[Panscan340]

Originally Posted by LarryMarcia

If they are similar in performance and MPG, I may just try dropping the 93 octane and go with the 87 octane which is about a dollar a gallon cheaper. The money difference is not that significant but why waste about 1k a year?

I’ll report and post if there is any loss of performance with 87.

You’re driving 35k+ miles a year?

[LarryMarcia]

No about 25k, I figured about 1k extra cost, but maybe it is more like $750? No matter, I don’t want to compromise performance so I’ll see if the 87 feels the same. If not I’ll go back to 93.

[AlienInChicago]

This thread got me thinking again! About to bite the bullet on BMW GC. Likely 430i. But not really sure why. Audi has MY23 prices [better than BMW 24!] and the S5 sportback seems to have quite some advantages. [speed, interior, sound system]....

Still I think I'm getting a BMW.

[blue_seather]

OP, I can't believe how much your feedback aligns with my own observations. I've watched tens of reviews out there and none of them mention those things. If you published your post earlier, I could've spared myself a couple of test drives, haha.

I'm a current Skoda Superb 272 hp owner, which for all intents and purposes is practically the exact same car as a VW Arteon but with a different design and 90% the same car as an Audi A4 TFSI 45 but enlarged and with 7 hp more. I plan on keeping the car for 4 years at most and it's been 2 and half already so I've already started making plans for my next purchase. I'd love a proper petrol S4 or an S5 but here in Europe they come only in diesel variants and it makes no sense to pick over a 45 or my own current car for that matter. As I want a performance upgrade above all else, I've narrowed down my choice to an M440i GC.

I tested one last week and my observations are similar to yours albeit for a different chassis and engine under the hood. Underwhelming HK sound, little to no rear seats legroom and, most of all, the narrow seats (and keep in mind I'm tall and quite slender). The Adaptive M Suspension was even better than expected but I share the feeling that it may be quite harsh on some pointier road bumps. The car propelled me from my seat at several occasions during the test drive which has never happened to me in another vehicle before.

I'm really hesitant whether to just order an M440i GC right away or wait to see what Audi and Skoda offer at the end of this year as the current models are truly outdated already. There are rumors that there will no longer be an A5 Sportback, which is a pity as I love hatches, and the next A4, and therefore the Superb and the Passat too, would be estate-only... and I don't like estates at all.

It'd be very interesting to know if the narrow seats issue is something that one can get used to, especially on longer journeys, whether the HK can be improved with just settings and if going for non-RFTs makes for a significant improvement and make the car not propel you from your seat into mid-air.

EDIT: Forgot about my other gripe with the car. The wireless charger simply cooked my phone. I've always not liked those much for overheating the phone while using Android Auto/Apple Carplay especially, but the BMW's was next level.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by blue_seather

There are rumors that there will no longer be an A5 Sportback, which is a pity as I love hatches, and the next A4, and therefore the Superb and the Passat too, would be estate-only... and I don't like estates at all.

The more recent rumor and likely scenario for the B10 generation is that the A4 in sedan form will be discontinued. The A4 lineup will be the A4 Avant (wagon) and Allroad with availability for the majority of the world, and only the A4 Allroad would be available in North America. The A5 Coupe would be killed off, and the A5 Sportback would be the successor to both the B9 A4 sedan and A5 Sportback. So in reality (if true) all models of the A4 and A5 family would live on as hatchback/sportback.

[blue_seather]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

The more recent rumor and likely scenario for the B10 generation is that the A4 in sedan form will be discontinued. The A4 lineup will be the A4 Avant (wagon) and Allroad with availability for the majority of the world, and only the A4 Allroad would be available in North America. The A5 Coupe would be killed off, and the A5 Sportback would be the successor to both the B9 A4 sedan and A5 Sportback. So in reality (if true) all models of the A4 and A5 family would live on as hatchback/sportback.

I really hope you're right but I guess it could take a while for an A5 to be released and unfortunately I'd have to order before that so an M440i it is, I guess. A petrol V6 S5 would be pretty neat, though, even though highly unlikely.

I also don't quite like VW's interior direction which Audi will surely follow. I'm almost certain that the next gen Audis will feel cheaper and more badly laid out inside than the current gen. And the current gen already looks outdated compared to the BMW so I guess iDrive 8 is currently the best compromise between quality and "modernness".

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by blue_seather

I really hope you're right but I guess it could take a while for an A5 to be released and unfortunately I'd have to order before that so an M440i it is, I guess. A petrol V6 S5 would be pretty neat, though, even though highly unlikely.

I also don't quite like VW's interior direction which Audi will surely follow. I'm almost certain that the next gen Audis will feel cheaper and more badly laid out inside than the current gen. And the current gen already looks outdated compared to the BMW so I guess iDrive 8 is currently the best compromise between quality and "modernness".

The good thing Audi has going for them right now, is that they have delayed the release of the B10 generation but it allows them to look at the competition (G20 3 Series of course at the top of the hill). I can't see them releasing a product that still does not complete, but who knows. The are definitely going the "all screen" approach as well as seen in some spy photos of the interior. I'm in a 2022 Audi RS5 right now but it could be my last Audi if their next gen of vehicles aren't up to par with other offerings. Not sure where I would go next, maybe Porsche, maybe something else.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by blue_seather

OP, I can't believe how much your feedback aligns with my own observations. I've watched tens of reviews out there and none of them mention those things. If you published your post earlier, I could've spared myself a couple of test drives, haha.

I'm a current Skoda Superb 272 hp owner, which for all intents and purposes is practically the exact same car as a VW Arteon but with a different design and 90% the same car as an Audi A4 TFSI 45 but enlarged and with 7 hp more. I plan on keeping the car for 4 years at most and it's been 2 and half already so I've already started making plans for my next purchase. I'd love a proper petrol S4 or an S5 but here in Europe they come only in diesel variants and it makes no sense to pick over a 45 or my own current car for that matter. As I want a performance upgrade above all else, I've narrowed down my choice to an M440i GC.

I tested one last week and my observations are similar to yours albeit for a different chassis and engine under the hood. Underwhelming HK sound, little to no rear seats legroom and, most of all, the narrow seats (and keep in mind I'm tall and quite slender). The Adaptive M Suspension was even better than expected but I share the feeling that it may be quite harsh on some pointier road bumps. The car propelled me from my seat at several occasions during the test drive which has never happened to me in another vehicle before.

I'm really hesitant whether to just order an M440i GC right away or wait to see what Audi and Skoda offer at the end of this year as the current models are truly outdated already. There are rumors that there will no longer be an A5 Sportback, which is a pity as I love hatches, and the next A4, and therefore the Superb and the Passat too, would be estate-only... and I don't like estates at all.

It'd be very interesting to know if the narrow seats issue is something that one can get used to, especially on longer journeys, whether the HK can be improved with just settings and if going for non-RFTs makes for a significant improvement and make the car not propel you from your seat into mid-air.

EDIT: Forgot about my other gripe with the car. The wireless charger simply cooked my phone. I've always not liked those much for overheating the phone while using Android Auto/Apple Carplay especially, but the BMW's was next level.

have a M340i and that's a spot on description. when my rear of the car jumps over seemingly minor bumps sometimes the driveline gets a massive shock because the rear wheels will be powered to rotation while in the air and then suddenly rotation is cut off when wheels hit the ground, i'm very aware of bumps now!

regarding jumping springs (it's not just the dampers it's the very stiff rear springs + very high rear tire pressure [see the door jamb] + run flats

but you can code comfort plus and the dampers will turn into very squishy. release a bit of tire pressure, use non run flats. spring will remain what it is.

i can't imagine it being like that in the M3/M4 hence i suspect the main culprit is the run flat tires as the M cars don't come with run flats.

[francton]

What about handling? I heard that Audi are using their new front wheel biased Quattro in the A4. If so, it’s handling would be inferior compared to the rear wheel biased xdrive that Bmw use. Did you notice a difference?

[francton]

Originally Posted by Kvally

I did not know that. Very interesting. I am glad I went with my purchase of a 330i (it's at the port today!! almost delivery time). I would not buy a front biased car.

They named their new front wheel biased system as “Quattro with ultra”. However Audi sneakily simply mention Quattro in their tech specs, so buyers have no idea which cars have the excellent original Quattro and which cars have the crappy new one. The new Quattro with ultra mostly drives on front wheel only, and switches on the rear wheels only when it detects slip. They are going the way of Lexus.

[TakeshiJin]

Originally Posted by AiC73

This thread got me thinking again! About to bite the bullet on BMW GC. Likely 430i. But not really sure why. Audi has MY23 prices [better than BMW 24!] and the S5 sportback seems to have quite some advantages. [speed, interior, sound system]....

Still I think I'm getting a BMW.

No, Simply no it's not a good sound system at all in the A5 sport back! As someone who has driven and tested the Bang & Olufsen system in all three Audi cars A4 : A5 Coupe , & A5 Sport back ; I can guarantee that the A5 Sportback is the worst muffled system B&O system ever. They put the subwoofer under a trunk mat so the bass is distorted and muffled like it's going through some dam paper cones. The tuning never happened for the A5 Sportback and it sounds like a hallowed one way cave.

• A4 > A5 Coupe >> fill in as many Bose systems as possible > A5 Sportback is how bad the B&O in that car is.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by LarryMarcia

No about 25k, I figured about 1k extra cost, but maybe it is more like $750? No matter, I don’t want to compromise performance so I’ll see if the 87 feels the same. If not I’ll go back to 93.

NOT a good idea. MINIMUM octane is 89 and that’s still not a very good idea. With 87 octane the computer will be constantly retarding ignition to prevent knock and physical damage to the motor. If you can’t afford to use premium fuel (at least 91 octane) then it’s not a good idea to buy a BMW. Buy a Costco or Sam’s Club membership and buy gas there. In Chicagoland it’s almost $1 cheaper than just about everywhere else.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by SLGrassoPA

I don't know the MPG difference, but 93 Octane does perform best for me, I can actually feel the difference. I do wonder if higher octane gets less or more MPG in real world driving. I also wonder if I just went with 87 Octane and saved a lot of money if it would affect the car mechanically...

I pay approx an extra dollar for 93 versus 87.

See the post above

[thepianist1]

How would you compare safety features? Audi has turn assist, safe exit warning, cyclist warning and adaptive cruise control as standard on the trim you mentioned whereas BMW does not have any of those. So in that regard Audi seems to win coming from a BMW owner myself

[LarryMarcia]

They both have good safety tech, but true - Audi has more features.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by TakeshiJin

No, Simply no it's not a good sound system at all in the A5 sport back! As someone who has driven and tested the Bang & Olufsen system in all three Audi cars A4 : A5 Coupe , & A5 Sport back ; I can guarantee that the A5 Sportback is the worst muffled system B&O system ever. They put the subwoofer under a trunk mat so the bass is distorted and muffled like it's going through some dam paper cones. The tuning never happened for the A5 Sportback and it sounds like a hallowed one way cave.

• A4 > A5 Coupe >> fill in as many Bose systems as possible > A5 Sportback is how bad the B&O in that car is.

I've owned both and the B&O sounds way better than the HK. Not even comparable. What are you comparing it to?

[LarryMarcia]

100 % agree!!
The Audi BO is far better than the BMW HK.
No comparison.

To me, they were not even close, the BO sounded worlds better. I personally gave up on reading suggestions about how to make the hk sound better, none work. I will say the hk is good for talk radio - podcasts , but for music it’s very very underwhelming in the 2023 3 series.

Still, we went with the BMW, mostly because of the linear performing engine, but someday soon I will rip out all the HK components and put in a high end audio system.

If I win 5 grand in my work March madness pool that should do it!

[DerekTriesG20]

Originally Posted by LarryMarcia

100 % agree!!
The Audi BO is far better than the BMW HK.
No comparison.

To me, they were not even close, the BO sounded worlds better. I personally gave up on reading suggestions about how to make the hk sound better, none work. I will say the hk is good for talk radio - podcasts , but for music it’s very very underwhelming in the 2023 3 series.

Still, we went with the BMW, mostly because of the linear performing engine, but someday soon I will rip out all the HK components and put in a high end audio system.

If I win 5 grand in my work March madness pool that should do it!

Wait so even the B&W sound profile activation via Bimmercode didn't help at all?

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by DerekTriesG20

Wait so even the B&W sound profile activation via Bimmercode didn't help at all?

It helps a bit but still doesn't get it close to the B&O in the Audi. Not to mention you can repin the B&O sub and it will sound even better. I've owned a lot in this segment, and it's definitely at the top (that's not saying it's the best of all car/suv audio systems, just in this segment). When I got my M340i the HK sound was literally one of the only things I disliked about an otherwise amazing car.

[TakeshiJin]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

I've owned both and the B&O sounds way better than the HK. Not even comparable. What are you comparing it to?

Did you read the full post?

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by TakeshiJin

Did you read the full post?

Yes I did. What's your point? You made a general (wrong) comment about the B&O that you "tested" in all three models of A4/A5 but this thread is talking about the A4 vs the G20, so I asked what were you comparing? We don't need to be cryptic here, just explain...

[TheFatArmadillo]

Originally Posted by LarryMarcia

100 % agree!!
The Audi BO is far better than the BMW HK.
No comparison.

I see you continuing to post this. I found the exact opposite. Drove an S4 for years with the B&O. It was unimpressive.

While the LCI H&K isn’t going to win any competitions, I’ve found it to be about 20% better than the B&O it replaced.