[edycol]

Originally Posted by prostcfc

cleanflow just use a 0W-20 or 0W-30 oil with the correct BMW cert. Your manual specifically says both weights are fine. I've heard anecdotally that even dealers have used 0W-30, but who knows. Not sure how a dealer would evaluate your oil weight if there was an issue; hell, they could give you a headache for not allowing BMW to change it.

Again, it is not about weight, but HTHS. That is only thing that matters when it comes to oil viscosity and protection (besides additives).
LL01 and LL04 oils are having minimum HTHS of 3.5. LL01FE, LL12FE, LL14FE and LL17FE are all energe conserving oils with HTHS below 3.49, and in case of LL17FE, below 2.9cp.

That being said, since BMW is always very confusing, but it does allow 0W30 grade without emhpasis on approval (and 0W30 could be LL01FE or LL01 and LL04 as HTHS is what approvals are based on, not grade) I would use this oil:
https://www.amazon.com/Castrol-06244...s%2C135&sr=8-3

Or this oil if one wants something similar in additives to LL17FE:
https://new.motul.com/en-US/products...N%2B+EFE+0W-30

Whatever one does, SHOULD NOT choose API SP ILSAC GF-6 0W30 like Mobil1 0W30 AFE.

[prostcfc]

cleanflow here's another thread to bookmark and peruse: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/th...dation.337089/

[cleanflow]

Originally Posted by edycol

Again, it is not about weight, but HTHS. That is only thing that matters when it comes to oil viscosity and protection (besides additives).
LL01 and LL04 oils are having minimum HTHS of 3.5. LL01FE, LL12FE, LL14FE and LL17FE are all energe conserving oils with HTHS below 3.49, and in case of LL17FE, below 2.9cp.

That being said, since BMW is always very confusing, but it does allow 0W30 grade without emhpasis on approval (and 0W30 could be LL01FE or LL01 and LL04 as HTHS is what approvals are based on, not grade) I would use this oil:
https://www.amazon.com/Castrol-06244...s%2C135&sr=8-3

Or this oil if one wants something similar in additives to LL17FE:
https://new.motul.com/en-US/products...N%2B+EFE+0W-30

Whatever one does, SHOULD NOT choose API SP ILSAC GF-6 0W30 like Mobil1 0W30 AFE.

Interesting product description for the Castrol...

[prostcfc]

Originally Posted by cleanflow

Interesting product description for the Castrol...

That Castrol is available from Walmart online as well. There is a new formulation of it that is LL-01 certified (and LL-01FE "suitable for use"); if you look on Castrol's website that's what you'll see. However seems like both Amazon and Walmart are shipping the old stock out first, which isn't LL-01 certified. Looks like a couple have reached out to BP and confirmed that old and new have different formulations as well, and it's not just a different bottle. So if that matters to you, be aware.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by prostcfc

That Castrol is available from Walmart online as well. There is a new formulation of it that is LL-01 certified (and LL-01FE "suitable for use"); if you look on Castrol's website that's what you'll see. However seems like both Amazon and Walmart are shipping the old stock out first, which isn't LL-01 certified. Looks like a couple have reached out to BP and confirmed that old and new have different formulations as well, and it's not just a different bottle. So if that matters to you, be aware.

The difference is minuscule. The additive pack, as well as the base stock, is very similar to the old formulation.
If I had B46/48/58, I would not hesitate to use any of 0W30 formulations.
Base stock is still around 50%n PAO, as the pour point indicates.
If one wants good LL01FE oil, Motul SPecific is way to go.
If one wants additive pack similar to LL17FE, but with higher HTHS, best bet is Motul X-Clean 0W30 EFE, and that is LL04 oil.

