[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by madpistol

I kind of expected it, honestly. BMW (and other German car) owners tend to view Lexus as “pseudo luxury” and don’t really take them seriously. Lexus/Toyota has a different approach to cars than the German brands. It’s basically “Let everyone else discover the shortcomings of certain tech so that we can learn from it.” That’s the reason Lexus/Toyota is known for their legendary reliability, but not for their technology; they are always one step behind other manufacturers. It is what it is, but I don’t understand why many BMW owners feel the need to constantly bash other manufacturers. When push comes to shove, BMW will not take care of you. They only want your money, just like every other manufacturer. I simply do not understand the blind allegiance to the brand.

You are pretty much spot on regarding the Japanese and technology. First off, for those who are prone to get their panties in a wad, this is not a bash on the Japanese. It’s just the way it is. Typically the Japanese do take established technology and reverse engineer the heck out of it and make it better than pretty much everyone else. And that’s exactly what they did with Lexus. The difference you refer to with German car people not taking Lexus seriously is because Lexus didn’t set out to build a “driver’s car” from their inception. They set out to build a “European-ish” luxury car that didn’t have the reliability foibles of the more “automotively” innovative European manufacturers. And they succeeded. But they definitely did not build a driver’s car.

Then, about a decade ago, the Germans had begun catching up with their reliability and people were starting to realize that in spite of their great reliability Lexuses were pretty boring to drive. So, in order not to lose their market share, Lexus decided they needed to try to inject some driving engagement into their cars. Since then they have met with mediocre success and, since they are playing catch up in this arena and they are only marginally committed to it, they have yet to match the Germans. After all, the Germans have been building cars specifically engineered for Autobahn driving from the very beginning.

You were with BMW for a little less than three years and you’ve been on the forum since then. No disrespect intended, but you’re not exactly the definition of a BMW enthusiast. You had one bad experience with a particular salesman and dealership and you took your ball and went home. And you state, “BMW will not take care of you. They only want your money…”. I promise you over the years I have seen many examples of BMW step up and take care of their customers. Both BMW corporate and BMW dealers. Sometimes they do it really quickly and sometimes there has to be some time and some gnashing of teeth. I’ve also seen them both screw people over. If you think Lexus and Lexus dealers are substantially different you are kidding yourself.

[MisanoblueZ4]

This is a crap ton of drama over being outbid by a more serious buyer.

Did the OP leave a deposit? No

Sales guy maybe should have sent a “sorry, car was just sold” text.

In any case hope the OP enjoys the IS500.

I’m new to BMW but have been treated better then any previous brand during and after sale, worked with my salesperson for a couple weeks before pulling trigger on a Z4 M40i, which I could have lost out on at any point if someone came with $$ before I did.

[RCtennis3811]

The IS500 is a phenomenal car. Different strokes for different folks is all it is. The V8 may sound better, hit my M340i xDrive is faster and gets significantly better gas mileage. The Lexus will probably last longer, but I also do high mileage leases because I want newer tech every few years (personal preference). You do you man.

[Vinnief96]

This made me laugh

[Dan B]

Originally Posted by madpistol

I wasn't seeking pity. I knew I was going to get a mix of "You're a Karen" and "Yea, that sucks dude. Sorry that happened." Honestly, this was a bit of an experiment to see what percentage of owners here are genuinely decent people, and which ones are your stereotypical BMW jerks.

You do realize this is the internet and it does not matter what car, or any other, forum you post on. You will get the same distribution of posts.

[DenHaag3er]

3rd generation IS dates from 2013. That is some downgrade because your feelings were hurt.

[RT1250Ryder]

Originally Posted by bavarianride

At one point I did consider a Chevy SS but it felt a bit old school given the world has since moved on to the new-age turbo with I4/I6.

I have a Chevy SS and as tough as it is for me to admit, my m340i is faster in a straight line but that old school V8 paired with a manual is intoxicating and I can certainty see the appeal. I'm not mad at the OP for his choice. I say enjoy it while you can until the driving is done for us. The blind loyalty or rage to a particular manufacturer however, is something I don't understand. I was a Honda/Acura guy before I was BMW dude and a Mopar man before that. I guess I just like cars and won't "die on a hill" for any brand.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by RT1250Ryder

I have a Chevy SS and as tough as it is for me to admit, my m340i is faster in a straight line but that old school V8 paired with a manual is intoxicating and I can certainty see the appeal. I'm not mad at the OP for his choice. I say enjoy it while you can until the driving is done for us. The blind loyalty or rage to a particular manufacturer however, is something I don't understand. I was a Honda/Acura guy before I was BMW dude and a Mopar man before that. I guess I just like cars and won't "die on a hill" for any brand.

Yes a SS V8 NA 6MT is as close as it gets to those BMW E39 V8 NA's.

BTW OP swapped the IS500 V8 back to his previous M340i.

[arentz07]

Originally Posted by DenHaag3er

3rd generation IS dates from 2013. That is some downgrade because your feelings were hurt.

As an IS 500 owner, I'll just say... a lot of people sleep on this car. Is the G20 a "better car"? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean it is better for everyone.

Also, you may want to read madpistol's newer thread: https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...4#post30836964

[G20agba]

Originally Posted by toddwalton

Buying a Lexus is a strange way to exact revenge on a BMW dealer. I mean, a Lexus?

Actually if you compare lexus and BMW, lexus is more expensive than a BMW. I was shocked too when i found out. But for me, i think BMW has better looking cars than lexus. Although reliability for lexus is way more superior than BMW.

[arentz07]

Originally Posted by G20agba

Actually if you compare lexus and BMW, lexus is more expensive than a BMW. I was shocked too when i found out. But for me, i think BMW has better looking cars than lexus. Although reliability for lexus is way more superior than BMW.

Better... looking? I mean, come on. (See attached photo.) The Infrared paint color alone is hot.

And for the record, a fully-loaded M340i or M440i is more expensive than an IS 500 fully-loaded... I just built an M440i on the configurator that came to $72,000 USD and didn't even have every option. But the lease payment will probably be lower, dollar-for-dollar, on a BMW. Hmm...

To bring it back to the original topic, OP has gone back to his M440i. He basically revenge-bought the IS 500, so clearly, his criteria were not the same as they would have been under normal circumstances. However, the IS 500 is not a bad car. In fact, I think it's more of a niche car. It's not the perfectly modern and techy daily driver that an M440i/M340i would be, but it's got a cooler engine. Yeah, I said it. The 2UR-GSE is cooler than the B58. Why? Well, it's basically a hand-me-down from an F car. It has more peak horsepower and revs higher. And, it's one of the only naturally-aspirated V-8s on sale in something that's not a truck these days. And, you could argue the Lexus reliability is worth something. I've owned three, and they've all been fantastic to live with. Very few issues. So, to each their own - it depends on what matters most to you about car ownership. I am personally going through somewhat of a phase where I am flirting with the idea of getting an M240i or M440i - something about coupes is tempting... But I struggle with the idea of losing my IS 500. I could go RC F, but in that case, I feel it's not worth changing. I have 90% of the experience of driving that car with mine (and yes, I've driven one and realize the suspension and braking are a lot shaper on that car). Alas.

[toddwalton]

Originally Posted by G20agba

Actually if you compare lexus and BMW, lexus is more expensive than a BMW. I was shocked too when i found out. But for me, i think BMW has better looking cars than lexus. Although reliability for lexus is way more superior than BMW.

There is no comparison. Lexus? Yuck.

[Gamb1t]

I root for any mfg that puts their best effort forward in this bloodfest genre. Go Cadillac Blackwings! BMW has had its misfires but it's hard to topple the King of the Hill. Lexus cars like the Infiniti and Acura brands seem to produce good but forgettable vehicles. Is it because they lack soul? I think their one hit wonders were IS300 and G35...and of course the Integra Type R.

