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2019+ BMW 3 AND 4-SERIES FORUMS (G2x Generation) Ordering / Pricing / Order Tracking Forum The 2020 M340i xDrive Starts at $56,995 in the US

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      12-11-2018, 07:58 PM   #177
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Wow, what a joke for a 3 series. I do aware of the inflation rate but No thank you!! I remember 5 series were starting in the low fifties, only a few years ago.
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      12-11-2018, 10:17 PM   #178
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Sounds about right... MSRP for my 2016 335i M-Sport xDrive was $61K, and it's not even fully loaded. $57K base with all the performance goodies is not cheap, but not out of line either.
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      12-11-2018, 11:05 PM   #179
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Yes I don't disagree. The Giulia is a mediocre car but I hear it's the best to drive in its segment. In 3 years time I'll likely be looking for my next car and will have to consider it for the driving dynamics alone. I really hope the G20 feels like a BMW should behind the wheel, I hear the reviews are around the corner...
With a sliced Ferrari engine, I expect at least enginewise something nice. Maybe you are able to get some data on the depreciation but I don’t think is a good number.

I am also hoping for good dynamics on the G but even so, maybe a nice LCI will change it in a better looking. Quality must also be up for these new pricing...
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      12-12-2018, 02:47 AM   #180
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More expensive than base X3 M40i? They better have some amazing lease programs or people will be going to Audi.
Some already have...and not looking back...New A6 is stunning inside and out...
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      12-12-2018, 04:45 PM   #181
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Can you option for RWD?
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      12-12-2018, 05:51 PM   #182
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Can you option for RWD?
the USA will get a rwd version but it has not been confirmed in anything I have read for markets beyond the US.
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      12-17-2018, 11:46 AM   #183
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I just have to say this is super disappointing and I don't see how BMW can keep this up long term. A new Honda Accord for $24k comes with steer assist, full-stop radar cruise, and Carplay which as far as I'm concerned is better than any "real" satnav system. I just got a company car, a Camry XLE, which similarly has leather, dual climate, pano sunroof, Carplay, radar cruise, wireless phone charger, heated seats and it was $27k. Obviously the BMW is the better car but how can it not come with basically anything standard at such a price? How can an Accord or Camry at half the price offer significantly better tech and features than a car 2x as much? I don't remember it being like this even 2 years ago. 2 years ago a Honda Accord had absolutely no advantage or consideration vs a 340i, but now, it is more spacious, has a nice interior (previous gen Accord interior was atrocious), and better tech than the 3er unless you load it to over $60k?

When comparing to similar caliber cars it's just as bad. You can get an E300 for mid to high 50s and while not as fast or sporty is just absolutely a better car. Hell, even the 540i is under $59k and is surely a better and more well equipped vehicle. I'm just not sure I understand the market for this except people who just don't care about value. If it's purely about driver experience for you then get an M3 which would be barely more. Who is this car for?
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      12-17-2018, 12:24 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by newuser310 View Post
I don't see how BMW can keep this up long term.
As long as people keep buying it, they have no reason to change. Specifically, as long as people convince themselves the price is worth it for reasons that aren't listed in the options list, BMW can keep charging for features other brands make standard.

Honda's value proposition is about value for your dollar in long-term reliability and features

BMW's is about driving feel and emotion. As long as the emotion play keeps selling, they can keep charging the way they do for these options.
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      12-17-2018, 12:26 PM   #185
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so you want me to turn my existing 340xi in for one made in mexico that has a higher MSRP with less standard equipment.

K, that'll keep me from buying a model3 performance won't it.
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      12-18-2018, 12:22 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by Araemo View Post
As long as people keep buying it, they have no reason to change. Specifically, as long as people convince themselves the price is worth it for reasons that aren't listed in the options list, BMW can keep charging for features other brands make standard.