[AlexC2er]

Originally Posted by edycol

The difference is minuscule. The additive pack, as well as the base stock, is very similar to the old formulation.
If I had B46/48/58, I would not hesitate to use any of 0W30 formulations.
Base stock is still around 50%n PAO, as the pour point indicates.
If one wants good LL01FE oil, Motul SPecific is way to go.
If one wants additive pack similar to LL17FE, but with higher HTHS, best bet is Motul X-Clean 0W30 EFE, and that is LL04 oil.

Hi. What’s your opinion on ll01fe Motul specific vs ll01fe castrol 0w30 a3/b4? My manual only states ll17fe, even though I’m still in the warranty period I’m thinking I’m going to use one of those on my next oil change for best protection.

Edit: I have the B58

[edycol]

Originally Posted by AlexC2er

Hi. What’s your opinion on ll01fe Motul specific vs ll01fe castrol 0w30 a3/b4? My manual only states ll17fe, even though I’m still in the warranty period I’m thinking I’m going to use one of those on my next oil change for best protection.

Edit: I have the B58

I think both are excellent. Motul probably has bit of PAO base stock.
But, if you stray from whatever BMW is saying, go LL01 or LL04, forget FE.
If you want same additives, Low/Mid-SAPS oil, go LL04. Motul X-Clean 0W30 EFE is excellent oil with latest additive pack. Or you can just get Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5W30 in Wal mart for $26 for 5qt.
Another excellent choice would be Mobil1 ESP 5W30.

LL01? I prefer Castrol Edge 0W30 and think it is still best Euro oil. But any LL01 will do it: Mobil1 0W40, Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40, Castrol 0W40 etc...

[AlexC2er]

Originally Posted by edycol

I think both are excellent. Motul probably has bit of PAO base stock.
But, if you stray from whatever BMW is saying, go LL01 or LL04, forget FE.
If you want same additives, Low/Mid-SAPS oil, go LL04. Motul X-Clean 0W30 EFE is excellent oil with latest additive pack. Or you can just get Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5W30 in Wal mart for $26 for 5qt.
Another excellent choice would be Mobil1 ESP 5W30.

LL01? I prefer Castrol Edge 0W30 and think it is still best Euro oil. But any LL01 will do it: Mobil1 0W40, Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40, Castrol 0W40 etc...

I thought because the sulfur content in us gasoline ll04 is not suitable? Also, I’m worried about warranty being void if I use ll01. Ugh, they should list that as suitable as well as all the other suitable oil. This is all I see:

[edycol]

Originally Posted by AlexC2er

I thought because the sulfur content in us gasoline ll04 is not suitable? Also, I’m worried about warranty being void if I use ll01. Ugh, they should list that as suitable as well as all the other suitable oil. This is all I see:

First of all, welcome to the world of BMW oil recommendations, where nothing makes sense.

BMW wants you to use LL17FE+. OK, duly noted. They wanted you to use bcs. they need EPA to bump their average mpg to meet CAFE.
LL17FE+ is low-SAPS oil. What does that mean? SAPS is SUlfated Ash and Phosphorus. It is byproduct. It is what clogs DPF/GPF; it is what is on the intake valve (CBU or IVD, however, you wanna call it). Low SAPS oils are oils that have SAPS below 0.8%. Those oils extend life of DPF or GPF. Full SAPS oils have SAPS above 1%.
LL01: Full SAPS
LL01FE: Full SAPS
LL04: Low/Mid-SAPS
LL17FE: Low/Mid SAPS.

NOW, BMW wants you to use LL17FE, but in the absence of that, LL01FE. It is absolutely insane. But, it is BMW< their oil recommendations very often don't make any sense.
So, if you want a more robust version of LL17FE, go LL04. You could also go LL01 if car does not have GPF.

As for gas, since 01/2017 US has Ultra Low Sulfur Gas (ULSG).

[AlexC2er]

Originally Posted by edycol

First of all, welcome to the world of BMW oil recommendations, where nothing makes sense.

