[floating.spirit]

Originally Posted by RedKloud

They couldn't make a video in landscape format?

Landscape is for old people. Cool, young people do portrait, like for mobile app based social media. BMW needs to market to the next generation of old people now. 😜

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by Nahlem

The narrow scope of vision for a lot of the users here makes them think they are a majority of who BMW is selling and making cars for.

Nobody said that. Who is narrow-minded now?

Originally Posted by Nahlem

You go out to the real world people are more positive in their view of BMW's recent changes in both terms of design and putting more R&D and investing money in to sustainability.

Every person that lives in my real world hates the new design. That includes few buddies that left the brand in just one year.
You are talking cheap talk. Show me one review of a reviewer that has some reputation in the field that praises the "changes in terms of design" Oh! I forgot..., those are not "your real world".

Originally Posted by Nahlem

... and people are like "The kink what?"

I presume that those are your people in your real world that love the new design...
This is an enthusiast forum. And an enthusiast is here because of the past and history of this brand, and because he/she experienced previous vehicles which included the design as well.

Originally Posted by Nahlem

Being a Zealot is a dangerous thing it narrows your mind to such an extent that any other views...

LOL, you made me laugh. Maybe an introspection will help you in seeing where the narrow-minded person sits...

Carry on...

[EMB-89]

Originally Posted by Encanto

Replacing the style of the Hofmeister kink to try the same window frame style like everyone else has to be a greater design stupidity than the grille. It just makes no business, no design, and no sense whatsoever.

Totally agree.

There's a "tick list" when designing a BMW:
1) Kidney grille
2) Twin headlights
3) Sickle line on the side
4) Hofmeister kink
5) L shaped taillights

Any deviation from this is just silly...

[Nahlem]

Originally Posted by Teutonic

Nobody said that. Who is narrow-minded now?

And yet people like you are speaking like you do know the best because why? Because it goes against your vision of how a design of a car should be? Because you sure do talk like you are a majority of BMW customers yet you have been proven wrong plenty of times.

Every person that lives in my real world hates the new design. That includes few buddies that left the brand in just one year.
You are talking cheap talk. Show me one review of a reviewer that has some reputation in the field that praises the "changes in terms of design" Oh! I forgot..., those are not "your real world".


I presume that those are your people in your real world that love the new design...
This is an enthusiast forum. And an enthusiast is here because of the past and history of this brand, and because he/she experienced previous vehicles which included the design as well.

Then you sure do must have a small world you live in, because plenty of people that apparently lives in my world likes the new design because it is a step away from what usually is BMWs design language witch is probably what they went for to sell more cars. Even if means losing some other ones. Reviewers talks what gets them the most viewers if it means for them to have the "right" opinion so they can sympathies with the "enthusiastic" people.

And this "The history" of the brand your view on this is narrow in that way that you are stuck on what it used to be and now that it has changed you cant cope with it properly. You talk like the history of the brand is of such high importance that it should dictate every future move of the brand. And clearly BMW has made a complete turn in what you and those in your world define what the brand should and shouldn't do.

And i am most certain if this design language causes them such disaster they will change it to something else, so they will be acting exactly as a company is expected to act, change in the direction where the money is heading.

So yeah my view from where i sit and see the brand for what it is and also see what the enthusiasts wants it to be, And this is what you keep forgetting it is a company an industry who will say and do anything that will sell more cars you don't have to like it but that is how it is. And if it one day turns out that selling farming equipment will give them massive profits i am sure they will slap an M badge on a tractor and call it a day and maybe ad the hofmeister kink on top of that to just for the fun of it.

But at least we do know one thing so far the car in it self is exceeding all expectations when it comes to performance and if then the design language is stopping you from experiencing a great car then there is definitely a questionable matter of how much of a enthusiast you truly are.

It is and always be one thing a company a means to an end, and that end is to earn as much money as possible whether it be selling great performance cars or one day in the future farming equipment who knows.

I know i wouldn't mind a tractor with an M badge if i was a farmer and it performed all task better then my previous tractor then i would be fine with it. Sens the badge doesn't matter in the end if the product is great and performs at the top of it game. So far BMW has been making cars that performs rather good no matter the look of the car, and i am sure they will make great cars in future also when everyone in end is gonna switch away from ICE engines.

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

More isn’t always the goal. Ideally, they only need as much demand as plant/component capacity.