Honda's value proposition is about value for your dollar in long-term reliability and features

BMW's is about driving feel and emotion. As long as the emotion play keeps selling, they can keep charging the way they do for these options.
That’s what I’m saying though, it’s becoming such a poor value that they won’t be able to sustain it because people will stop buying it.
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      12-18-2018, 08:48 AM   #187
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That’s what I’m saying though, it’s becoming such a poor value that they won’t be able to sustain it because people will stop buying it.
I find myself sort of coming around on the G20. I generally am in the camp that it's not that attractive and that it seems overpriced. I don't think any iteration of a non-M 3 series should start higher than a Corvette or a 718. However, from a value perspective, it will probably be pretty good compared to the alternatives. Based on initial reviews of the 330i M-sport, this car should be really good. Given how large it has gotten, it's like having a 5 series just a few years ago. The 2008 535xi started at $52,375 and the C&D test car pushed past $70k. Those were 2008 dollars. If you think about it, this is a much, much better value proposition.
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      12-19-2018, 10:44 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by FRAU GRAU View Post
I find myself sort of coming around on the G20. I generally am in the camp that it's not that attractive and that it seems overpriced. I don't think any iteration of a non-M 3 series should start higher than a Corvette or a 718. However, from a value perspective, it will probably be pretty good compared to the alternatives. Based on initial reviews of the 330i M-sport, this car should be really good. Given how large it has gotten, it's like having a 5 series just a few years ago. The 2008 535xi started at $52,375 and the C&D test car pushed past $70k. Those were 2008 dollars. If you think about it, this is a much, much better value proposition.
It indeed may be comparable to direct competitors such as the C43 (which is several thousand cheaper as it happens), however, what I was originally pointing out is how manufacturers such as Toyota and Honda have made significant strides in terms of features and standard equipment while it seems that BMW/Mercedes still prefer to charge for everything.

Again just compare standard equipment on a <$30k Accord or Camry. Obviously they are not the better car but while 3 years ago I wouldn't have even understood comparing them it's hard not to look at what you can get for less than half as much. Granted, I'm focusing more on what tech and driver features you can get. If all you care about is ride comfort and sportiness obviously the comparison is more obviously in the BMW's favor.
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      12-19-2018, 02:50 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newuser310 View Post
It indeed may be comparable to direct competitors such as the C43 (which is several thousand cheaper as it happens), however, what I was originally pointing out is how manufacturers such as Toyota and Honda have made significant strides in terms of features and standard equipment while it seems that BMW/Mercedes still prefer to charge for everything.

Again just compare standard equipment on a <$30k Accord or Camry. Obviously they are not the better car but while 3 years ago I wouldn't have even understood comparing them it's hard not to look at what you can get for less than half as much. Granted, I'm focusing more on what tech and driver features you can get. If all you care about is ride comfort and sportiness obviously the comparison is more obviously in the BMW's favor.
I feel like you're not taking into account that not all systems fulfilling the same basic purpose are created equal. There are reversing cameras and then there are reversing cameras. Same goes for 360 views, parking assistants, adaptive cruise controls, etc... basically any tech and driver features you're focusing on.

Just because the basic feature is available on much cheaper cars, doesn't mean the same research, development and testing (meaning $$$) went into it. May not even include all the same functionality.

Honestly, I'm no expert at what those systems offer and how they feel like when you're actually living with them on the daily, but just my two cents about comparing them directly regarding the price. I'm also not saying the mark-up is justifiable in every case necessarily, but there's that.
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      12-20-2018, 12:34 AM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ls3c6 View Post
so you want me to turn my existing 340xi in for one made in mexico that has a higher MSRP with less standard equipment.

K, that'll keep me from buying a model3 performance won't it.
Lots of talk from everyone.

What are you waiting for? Vote with your wallet if you feel that strongly about it.
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      12-21-2018, 07:08 AM   #191
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This might not apply to the rest of the world but over here it appears on BMW's higher end 1 and 3 series models MSRP means jack. Especially around Xmas and the first quarter.!

My 335D Xdrive had an MSRP of around $55K USD when converted and I picked it up for closer to $40k, my M140i cost around the the same as a 120d and the quotes I got on an M340i were around the 335D mark.

Can't say I'm all that worried TBH..
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      12-21-2018, 10:35 AM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTN View Post
I feel like you're not taking into account that not all systems fulfilling the same basic purpose are created equal. There are reversing cameras and then there are reversing cameras. Same goes for 360 views, parking assistants, adaptive cruise controls, etc... basically any tech and driver features you're focusing on.

Just because the basic feature is available on much cheaper cars, doesn't mean the same research, development and testing (meaning $$$) went into it. May not even include all the same functionality.

Honestly, I'm no expert at what those systems offer and how they feel like when you're actually living with them on the daily, but just my two cents about comparing them directly regarding the price. I'm also not saying the mark-up is justifiable in every case necessarily, but there's that.
I think BMWs big problem here is optics.... there are some positive value moves they made like they did make the move with the G20 to incorporate several formerly premium tech options as standard like forward collision warning.

But some of the really poor corporate decisions really stand out as outsized black marks against the value prop. like charging for carplay and only bundling it in when someone gets the full Nav system, flies completely in the face of what the market wants (and all competition is doing). Even audi and MB use carplay as leverage to satisfy buyers who do not want the full nav suite they just want a basic nav/infotainment solution. for a buyer it is decisions like that the compound the appearance of poor value.

Last edited by xlover; 12-21-2018 at 12:03 PM..
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      12-21-2018, 01:28 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTN View Post
I feel like you're not taking into account that not all systems fulfilling the same basic purpose are created equal. There are reversing cameras and then there are reversing cameras. Same goes for 360 views, parking assistants, adaptive cruise controls, etc... basically any tech and driver features you're focusing on.

Just because the basic feature is available on much cheaper cars, doesn't mean the same research, development and testing (meaning $$$) went into it. May not even include all the same functionality.

Honestly, I'm no expert at what those systems offer and how they feel like when you're actually living with them on the daily, but just my two cents about comparing them directly regarding the price. I'm also not saying the mark-up is justifiable in every case necessarily, but there's that.
That's actually exactly what I'm taking into account, though. The radar cruise on my company Camry is flawless. The heated seats are perfect, the leather/stitching look very nice and are very comfortable. The in dash entertainment is miles better than what I had in my F30 (though it was iDrive 6 - I know the new one is great). I'm pointing out that the "similar" features we saw say 2 or 3 years ago were clearly much better in the BMW's and that I'm very impressed with the quality of those features in the Hondas and Toyotas now.

Don't get me wrong, I would absolutely rather drive just about any BMW. I am just seeing a small gap regarding tech and features where I used to see a large one.
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      12-22-2018, 05:11 AM   #194
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That's actually exactly what I'm taking into account, though. The radar cruise on my company Camry is flawless. The heated seats are perfect, the leather/stitching look very nice and are very comfortable. The in dash entertainment is miles better than what I had in my F30 (though it was iDrive 6 - I know the new one is great). I'm pointing out that the "similar" features we saw say 2 or 3 years ago were clearly much better in the BMW's and that I'm very impressed with the quality of those features in the Hondas and Toyotas now.

Don't get me wrong, I would absolutely rather drive just about any BMW. I am just seeing a small gap regarding tech and features where I used to see a large one.

That's definitely the trend in tech generally, but comparing ""similar" features we saw say 2 or 3 years ago" with the "now" isn't exactly the comparison to make. Compare the features we see today or in the coming months with the "now".

Also, on my point of "they may not even inculde all the same functionality" I exactly meant to say look further than the basic function.

Hypothetical:
Okay, your adaptive cruise is flawless. Does it come with a heated radar (not sure that's on every BMW, but iirc it is on the 5 for example?), does it provide stop&go functionality, does it operate in the same speed range?

Your heated seats are perfect. Can they be programmed to come on automatically below certain temperatures? Does the car learn the pattern when you turn them on, and to which level, to automatically do that for you?

Now again, these are just "hypotheticals" to get my point across better on what I meant that even though the basic feature might be present, it doesn't mean it's the "same module" and comes with all the same functionality, research, and developement behind it. We can argue whether the additional features are worth the mark-up on either an objective or subjective level, but that's for the individual to decide.

Last edited by KTN; 12-22-2018 at 06:37 AM..
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      12-23-2018, 02:47 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTN View Post
That's definitely the trend in tech generally, but comparing ""similar" features we saw say 2 or 3 years ago" with the "now" isn't exactly the comparison to make. Compare the features we see today or in the coming months with the "now".

Also, on my point of "they may not even inculde all the same functionality" I exactly meant to say look further than the basic function.

Hypothetical:
Okay, your adaptive cruise is flawless. Does it come with a heated radar (not sure that's on every BMW, but iirc it is on the 5 for example?), does it provide stop&go functionality, does it operate in the same speed range?

Your heated seats are perfect. Can they be programmed to come on automatically below certain temperatures? Does the car learn the pattern when you turn them on, and to which level, to automatically do that for you?

Now again, these are just "hypotheticals" to get my point across better on what I meant that even though the basic feature might be present, it doesn't mean it's the "same module" and comes with all the same functionality, research, and developement behind it. We can argue whether the additional features are worth the mark-up on either an objective or subjective level, but that's for the individual to decide.
I'm talking about standard features on 2019s versus standard features on 2016s. Not comparing a 2019 Camry to a 2016 BMW.

I know that the features on a $60k car are going to be better for various reasons than a $30k car. I'm merely pointing out that the gap between what you get and how well it works seems to be shrinking drastically between such price points, whereas 2 or 3 years ago I saw much larger gaps in tech and features.
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      12-27-2018, 04:50 PM   #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newuser310 View Post
That's actually exactly what I'm taking into account, though. The radar cruise on my company Camry is flawless. The heated seats are perfect, the leather/stitching look very nice and are very comfortable. The in dash entertainment is miles better than what I had in my F30 (though it was iDrive 6 - I know the new one is great). I'm pointing out that the "similar" features we saw say 2 or 3 years ago were clearly much better in the BMW's and that I'm very impressed with the quality of those features in the Hondas and Toyotas now.

Don't get me wrong, I would absolutely rather drive just about any BMW. I am just seeing a small gap regarding tech and features where I used to see a large one.
+1, lets also not forget the reliability of those cars. Yes, some of us are willing to pay more for the "driving experience" but for how long? Look at the stupid / insane repairs a 10 year old BMW requires vs a Toyota & etc.

Further, the technology on my 2015 Subaru Legacy was light years ahead of my 2016 5er.... so, I don't get the previous comments about back up cams & etc.

I guarantee you that Subarus technology will be working just fine after 10 years while BMWs will be.......whi knows

We have plenty of BMWs with over 150K miles in the fam and its mainly thanks to my BIL who can fix the impossible repairs for super cheap for us as he is a cert BMW mechanic...... If we were actually paying for all of those repairs, no one would afford to own them long term.

Latest victim BTW is a 2011 F10 535 with 110K miles and the manual transmission went out / completely out. None of us have seen a manual transmission go out ever! Dealer quote $8K, we got it done at home around $2K.....

The big question is, will I continue to lease them? And the answer is YES! Will I own one out of warranty and that is a big fat no.
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      12-27-2018, 11:02 PM   #197
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Wow what a joke, they just shot themselves in the foot. Whats stopping somebody from buying an M3 at that price point, especially with some of the additional features you'd want added? There goes that plan for me. This is really stupid I'm actually pissed.
Probably the G80 will have an msrp
Of probably $70k-75k
Well equipped can easily reach $90k
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      01-13-2019, 06:31 PM   #198
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At the $57k price point, it probably means a well equipped M340i will run around $68-70k (MSRP). You can get a fairly well equipped 540i for that MSRP price, even less if you get a leftover from the previous year (there were some pretty hefty discounts on them). I think the average person would opt for the 540i versus the M340i if they were similar in price. The M340i then becomes more of a niche car aimed solely at people who want a more performance oriented car but can't afford the full M3. With that in mind, I would expect sales to suffer compared to the F30 340i.

With higher interest rates, and BMW doing away with combined discounts (for example: Loyalty lease cash + Corporate Fleet lease cash), BMWs won't lease as well as they have which will increase the overall cost to people leasing the car. I'd expect a $70k M340i to lease at around $800/month before taxes - maybe a little more/less depending on what the invoice pricing is and what discounts are available.

Considering you can also lease a leftover 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia QV for around $899/month before taxes with $0 down, I think would rather spend the extra money on the QV even if it has a lot less creature comforts and questionable reliability than the M340i (although a first year car, who knows how reliable it will be).

Last edited by Liquid_Ice; 01-13-2019 at 06:41 PM..
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