[madpistol]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

The poll, even on a BMW site, suggests more people prefer the IS grill (for what it's worth).

Lexus massaged “the grille” for 2022 IS, and it looks better IMO. The best view of this car is from behind the wheel, because the V8 model has a hood bulge not present in the V6 models. Gives it a muscle car vibe.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

The poll, even on a BMW site, suggests more people prefer the IS grill (for what it's worth).

It may be possible that IS owners are the ones who vote for the IS grille on a BMW site.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

It may be possible that IS owners are the ones who vote for the IS grille on a BMW site.

I doubt it lol but okay

[zoso4534]

This guy is getting way too much hate.

[madpistol]

Originally Posted by zoso4534

This guy is getting way too much hate.

I kind of expected it, honestly. BMW (and other German car) owners tend to view Lexus as “pseudo luxury” and don’t really take them seriously. Lexus/Toyota has a different approach to cars than the German brands. It’s basically “Let everyone else discover the shortcomings of certain tech so that we can learn from it.” That’s the reason Lexus/Toyota is known for their legendary reliability, but not for their technology; they are always one step behind other manufacturers. It is what it is, but I don’t understand why many BMW owners feel the need to constantly bash other manufacturers. When push comes to shove, BMW will not take care of you. They only want your money, just like every other manufacturer. I simply do not understand the blind allegiance to the brand.

[EXE46]

Originally Posted by zoso4534

This guy is getting way too much hate.

Shameful since they are stooping to the level of the CL fanboys. The IS500 is a good car, styling is subjective but it is coherent for the car, whereas I can't say the same for the 4'er. I would definitely own one as a second car. The lad who mentioned this as a great car to buy second-hand is correct.

I do miss NA engines of old and never owned a V8 so it's a bucket list item. This V8 will outlast the car. I once owned a 3IS with the 2.0T but was disappointed with the performance. If this car had debuted in Summer of 2019, I most likely would not have returned to BMW.


PS. The ultimate driving machine is a fallacy today. As an enthusiast we should appreciate and understand that there are many good cars out there aside from what we own.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by madpistol

I kind of expected it, honestly. BMW (and other German car) owners tend to view Lexus as “pseudo luxury” and don’t really take them seriously. Lexus/Toyota has a different approach to cars than the German brands. It’s basically “Let everyone else discover the shortcomings of certain tech so that we can learn from it.” That’s the reason Lexus/Toyota is known for their legendary reliability, but not for their technology; they are always one step behind other manufacturers. It is what it is, but I don’t understand why many BMW owners feel the need to constantly bash other manufacturers. When push comes to shove, BMW will not take care of you. They only want your money, just like every other manufacturer. I simply do not understand the blind allegiance to the brand.

I do read posters of this thread discussing Lexus vs. BMW without much bashing.

What posters do question is your thought process/social experiment of feeling belittled on a generic buying scenario as described in post#1.

[Rawhide]

Originally Posted by madpistol

I kind of expected it, honestly. BMW (and other German car) owners tend to view Lexus as “pseudo luxury” and don’t really take them seriously. Lexus/Toyota has a different approach to cars than the German brands. It’s basically “Let everyone else discover the shortcomings of certain tech so that we can learn from it.” That’s the reason Lexus/Toyota is known for their legendary reliability, but not for their technology; they are always one step behind other manufacturers. It is what it is, but I don’t understand why many BMW owners feel the need to constantly bash other manufacturers. When push comes to shove, BMW will not take care of you. They only want your money, just like every other manufacturer. I simply do not understand the blind allegiance to the brand.

>>Complains about getting hate.
>>Hates on BMW owners.

People on a BMW forum prefer them over Lexus. Wow what a shocker.
BMW gets a lot of bashing from other brand owners, so to suggest it's some kind of inherent flaw in German car owners is objectively false. I can post links to BMW hate threads all day.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by EXE46

Shameful since they are stooping to the level of the CL fanboys. The IS500 is a good car, styling is subjective but it is coherent for the car, whereas I can't say the same for the 4'er. I would definitely own one as a second car. The lad who mentioned this as a great car to buy second-hand is correct.

