steering systems. Technology hasn't brought better systems to market (at least with BMW) yet. My contention is if it were as simple as software it would be fixed already. This is an issue of hardware limitations. We need innovation and new hardware technology to evolve before we get our feel back.

Have not heard that term used in a while.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by SabineBimmer

"The model line-up provides another indication of the new BMW 4 Series Coupe's unwavering commitment to class-leading driving dynamics."

This made me laugh out loud.

[KevinM]

While I have always believed that separating the 3 series sedan and coupe into the 3 and 4 series was an unnecessary marketing exercise. However, it looks as if BMW is actually making the 4 series significantly different...

As expected, too bad about no MT, but at least we'll have one in the M3/4.

[Jockey]

Originally Posted by SabineBimmer

This is a shame. I was reading through the puff piece, which BMW Group EXCELS at. For example:

"The model line-up provides another indication of the new BMW 4 Series Coupe's unwavering commitment to class-leading driving dynamics."

Give me a f***ing break. I get it, really I do, but if they're going to use hyperbole they better back it up. Such as...

HYDRAULIC STEERING

My steering is always in comfort mode. Easier to control oversteer that way.

Anyways, I got used to the steering feel, even started to think it felt good. Then I would drive my gf's 135i and instantly realized how superior the feel was in that car over my M3.


But hyd steering is gone. Electric is cheaper, more reliable, and less mechanically complicated (less parasitic drag on engine, accessories, etc).

Porsche has figured it out. BMW has made gains (reference my comment earlier on CS/GTS programming over standard Ms). It'll get there.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by KevinM

While I have always believed that separating the 3 series sedan and coupe into the 3 and 4 series was an unnecessary marketing exercise. However, it looks as if BMW is actually making the 4 series significantly different...

As expected, too bad about no MT, but at least we'll have one in the M3/4.

I agree... gives reason to get the 4GC over the 3.

However, I'm betting the M3 and M4 will be similar in feel... which in this case is a good thing.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by Jockey

If the steering is already directly mechanically connected, how can one achieve "mechanical feel will be returned through more direct mechanical connections"?

It's not the mechanical aspect of EPS that's at fault for steering feel, it's the programming.

See anyone who's reprogrammed their civic or ZCP F8X steering to GTS or CS spec.

I don't believe programming is going to provide the fix. For the third time now I'm contending new hardware is what is required. To me, saying new programming is going to fix the steering feel is like saying you can reprogram electronic dampers to behave like a high-end aftermarket damper... or code can make an OEM turbo perform just like a higher-end/built aftermarket turbo. The code is only controlling the hardware; and hardware is the limitation here. Do people really think the design and construction of steering box hardware can't be advanced, and now it's just software's job? That's ridiculous.

If new programming is all that's required, why did BMW spec a different steering box in the F80 and not just use the F30 steering box? Who needs a v8 when we can just write some code for that inline 3 cylinder from the i8?

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by J-RO

Have not heard that term used in a while.

Always looking for an opportunity to work the word cock into a sentence!

[therealm3]

Originally Posted by m3welt

Is it me or does it look like the grills are going to be smaller and more in line with the 3 series? I thought they were going to share the massive ones on the leaked m3/m4's?

I noticed the same. One can only hope.