[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by francton

It’s still misleading. Ultra indicates that it is superior to the regular Quattro, which it isn’t. They should have called it Quattro efficient or something similar

Marketing. It's in their volume sellers, so of course they're going to make it sound better - and 99% of those buyers don't even know or care about the difference. It's like when I got my M340i and some of my non car enthusiast friends said "whoa so it's better than an M3?" Assuming more numbers after the "M3" must mean more.

[AlienInChicago]

So I have a 2021 Q3 for a while as a loaner.

- tiny trunk
- awesome virtual cockpit
- tech is nice
- hard 20” wheels
- fun drive and engine even at I think 228 hp. Plenty fast enough for suburbs and out and about.

So far I’d say I would be happy in either car, Audi or BMW. Both are a privelage to be in. Since I’m ordering BMW, hills to find that better/enjoy even more.

[DerekTriesG20]

Although this topic focuses on BMW and audi, but what about the three pointed star, any thoughts on the new C-Class?

[LarryMarcia]

Originally Posted by DerekTriesG20

Although this topic focuses on BMW and audi, but what about the three pointed star, any thoughts on the new C-Class?

The new c class: Overall - the best tech, better than either Audi or BMW, but the dash is not nearly as good as the Audi virtual cockpit - which is by far the best out there - nothing comes close and no one has anything like it.

It's unbelievable that no other manufacturer has copied the audi virtual cockpit yet, but whatever.

Otherwise, the new c class has better steering than the BMW, but not as good as Audi, has a very luxurious cabin which is better than BMW or Audi, personally, don't love the looks of the new c class, and not nearly as much fun to drive as the BMW!!!

The Audi may be fastest and have a much better BO stereo and bigger seats, the MB may have the newest tech out there, but it's boring, the BMW may not have great steering and has the very weak HK stereo, but it is the overall best package !

[DerekTriesG20]

Originally Posted by LarryMarcia

The new c class: Overall - the best tech, better than either Audi or BMW, but the dash is not nearly as good as the Audi virtual cockpit - which is by far the best out there - nothing comes close and no one has anything like it.

It's unbelievable that no other manufacturer has copied the audi virtual cockpit yet, but whatever.

Otherwise, the new c class has better steering than the BMW, but not as good as Audi, has a very luxurious cabin which is better than BMW or Audi, personally, don't love the looks of the new c class, and not nearly as much fun to drive as the BMW!!!

The Audi may be fastest and have a much better BO stereo and bigger seats, the MB may have the newest tech out there, but it's boring, the BMW may not have great steering and has the very weak HK stereo, but it is the overall best package !

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the new C-Class, I find it strange but MBUX of the first generation was much more customizable compared to this new C-Class I believe it was powered by generation two of the MBUX system. Not sure why would they remove customizations instead of adding more.

[LarryMarcia]

Never drove the prior C class, so not familiar with it. My feeling is the the new one is mostly a technological marvel - but otherwise very boring.

[dudley@07726]

I had a 2106 Audi A6. Great driving car but unfortunately for me, shit reliability.
In under 30k miles, it was on its 3rd water pump and I replaced the electronic parking brake module. Traded it in for a new 23 M340i. I’m done with Volkswagen group.

[LarryMarcia]

3 water pumps in under 30K miles is terrible. My personal experience - BMW and Audi have similar reliability - both very good.

[CGSNJ59]

Currently deciding with my spouse - for her car - between a new 440 versus a new S5, and. a lot of what is in this thread applies. Anyone know when BMW is set to refresh the 3/4 series and Audi the 4/5 ??

[arentz07]

Originally Posted by CGSNJ59

Currently deciding with my spouse - for her car - between a new 440 versus a new S5, and. a lot of what is in this thread applies. Anyone know when BMW is set to refresh the 3/4 series and Audi the 4/5 ??

The 2024 M440i already has the updated interior layout a la the LCI 3-series. There have been spy shots of an updated exterior for the 4-series, so it will probably be out next year.

I have no idea on Audi.

[Gladius Nova]

Hmmmm...I have the 330i with the HK, and have heard the Audi B&O. HK wins hands down with me. Don't understand folks here saying the HK is "dreadful". To each his own I guess. Now the Mercedes Burmester system sucks IMO.

[CGSNJ59]

To each his own ,, but I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say the HK is better than Audi’s B&O or BMW’s B&W. My personal feeling, the HK, at least in the 3 series, sounds awful. I’d say BO or BW is a million times better. I’ve never read or heard of anyone removing those systems. But you will see thread after thread from users who have swapped out there 3 series stereo, stock or HK for something superior from bimmertech and other suppliers.

[LarryMarcia]

A European automobile is a lot more about engine and performance than stereo. I will still say that the BMW Bowers & Wilkins or Audi Bang & Olufson are far, far, far superior to the Harmon "upgrade" in the 3 series.

I personally removed my HK in the 3 series we got, and spend a little over 3K to get a stereo that is a tremendous improvement at a specialty car audio dealer, and it sounds basically as good as the Bang or Bowers that I've heard.

[phanamous]

Mind sharing more details of your upgrade?! Thanks.

Originally Posted by LarryMarcia

A European automobile is a lot more about engine and performance than stereo. I will still say that the BMW Bowers & Wilkins or Audi Bang & Olufson are far, far, far superior to the Harmon "upgrade" in the 3 series.

I personally removed my HK in the 3 series we got, and spend a little over 3K to get a stereo that is a tremendous improvement at a specialty car audio dealer, and it sounds basically as good as the Bang or Bowers that I've heard.

[LarryMarcia]

It came down to these 3 options for me:

1). Alpha One from Bimmer Tech. Approx $2500 for everything, speakers, Amp... but some model 3 series that were factory equipped with the HK can make some of the Alpha One components a bit tricky to install. When I originally called Alpha One they said put in my VIN at their website and it would show what components will be compatible with my 3 series. They said anyone that calls them that is building (factory ordering) a car from scratch should not opt for the HK as it adds a bit of difficulty in upgrading with their parts.

2). Morel Supremo - approx $5K. If you have extra funds on hand, then go with that, it's probably one of the best sounding car audios I ever heard, at least from what I listened to in the car audio dealer near me.

3) Focal - cost me around 3K installed. It's made in France. This is what I got, and compared to the Harmon that came with our car, the difference is unbelievable. I've listened to BMW's Bowers and Wilkins in their 5 series, I've listened to Audi's Bang and Olufson, I've listened to Lexus' Levinsion and so many other very good car audio systems, and this is at least as good as those, and maybe even better.

No one likes pulling out a stereo from a new car and seeing your new door panels and dash being removed, but I have -0- regrets. The Harmon that came with the car is utterly and downright weak and poor sounding, and in truth, I should have saved around $900 and just got the vehicle with the standard HiFi. BMW may call the Harmon an upgrade, but to me, it seemed like a waste of money.

The 6 hours my car spent in the shop was definitely worth it. Having a great stereo in your vehicle is something that vastly improves the motoring experience. If BMW offered their Bowers audio, which I think is only about a 1K upgrade in their 5 series, I never would have needed to go after market. I really did not want to spend a lot of money on a new car stereo, but the Harmon was just utterly bad sounding.

Final note, I don't think the stereo replacement will void any warranty coverage, but I really don't care. I was not going to live with a 55K car that had that kind of poor sounding stereo. BMW should change from Harmon to Bowers / Wilkins or Bang / Olufson and give the people a real upgrade for their money.

If you are in the Chicago area, I can give you the shop I went to for my installation.