I do miss NA engines of old and never owned a V8 so it's a bucket list item. This V8 will outlast the car. I once owned a 3IS with the 2.0T but was disappointed with the performance. If this car had debuted in Summer of 2019, I most likely would not have returned to BMW.

Yeah I haven't driven a V8 since the E39 540i and M5 days, the V8 NA low-end grunt is memorable.

At one point I did consider a Chevy SS but it felt a bit old school given the world has since moved on to the new-age turbo with I4/I6.

[zoso4534]

I used to have an Audi S5 with a V8. Great car. I don’t like all these turbo charged engines.

[blue_seather]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

The poll, even on a BMW site, suggests more people prefer the IS grill (for what it's worth).

Because the image displays a coupe with a chrome grill. The GC with an M Sport package blacked-out grill is 10 times better.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by blue_seather

Because the image displays a coupe with a chrome grill. The GC with an M Sport package blacked-out grill is 10 times better.

OK...

[Rawhide]

Originally Posted by madpistol

Where did I hate on BMW?

I said BMW owners.
You have been waxing on and on about BMW owners this, and German car owners that throughout this entire thread.
At this point I'm pretty sure it's just a way to troll the forum on your way out.

[Rawhide]

Originally Posted by madpistol

That’s not hating on BMW. A lot of its owners are complete douche nozzles. Please feel free to tell me I’m wrong…

Again. I said you were hating on BMW owners NOT BMW itself. Apparently that needed to re-iterated yet a second time.

And you've proven my point by again hating on BMW owners on a BMW forum while somehow painting yourself as the poor victim. Crying out while you punch. Whatever dude, go away already.

I'm done posting on this thread and would offer a word of caution to the other posters about indulging this guy any further on his tales and entitlement complex.

[madpistol]

Originally Posted by Rawhide

Again. I said you were hating on BMW owners NOT BMW itself. Apparently that needed to re-iterated yet a second time.

And you've proven my point by again hating on BMW owners on a BMW forum while somehow painting yourself as the poor victim. Crying out while you punch. Whatever dude, go away already.

I'm done posting on this thread and would offer a word of caution to the other posters about indulging this guy any further on his tales and entitlement complex.

I owe you an apology. I was in a rush and I misread your post. Sorry about that.

[toddwalton]

Originally Posted by Rawhide

I said BMW owners.
You have been waxing on and on about BMW owners this, and German car owners that throughout this entire thread.
At this point I'm pretty sure it's just a way to troll the forum on your way out.

But he's Blue Vector Man! Sworn allegiance to Toyota, Champion of the Appearance Package! He can do no wrong! His intentions are always pure!

[zoso4534]

I grew up with online forums. I used to be a frequent reader and poster on this site which offered emotional support for those dating and trying to find a soulmate and also those with mental health issues. Of all places, the amount of online bullying I dealt with and saw others deal with was out of this world. Why would you come to an emotional support site and start bullying people? Eventually, I couldn't take the bullying I faced anymore and had to leave for my own sanity.

Where am I going with this? People bully online because it's easier when you are behind a screen and keyboard. I feel like there's some bullying going on here. In order to afford a car costing $30K+, we are likely at least 30 years old. Let's please act like adults and treat each other with respect.

[Sushimaster]

Everything on that lexus is outdated, even the engine. Not hating, couldnt careless if you say am a snobby bmw driver like you previously mentioned most bmw drivers are like that. Just spitting facts.

[zoso4534]

Originally Posted by Sushimaster

Everything on that lexus is outdated, even the engine. Not hating, couldnt careless if you say am a snobby bmw driver like you previously mentioned most bmw drivers are like that. Just spitting facts.