BMW wants you to use LL17FE+. OK, duly noted. They wanted you to use bcs. they need EPA to bump their average mpg to meet CAFE.
LL17FE+ is low-SAPS oil. What does that mean? SAPS is SUlfated Ash and Phosphorus. It is byproduct. It is what clogs DPF/GPF; it is what is on the intake valve (CBU or IVD, however, you wanna call it). Low SAPS oils are oils that have SAPS below 0.8%. Those oils extend life of DPF or GPF. Full SAPS oils have SAPS above 1%.
LL01: Full SAPS
LL01FE: Full SAPS
LL04: Low/Mid-SAPS
LL17FE: Low/Mid SAPS.

NOW, BMW wants you to use LL17FE, but in the absence of that, LL01FE. It is absolutely insane. But, it is BMW< their oil recommendations very often don't make any sense.
So, if you want a more robust version of LL17FE, go LL04. You could also go LL01 if car does not have GPF.

As for gas, since 01/2017 US has Ultra Low Sulfur Gas (ULSG).

Great info! I assume all US spec cars has no GPF?

[edycol]

Originally Posted by AlexC2er

Great info! I assume all US spec cars has no GPF?

I think so.

[prostcfc]

Here's my Blackstone report with Motul Specific 5W-30. 2 HPDEs and lots of very short trips (<1 mile). This was a one and done for me given the calcium content. cc edycol

Previous oil changes have been at the 1 year mark.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by prostcfc

Here's my Blackstone report with Motul Specific 5W-30. 2 HPDEs and lots of very short trips (<1 mile). This was a one and done for me given the calcium content. cc edycol

Previous oil changes have been at the 1 year mark.

Don't worry about calcium if ZDDP is high. ZDDP is more efficient in preventing LSPI than lower calcium.
That being said, I would go 5W40 Motul.

[digitalatlas]

I'm in the Toronto, Canada area and it gets to about -20 deg C on winter nights, though not as cold as some Canadian provinces out west.

I got a CPO 330ix that came with a year of powertrain warranty, so I'm likely to stick with the 0w20 LL17FE+ that I saw on the car's history for the time being, but only to maintain the warranty coverage. But after that, I'll want LL04 or LL01 oil.

From all the reading I've been doing, I'm still leaning towards an 0W30. It sounds like 5W30 is suitable and there's only a difference of 5 deg. C in cold crank testing, but I'm concerned about the cold winters. I'll drive a little spirited occasionally, but no track and mostly commuting.

Pennzoil Plat Euro looked good, it's only in 5W30. Though this seems to be from Shell, which BMW recommended in the manual. Motul 8100 X Clean is also only in 5W30 in my parts, I can't seem to fine 0W30 even though Motul seems to make it because it's on their website.

My mechanic of many years, who is a BMW enthusiast himself and has had various Bimmers is very pro LiquiMoly. edycol seems to think it's pretty middling.

I was looking at the LM websites, and the LM Top Tec 4210 SAE 0W-30 (https://www.liqui-moly.com/en/ca/top...106.html#22158) seems to be LL04 approved, and has an HTHS >3.5. Isn't this pretty decent? Although I think I read somewhere that 0W30 oils are not LL04 approved, only 5W30 is...and this might be some shady advertising from LM???

My manual looks the same as cleanflow. I'm still a little undecided on what's the best option to go with, even though I feel like the recommendation is don't worry about the viscosity...anyone want to push me one way or another?

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by digitalatlas

I'm in the Toronto, Canada area and it gets to about -20 deg C on winter nights, though not as cold as some Canadian provinces out west.

I got a CPO 330ix that came with a year of powertrain warranty, so I'm likely to stick with the 0w20 LL17FE+ that I saw on the car's history for the time being, but only to maintain the warranty coverage. But after that, I'll want LL04 or LL01 oil.

From all the reading I've been doing, I'm still leaning towards an 0W30. It sounds like 5W30 is suitable and there's only a difference of 5 deg. C in cold crank testing, but I'm concerned about the cold winters. I'll drive a little spirited occasionally, but no track and mostly commuting.