Years down the road, I am not sure automotive memoirs will vax lyrical to the IS500 or Q60t Red apart from being a "good try" footnote. But you can bet there will be journals upon journals on the BMW M3. Sorry just sayin'....

[arentz07]

Originally Posted by toddwalton

There is no comparison. Lexus? Yuck.

Originally Posted by Gamb1t

I root for any mfg that puts their best effort forward in this bloodfest genre. Go Cadillac Blackwings! BMW has had its misfires but it's hard to topple the King of the Hill. Lexus cars like the Infiniti and Acura brands seem to produce good but forgettable vehicles. Is it because they lack soul? I think their one hit wonders were IS300 and G35...and of course the Integra Type R.

Years down the road, I am not sure automotive memoirs will vax lyrical to the IS500 or Q60t Red apart from being a "good try" footnote. But you can bet there will be journals upon journals on the BMW M3. Sorry just sayin'....

Again with comparing M cars to the IS 500, which costs tens of thousands less than your average M3. The IS 500 is more closely aligned with the M340i when it comes to pricing and its overall mission.

... is what I would say, along with a lot of other statements, such as referring you to YouTube videos where journalists have waxed lyrical about the IS 500, in a futile attempt to try and convince you that it is somehow a rational car to purchase while also being legendary to drive. It simply isn't. The only traits of the IS 500 I can really hang my hat on are its use of physical buttons instead of jamming everything into a screen along with its Lexus reliability. But there is something intangible about this car - if you get it, you get it. If you don't, then there's nothing anyone can do to change that.

I recently posted an Instagram reel of me just accelerating quickly in my IS 500, and you wouldn't believe the number of users who stopped by just to say two words: "slow poop" (obviously paraphrasing). No context, just that it was not only slow but also poo. There were a few others saying things like "overpriced Toyota", too. This was my most-commented reel ever, mostly due to the, let's call them, constructive criticisms. Not of me or my video, of the car itself.

I responded in kind to one such commenter by saying, "Yeah, my Civic is faster."

As you can tell, I am used to people either hating on or just underestimating the car by now. It's a part of owning the car. I think you have to be a Toyota/Lexus fan to really appreciate this car, and that is fine by me. I bought this car for me, not for the approval of anyone else or to make a statement about something.

And for what it is worth, for me, there is something emotional about the driving experience of the IS 500. It has a great ride while still being able to carve up some back roads, and even when driven slowly, the V-8 rumble is always there. No artificial sound, either - just actual intake and exhaust. (Yes, I am aware ASC exists, but I disabled mine on day 1 since this car does not need it.) And the way the power builds throughout the rev band while the V-8 grows louder, with its mechanical roar, feels very satisfying - plus, there is no turbo lag. But these are all subjective things you can't put in a spreadsheet. But why buy a sporty daily driver if those subjective aspects don't hit the mark? Isn't the point to enjoy driving it? Are we wrong for having... preferences? Lots of car buyers like myself prefer a V-8.

[toddwalton]

Originally Posted by arentz07

Again with comparing M cars to the IS 500, which costs tens of thousands less...

My comment had nothing to do with performance. It is about the brand (yuck) and the styling (yuck).

[LostInSpace]

Also, it's a chick car.

[NGT2]

Originally Posted by LostInSpace

Also, it's a chick car.

In fairness, when I was in college at Ole Miss the female dorm and sorority house parking lots were full of 3 series BMWs.

I like the M340. Recently considered ordering one. Just sayin.

I can’t imagine the IS is as fun or sporty of a drive as the 3 series. I’m sure it’s more comfortable and “rides better”. There’s a reason I didn’t buy a Lexus. They’re reliable and hold value and “ride good”. But they’re not very fun. But I don’t think that’s their thing. I’ve owned two. Loved our RX. Replaced our 2022 GX after one year with a CPO 2021 X7 40i.