Yeah, but with CLAR, this constraint has (almost) disappeared. They could (almost) assemble the car wherever they have spare capacity.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by KoenG

Yeah, but with CLAR, this constraint has (almost) disappeared. They could (almost) assemble the car wherever they have spare capacity.

There are subtleties related to powertrain complexity, framing and stamping, and wiring harnesses that make a later cross loading more of a challenge than it may first seem, even if the platform is shared. But, with some investment, certainly, much is possible. However, if they have spare capacity, that means another program missed its plan. It would be far more economical usually to overbuild to wholesale for the underperforming program and incentivize than spend the investment to do an unexpected cross load that probably takes a year and assumes the demand will remain.

[Lancelot]

I love it. I think they did a great job.

Will probably be my next car after the M550i in a few years since legislation is determined to kill ICE, and hydrogen power is not taking off.

At least it's something exciting i can look forward to driving.

[floating.spirit]

Positively riveting…

[mbanck]

Originally Posted by EMB-89

Totally agree.

There's a "tick list" when designing a BMW:
1) Kidney grille

Well, ok

2) Twin headlights

Not on the E21, there since the E30.

3) Sickle line on the side

Not on the E21, there since the E30 till the F30.

4) Hofmeister kink

Ok.

5) L shaped taillights

I've always wondered about that - the E21 and E30 obviously don't have it, the E36 also doesn't I think or what is your line of thought here?

The E46 has it, but the E90? The coupe maybe, but it's more like a reverse L?

Then the F30 had it, and I guess the G20 light signature is kinda L shaped.

Still, I think BMW taillights changed so often over the course of history that it is weird to call that heritage.

Any deviation from this is just silly...

I think what you meant to say is "Any deviation from what a BMW looked like when I was a teenager is just silly"

[EMB-89]

Originally Posted by mbanck

Well, ok



Not on the E21, there since the E30.



Not on the E21, there since the E30 till the F30.



Ok.



I've always wondered about that - the E21 and E30 obviously don't have it, the E36 also doesn't I think or what is your line of thought here?

The E46 has it, but the E90? The coupe maybe, but it's more like a reverse L?

Then the F30 had it, and I guess the G20 light signature is kinda L shaped.

Still, I think BMW taillights changed so often over the course of history that it is weird to call that heritage.



I think what you meant to say is "Any deviation from what a BMW looked like when I was a teenager is just silly"

Obviously the "tick list" evolved over time and was not there from the start. These elements became associated with the brand so why would you not include them in a new design?

Yes, every now and then there's a model that doesn't have an L taillight but it's added during a facelift or in the next generation.

And by the way, the BMW's from before I was a teenager are the ones I admire most.

[nosnoop]

Originally Posted by EMB-89

Yes, every now and then there's a model that doesn't have an L taillight but it's added during a facelift or in the next generation.

Both current X3 and X5 don't have it. From early spy shots, it looks like upcoming X3 LCI won't have it either.

[EMB-89]

Originally Posted by nosnoop

Both current X3 and X5 don't have it. From early spy shots, it looks like upcoming X3 LCI won't have it either.

Yeah I know, so that's like 2 cars in the entire lineup..

The X3 has never had it and looking at the picture, the X3 LCI definitely does not.

[-c-]

Originally Posted by Nahlem

Pretty much as correct as a statement can be. This forums does not reflect how well they will sell this cars, considering this is a enthusiast forums more then it is for the average BMW interested person. The narrow scope of vision for a lot of the users here makes them think they are a majority of who BMW is selling and making cars for. Just as with other forums where a lot of like minded people are there is little room for a different view of how something is gonna be or not. When you check the forums here a lot of people here are claiming "The end is near" BMW is gonna drown.

You go out to the real world people are more positive in their view of BMW's recent changes in both terms of design and putting more R&D and investing money in to sustainability. Being a Zealot is a dangerous thing it narrows your mind to such an extent that any other view is considered being heretic as we the Hofmeister kink that got so many on the forums exploding like a volcano... you go out to the real world and people are like "The kink what?"

Same with the grill change for with the 3 series as an example E21 you can clearly see the whole front is pretty much a grill both vertical and horizontal
[IMG]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_9UDz8Dgv1p...NG+%287%29.jpg[/IMG]

If you are telling your self something else then you are simply kidding your self it is when they went to the E36 design thats when they changed to that of the more horizontal grill with painting the sides of the grill making it smaller and less of a focus

[IMG]https://maxtondesign.com/eng_pm_FRON...E36-5615_1.jpg[/IMG]

And that was kept all the way to the F series so to speak when they started experimenting with connecting the headlights to the grill, oh man i remember what of a crazy show that was. So in other words BMW has been stuck design wise between the year 1970-2013. For me the E21 Enormous front as the whole grill have been looking more sporty then what came after it until E90.

Now that they have finally broken free of those chains and can experiment with the design. Thats when the conservative side went in to full nuclear meltdown on the forums :-) I bet BMW as a company when they change designer in the future someone is gonna say "Oh we will never ever change to that of the G series design grill again" and then show will go on and on. After all BMW does what BMW does the best making money whether it be of enthusiasts or the average Joe consumer.

Lol yea and when they interjected the flame styling and had those wonky concepts.

People also took to the streets and sent BMW head of design death threats LOL!

Then it to became the norm!

You have to shock people to stay relevant in this world.


Also it was funny when the "I" cars came out (I own one) everyone was pissing and moaning about the cars styling saying just make a normal looking EV bmw !!!

Then they do and still people complain!

Never gonna win.

I'm a car designer myself so i know the hardships that come with it. It can be a daunting job. You spend sleepless nights trying to create your leaderships vision only to then get raspberries from the public.....

Their may be good reasons to get rid of certain details that made sense in the studio and above and the public may never know the real reasons, but I'm sure the decisions where heavily thought over.

Your gonna have to break some eggs to make an omelette.

[hotrod182]

How is it this weighs 4800lbs?? That's as much as a Model S Plaid. And 1000lbs more than a Model 3. Tesla loses almost no range from the base dual motor performance, and BMW loses over 50 miles between sport and the M50? Hope real world tests prove otherwise.

[-c-]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

How is it this weighs 4800lbs?? That's as much as a Model S Plaid. And 1000lbs more than a Model 3. Tesla loses almost no range from the base dual motor performance, and BMW loses over 50 miles between sport and the M50? Hope real world tests prove otherwise.

Since BMW is not Tesla they probably have different tests to dictate range. Unless you where their during testing you don't know the simulations they did to account for the range.

Also does bmw count the range after the reader hits 0 miles or does it count the range until
The battery dies? Don't know.

I know in the summer time I can get over 120 miles on a full charge in the i3 even though it's rated for 80 miles. But that's with no AC. Bmw rated it in comfort mode with AC running to get to the 80mile range.

Their was a report on Tesla's not meeting its advertised range not long ago and it wasn't until people found out to just keep driving until the battery died did they reach the advertised range even though the range on the car read 0 for over 10 to 15 miles before.

That will give you anxiety ! No different than driving with your needle on E until the engine dies for no more gas really but would they cut it that close????

It's also each company uses different programming for battery management. BMW may be more conservative with its battery tech, as the amount they will not let the batteries charge and discharge for maximum life expectancy is also considered.

My I3 is a 2014 model year and I still get the same range as I did new. Where as the leaf and zoe show much steeper battery rage decline over the years.

Theirs a lot of hidden information on these incredibly complex products the the end consumer never sees, and just makes judgments on a spec sheet. Time will tell and once these manufacturers get going and crunch the numbers things will continue to get better and better.

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by -c-

You spend sleepless nights trying to create your leaderships vision only to then get raspberries from the public...
Your gonna have to break some eggs to make an omelette.

There is one thing to be a designer that just play believing that your design is a vision, and there is another thing to have the capability, talent and the faculty to be able to integrate and work with certain elements and still come up with a true evolving design.

Maybe sleep will help , yet this new design is not the resukt of a talented designer. Being a designer doesnt make you automatically a good one. Like in any other proefession, you can be good or just a mediocre guy in the niche... Like the team at BMW now...

Having critics is one thing, having a negative impact that generate reviews that make jokes or hate your design is another. When people will accept your design by saying “it will grow on me”, you must admit -at least in your own core- that probably is not the design that sells the car and that you failed miserably.

PS
Can you make an omelette without breaking the eggs? No.
But for a good omelette you don’t throw away the yolk. Might be “visionary” in your mind, but it doesn’t mean it is...

[-c-]

Originally Posted by Teutonic

There is one thing to be a designer that just play believing that your design is a vision, and there is another thing to have the capability, talent and the faculty to be able to integrate and work with certain elements and still come up with a true evolving design.

Maybe sleep will help , yet this new design is not the resukt of a talented designer. Being a designer doesnt make you automatically a good one. Like in any other proefession, you can be good or just a mediocre guy in the niche... Like the team at BMW now...