Pennzoil Plat Euro looked good, it's only in 5W30. Though this seems to be from Shell, which BMW recommended in the manual. Motul 8100 X Clean is also only in 5W30 in my parts, I can't seem to fine 0W30 even though Motul seems to make it because it's on their website.

My mechanic of many years, who is a BMW enthusiast himself and has had various Bimmers is very pro LiquiMoly. edycol seems to think it's pretty middling.

I was looking at the LM websites, and the LM Top Tec 4210 SAE 0W-30 (https://www.liqui-moly.com/en/ca/top...06.html#22158) seems to be LL04 approved, and has an HTHS >3.5. Isn't this pretty decent? Although I think I read somewhere that 0W30 oils are not LL04 approved, only 5W30 is...and this might be some shady advertising from LM???

My manual looks the same as cleanflow. I'm still a little undecided on what's the best option to go with, even [...]

LM doesn't mess around with approvals. I would use the LL04 0w30 in Canada

[alFR]

Question for edycol if I may. Wanted to get some spare oil. Manual for my UK G21 M340i suggests one of:

BMW LL-12 FE
BMW LL-17 FE+
BMW LL-19 FE

in either SAE 0W-20 or SAE 0W-30. Didn't know what oil was in car from factory and wanted to get same if possible (seems common sense to top up with same if required), so went to the local BMW dealer and asked. They took my reg number, found the VIN, then put that into their service system which told them my car needed LL04, 0W-30. I queried that vs the manual recommendations, they said "what it says in the manual isn't what's in your car, this is what we would put in if we changed the oil here". So, I bought 1L of that but now I have literally no idea whether I actually have the right stuff or, if I do, why the manual apparently says the wrong thing. Any ideas?

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by alFR

Question for edycol if I may. Wanted to get some spare oil. Manual for my UK G21 M340i suggests one of:

BMW LL-12 FE
BMW LL-17 FE+
BMW LL-19 FE

in either SAE 0W-20 or SAE 0W-30. Didn't know what oil was in car from factory and wanted to get same if possible (seems common sense to top up with same if required), so went to the local BMW dealer and asked. They took my reg number, found the VIN, then put that into their service system which told them my car needed LL04, 0W-30. I queried that vs the manual recommendations, they said "what it says in the manual isn't what's in your car, this is what we would put in if we changed the oil here". So, I bought 1L of that but now I have literally no idea whether I actually have the right stuff or, if I do, why the manual apparently says the wrong thing. Any ideas?

LL19fe is really cool spec because it has the same HTHS as LL04 but provides better fuel efficiency. Typically to get better fuel efficiency you have to reduce HTHS which is what BMW has done with LL17fe, LL12fe.

Below is a nice little tool but it is NOT designed to compare oil certs of different automakers. (Ex 229.51 vs LL04).

https://online.lubrizol.com/relperftool/pc.html

Winter grade 0w vs 5w isn't relevant in the UK

[Fudz]

Does anyone know if it's required to prime the oil system after a change on a B58 - like it was on N55?

[jjg20]

Can a Canadian get some advice? I’m wanting to run a heavier weight for the sake of the bipolar weather we have in central Canada (+30C during the summer and -30 in the winter). I was planning to run Pennzoil Platinum Euro (NON L) 5W-40 (LL-01) in my 2020 M340 (NO WARRANTY). The previous owner was located in Quebec and I have spent the last 5-6 hours or so trying to figure out if my car has GPF’s or OPF’s to use this oil. Will be checking in on this thread regularly for replies!

[prostcfc]

Originally Posted by Fudz

Does anyone know if it's required to prime the oil system after a change on a B58 - like it was on N55?

I didn't think that was required for just an oil change, and was for changing the OFH, etc. Anyway, I haven't personally seen folks doing this with the B58, but I'm sure some do.

[Fudz]

Haven't seen a mention of it for B58 .