I was thinking about trading my 2020 M550. That’s when I considered the M340. Also considered the IS500 because it’s similar price range to M340 and has the V8. But aside from sounding cool and being a V8, it doesn’t offer anything over and above the B58 performance in the M340. And it’s underpowered compared to the V8 in my M550. So I quickly stopped considering it.

[madpistol]

Originally Posted by LostInSpace

Also, it's a chick car.

IS 500 is a chick car?

[j luke]

Originally Posted by Montaver

Unless you have a deposit on the car, it isn't yours. There are multiple sales people at a dealership, one sales person cant stop another person selling the car because they are working up some numbers. Sales people sit there working numbers for people that don't buy cars all day. Sounds like a somewhat irrational purchase to me, but I hope you enjoy it.

This

[toddwalton]

Originally Posted by madpistol

IS 500 is a chick car?

Every Lexus is. You are lucky you escaped, MP.

[arentz07]

Originally Posted by NGT2

In fairness, when I was in college at Ole Miss the female dorm and sorority house parking lots were full of 3 series BMWs.

I like the M340. Recently considered ordering one. Just sayin.

I can’t imagine the IS is as fun or sporty of a drive as the 3 series. I’m sure it’s more comfortable and “rides better”. There’s a reason I didn’t buy a Lexus. They’re reliable and hold value and “ride good”. But they’re not very fun. But I don’t think that’s their thing. I’ve owned two. Loved our RX. Replaced our 2022 GX after one year with a CPO 2021 X7 40i.

I was thinking about trading my 2020 M550. That’s when I considered the M340. Also considered the IS500 because it’s similar price range to M340 and has the V8. But aside from sounding cool and being a V8, it doesn’t offer anything over and above the B58 performance in the M340. And it’s underpowered compared to the V8 in my M550. So I quickly stopped considering it.

I have a friend who has been a longtime BMW owner who drove my IS 500. He said it felt more like a "smaller 5-series" as compared to a 3-series in terms of the chassis. I've also driven a 530i recently as a loaner car from the dealership, and I'd say he was pretty much spot on with that comparison. While the 5er is quieter, the overall dynamics of the car - the amount of body roll and the kind of turn-in response you get - are pretty darned similar. So if you have never driven an IS 500, that might be a good way to set expectations.

Also, with respect to power compared to the M550i. The IS 500 probably actually has a very similar power-to-weight. So while 0-60 would favor the M550i, in a theoretical Autobahn run, it would be a pretty close call.

But I've always said BMW people are not Lexus people. This whole thread pretty much sums up why. Lexus people appreciate a consistent, comfortable driving experience more than the modern conveniences and drivetrains offered by BMW. But that doesn't make Lexus cars "chick" cars. Shoot, I'd say your average 3-series driver in my area is a 30-something woman lol. And BMW drivers just outright being elitist is honestly starting to make me want one a little less.

[koopa]

Too many brand snobs in here. Lexus is a chick car? So is BMW a brand for women since they primarily make SUVs?

The IS500 isn't a bad car, it's just not really a comparable experience. OP said the biggest problem with the car is that they drove the M440i first. The real issue is knowing exactly what you want from the car. If you are cross shopping something like an M3/M4, then to me it doesn't make any sense to move to something like the IS500. I know Lexus markets it as a sports sedan, but to me it's definitely a GT executive car (like a 540i or M550i). The biggest appeal of the IS500 to someone who hasn't driven one yet is the V8 and I get that as a former owner of a Chevy SS, but there's more to the overall experience than V8 noises.

A real upgrade to the M340i/M440i would be an M3/M4 or a CT4-V Blackwing. Moving to something like an IS500 or even an M550i and you're basically changing segments and exchanging driving dynamics for comfort and noise isolation (and V8). That's not a bad thing if that's what you want, but it's just not comparable at that point imo.