Isn't that part of their product strategy? Leverage tried and true technology to ensure reliability? This is why Lexus is usually at the top of reliability lists.

[madpistol]

Originally Posted by zoso4534

Isn't that part of their product strategy? Leverage tried and true technology to ensure reliability? This is why Lexus is usually at the top of reliability lists.

Yep. You've got companies like Mercedes and Tesla who are always trying to push the bounds of what is actually possible in car tech, but they consistently score at the lower end of reliability charts. Then you have Lexus/Toyota who is constantly a step or two behind the rest of the industry, but are always at the top of reliability charts. BMW is traditionally at the mid-high end of reliability, which is good... until it breaks. Then, it's expensive.

Originally Posted by zoso4534

Where am I going with this? People bully online because it's easier when you are behind a screen and keyboard. I feel like there's some bullying going on here. In order to afford a car costing $30K+, we are likely at least 30 years old. Let's please act like adults and treat each other with respect.

Thank you.

[Davg31]

Originally Posted by zoso4534

This guy is getting way too much hate.

Maybe it's because of his quote "most BMW owners are jerk that love patting themselves on the back. In fact, most German brand owners are like that".

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by madpistol

I wasn't seeking pity. I knew I was going to get a mix of "You're a Karen" and "Yea, that sucks dude. Sorry that happened." Honestly, this was a bit of an experiment to see what percentage of owners here are genuinely decent people, and which ones are your stereotypical BMW jerks.

Pretty decent mix actually. Most people take the salesman's side, which again doesn't surprise me. It just confirms exactly what I thought; most BMW owners are jerks that love patting themselves on the back. Actually, most German brand owners are like that. I have no idea why, but they are, but BMW owners (specifically, M3/M4 owners) tend to be the worst. I've always approached topics here from a "BMW makes great products" standpoint, but never belittled anyone. Funny enough, I get belittled by a salesman, and suddenly, it's my fault. It's so predictable, it's kind of funny actually.

As the second part of this little experiement, I posted some pics of my new car over on the r/Lexus subreddit, and you know what... it got 100% positive feedback on the posts. Yet, the one time I posted my M440i GC on the r/BMW subreddit, and it got a mix of "nice car" and "god I hate that grill". It's odd how the r/BMW subreddit is somewhat hostile, while the r/Lexus subreddit is overwhelmingly inviting and positive.

Just so no one thinks I'm patting myself on the back, here's the reddit post. I look forward to hearing people explain this one away...

I don’t think people were siding with the salesman nearly as much as they were reacting to your illogical and over-the-top reaction to the situation. There’s really no denying you pulled a pretty “karen” move. No particular judgement here, but you obviously have money to burn. Even if I had been as pissed as you apparently were, financially I couldn’t have done what you did. Admittedly, even if I could have I wouldn’t have. I just can’t stomach throwing money away like that.

Regarding the grill and the attitude of BMW fanboys vs Lexus fanboys. BMW chose to depart from what is probably their single most iconic design feature and the reaction from the longtime faithful was less than accepting. Lexus went with their hideous grill design a decade or more ago so those folks on the Lexus forums have accepted (and probably embraced) that long ago. It certainly didn’t go over well with the BMW crowd. Maybe you remember the many wide fish mouth memes that followed the introduction of the humongous Lexus grill. Maybe not.

I have long said about BMW and Mercedes, BMW fans tend to be folks who like to do things for themselves and Mercedes fans tend to be folks who like to have things done for them. I think the same pretty much applies to Lexus fans. BMW owners just tend to be much more into their car’s performance and driving experience than pretty much any other “non-exotic” brand (I’m including Porsche in that category). All you have to do is look at the size of the BMW CCA. It is by far the largest single marquee car club in the world.

btw - little side note regarding Lexus and Mercedes Benz. When Lexus first went into business BMW wasn’t who they emulated and whose customers they targeted. It was Mercedes Benz.

Both of these memes came from a Lexus forum: