12-11-2018, 07:58 PM | #177 |
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Wow, what a joke for a 3 series. I do aware of the inflation rate but No thank you!! I remember 5 series were starting in the low fifties, only a few years ago.
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12-11-2018, 10:17 PM | #178 |
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Sounds about right... MSRP for my 2016 335i M-Sport xDrive was $61K, and it's not even fully loaded. $57K base with all the performance goodies is not cheap, but not out of line either.
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12-11-2018, 11:05 PM | #179 | |
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I am also hoping for good dynamics on the G but even so, maybe a nice LCI will change it in a better looking. Quality must also be up for these new pricing... |
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12-12-2018, 02:47 AM | #180 |
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12-12-2018, 04:45 PM | #181 |
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Can you option for RWD?
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12-12-2018, 05:51 PM | #182 |
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12-17-2018, 11:46 AM | #183 |
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I just have to say this is super disappointing and I don't see how BMW can keep this up long term. A new Honda Accord for $24k comes with steer assist, full-stop radar cruise, and Carplay which as far as I'm concerned is better than any "real" satnav system. I just got a company car, a Camry XLE, which similarly has leather, dual climate, pano sunroof, Carplay, radar cruise, wireless phone charger, heated seats and it was $27k. Obviously the BMW is the better car but how can it not come with basically anything standard at such a price? How can an Accord or Camry at half the price offer significantly better tech and features than a car 2x as much? I don't remember it being like this even 2 years ago. 2 years ago a Honda Accord had absolutely no advantage or consideration vs a 340i, but now, it is more spacious, has a nice interior (previous gen Accord interior was atrocious), and better tech than the 3er unless you load it to over $60k?
When comparing to similar caliber cars it's just as bad. You can get an E300 for mid to high 50s and while not as fast or sporty is just absolutely a better car. Hell, even the 540i is under $59k and is surely a better and more well equipped vehicle. I'm just not sure I understand the market for this except people who just don't care about value. If it's purely about driver experience for you then get an M3 which would be barely more. Who is this car for? |
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12-17-2018, 12:24 PM | #184 |
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As long as people keep buying it, they have no reason to change. Specifically, as long as people convince themselves the price is worth it for reasons that aren't listed in the options list, BMW can keep charging for features other brands make standard.
Honda's value proposition is about value for your dollar in long-term reliability and features BMW's is about driving feel and emotion. As long as the emotion play keeps selling, they can keep charging the way they do for these options. |
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12-17-2018, 12:26 PM | #185 |
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so you want me to turn my existing 340xi in for one made in mexico that has a higher MSRP with less standard equipment.
K, that'll keep me from buying a model3 performance won't it.
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12-18-2018, 12:22 AM | #186 | |
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12-18-2018, 08:48 AM | #187 |
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I find myself sort of coming around on the G20. I generally am in the camp that it's not that attractive and that it seems overpriced. I don't think any iteration of a non-M 3 series should start higher than a Corvette or a 718. However, from a value perspective, it will probably be pretty good compared to the alternatives. Based on initial reviews of the 330i M-sport, this car should be really good. Given how large it has gotten, it's like having a 5 series just a few years ago. The 2008 535xi started at $52,375 and the C&D test car pushed past $70k. Those were 2008 dollars. If you think about it, this is a much, much better value proposition.
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12-19-2018, 10:44 AM | #188 | |
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Again just compare standard equipment on a <$30k Accord or Camry. Obviously they are not the better car but while 3 years ago I wouldn't have even understood comparing them it's hard not to look at what you can get for less than half as much. Granted, I'm focusing more on what tech and driver features you can get. If all you care about is ride comfort and sportiness obviously the comparison is more obviously in the BMW's favor. |
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12-19-2018, 02:50 PM | #189 | |
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Just because the basic feature is available on much cheaper cars, doesn't mean the same research, development and testing (meaning $$$) went into it. May not even include all the same functionality. Honestly, I'm no expert at what those systems offer and how they feel like when you're actually living with them on the daily, but just my two cents about comparing them directly regarding the price. I'm also not saying the mark-up is justifiable in every case necessarily, but there's that. |
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12-20-2018, 12:34 AM | #190 | |
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What are you waiting for? Vote with your wallet if you feel that strongly about it. |
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12-21-2018, 07:08 AM | #191 |
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This might not apply to the rest of the world but over here it appears on BMW's higher end 1 and 3 series models MSRP means jack. Especially around Xmas and the first quarter.!
My 335D Xdrive had an MSRP of around $55K USD when converted and I picked it up for closer to $40k, my M140i cost around the the same as a 120d and the quotes I got on an M340i were around the 335D mark. Can't say I'm all that worried TBH.. |
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12-21-2018, 10:35 AM | #192 | |
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But some of the really poor corporate decisions really stand out as outsized black marks against the value prop. like charging for carplay and only bundling it in when someone gets the full Nav system, flies completely in the face of what the market wants (and all competition is doing). Even audi and MB use carplay as leverage to satisfy buyers who do not want the full nav suite they just want a basic nav/infotainment solution. for a buyer it is decisions like that the compound the appearance of poor value. Last edited by xlover; 12-21-2018 at 12:03 PM.. |
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12-21-2018, 01:28 PM | #193 | |
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Don't get me wrong, I would absolutely rather drive just about any BMW. I am just seeing a small gap regarding tech and features where I used to see a large one. |
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12-22-2018, 05:11 AM | #194 | |
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That's definitely the trend in tech generally, but comparing ""similar" features we saw say 2 or 3 years ago" with the "now" isn't exactly the comparison to make. Compare the features we see today or in the coming months with the "now". Also, on my point of "they may not even inculde all the same functionality" I exactly meant to say look further than the basic function. Hypothetical: Okay, your adaptive cruise is flawless. Does it come with a heated radar (not sure that's on every BMW, but iirc it is on the 5 for example?), does it provide stop&go functionality, does it operate in the same speed range? Your heated seats are perfect. Can they be programmed to come on automatically below certain temperatures? Does the car learn the pattern when you turn them on, and to which level, to automatically do that for you? Now again, these are just "hypotheticals" to get my point across better on what I meant that even though the basic feature might be present, it doesn't mean it's the "same module" and comes with all the same functionality, research, and developement behind it. We can argue whether the additional features are worth the mark-up on either an objective or subjective level, but that's for the individual to decide. Last edited by KTN; 12-22-2018 at 06:37 AM.. |
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12-23-2018, 02:47 PM | #195 | |
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I know that the features on a $60k car are going to be better for various reasons than a $30k car. I'm merely pointing out that the gap between what you get and how well it works seems to be shrinking drastically between such price points, whereas 2 or 3 years ago I saw much larger gaps in tech and features. |
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12-27-2018, 04:50 PM | #196 | |
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Further, the technology on my 2015 Subaru Legacy was light years ahead of my 2016 5er.... so, I don't get the previous comments about back up cams & etc. I guarantee you that Subarus technology will be working just fine after 10 years while BMWs will be.......whi knows We have plenty of BMWs with over 150K miles in the fam and its mainly thanks to my BIL who can fix the impossible repairs for super cheap for us as he is a cert BMW mechanic...... If we were actually paying for all of those repairs, no one would afford to own them long term. Latest victim BTW is a 2011 F10 535 with 110K miles and the manual transmission went out / completely out. None of us have seen a manual transmission go out ever! Dealer quote $8K, we got it done at home around $2K..... The big question is, will I continue to lease them? And the answer is YES! Will I own one out of warranty and that is a big fat no.
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12-27-2018, 11:02 PM | #197 | |
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Of probably $70k-75k Well equipped can easily reach $90k |
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01-13-2019, 06:31 PM | #198 |
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At the $57k price point, it probably means a well equipped M340i will run around $68-70k (MSRP). You can get a fairly well equipped 540i for that MSRP price, even less if you get a leftover from the previous year (there were some pretty hefty discounts on them). I think the average person would opt for the 540i versus the M340i if they were similar in price. The M340i then becomes more of a niche car aimed solely at people who want a more performance oriented car but can't afford the full M3. With that in mind, I would expect sales to suffer compared to the F30 340i.
With higher interest rates, and BMW doing away with combined discounts (for example: Loyalty lease cash + Corporate Fleet lease cash), BMWs won't lease as well as they have which will increase the overall cost to people leasing the car. I'd expect a $70k M340i to lease at around $800/month before taxes - maybe a little more/less depending on what the invoice pricing is and what discounts are available. Considering you can also lease a leftover 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia QV for around $899/month before taxes with $0 down, I think would rather spend the extra money on the QV even if it has a lot less creature comforts and questionable reliability than the M340i (although a first year car, who knows how reliable it will be). Last edited by Liquid_Ice; 01-13-2019 at 06:41 PM.. |
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