Having critics is one thing, having a negative impact that generate reviews that make jokes or hate your design is another. When people will accept your design by saying "it will grow on me", you must admit -at least in your own core- that probably is not the design that sells the car and that you failed miserably.

PS
Can you make an omelette without breaking the eggs? No.
But for a good omelette you don't throw away the yolk. Might be "visionary" in your mind, but it doesn't mean it is...

Totally agree. Problem is even a good designer falls victim to their leadership.

GM has some of the greatest designers in the world yet they create a long list of forgettable designs..

I was just saying that it's easy to critique but unless you live it on an every day basis you can't hate the design staff. Call on the people that choose this shit to go forward. That's the people in the drivers seat.

Those are the directors and VP of design and people above them.

Also the top shelf of group where all poached and design for China and other places now.

My leadership chooses questionable crap all the time. Their old and out of touch and always remiss about the 60's.

Again everyone's an expert, Unless your in a studio don't act like you know what's going on.

[-c-]

Originally Posted by Teutonic

There is one thing to be a designer that just play believing that your design is a vision, and there is another thing to have the capability, talent and the faculty to be able to integrate and work with certain elements and still come up with a true evolving design.

Maybe sleep will help , yet this new design is not the resukt of a talented designer. Being a designer doesnt make you automatically a good one. Like in any other proefession, you can be good or just a mediocre guy in the niche... Like the team at BMW now...

Having critics is one thing, having a negative impact that generate reviews that make jokes or hate your design is another. When people will accept your design by saying "it will grow on me", you must admit -at least in your own core- that probably is not the design that sells the car and that you failed miserably.

PS
Can you make an omelette without breaking the eggs? No.
But for a good omelette you don't throw away the yolk. Might be "visionary" in your mind, but it doesn't mean it is...

Originally Posted by Teutonic

There is one thing to be a designer that just play believing that your design is a vision, and there is another thing to have the capability,...

Jeez no reason to be so mean again it's not the design staff these decisions come from the top.

We just execute what they want..

It's like how the public hate an actor that played a villain so well it affects their real life where people spit at their feet thinking that's who they really are.

Oh well, hey do what I do vote with your wallet! Don't buy what you don't like. Go buy something else ! It's a free world. BMW doesn't have a gun to your head telling you to buy their product.


I for one is doing just that! Not one new bmw is on my short list.

Maybe a used I8 but that's it.

[sahajesh]

Let's be honest, it's probably going to sell regardless of the views of a relatively small number of BMW enthusiasts who frequent this forum. People here are a very vocal MINORITY, compared to the real-world.

Let's move on to something less divisive, for example Trump's tax returns

[-c-]

Originally Posted by sahajesh

Let's be honest, it's probably going to sell regardless of the views of a relatively small number of BMW enthusiasts who frequent this forum. People here are a very vocal MINORITY, compared to the real-world.

Let's move on to something less divisive, for example Trump's tax returns

Booya! Lol. Ohhhh man! That's poking a barrel of snakes !

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by -c-

Jeez no reason to be so mean again it's not the design staff these decisions come from the top.

We just execute what they want..

It's like how the public hate an actor that played a villain so well it affects their real life where people spit at their feet thinking that's who they really are.

So I imagine that the board says: "we're willing to take some risks, but we don't want to corrupt the DNA of the brand. Come with 3 designs, be ready to motivate and explain, and then we choose the one to develop in consent." Correct?

Then Dukec and Van hooydonck returned with this design and motivated it like this: 20% likes it and 80% not and that's ok since we don't design for the masses, it's polarizing and provocative it will devide enthousiasts like never before, a lot of the current owners will be shocked, in the process we ditched most of the typical BMW stuff and used a lot of Asian stuff from Lexus and even Infinity, we didn't organise clinics since people always complain, we also reflected on the marketing campaign and we believe that we should target dragonball Z gamers and we can stirr up the controversy with campaigns like "boomer, you'd better evolve since you are too conservative".

Then the board votes and concludes: "Yes, we want this!". LOL

[-c-]

Originally Posted by KoenG

So I imagine that the board says: "we're willing to take some risks, but we don't want to corrupt the DNA of the brand. Come with 3 designs, be ready to motivate and explain, and then we choose the one to develop in consent." Correct?

Then Dukec and Van hooydonck returned with this design and motivated it like this: 20% likes it and 80% not and that's ok since we don't design for the masses, it's polarizing and provocative it will devide enthousiasts like never before, a lot of the current owners will be shocked, in the process we ditched most of the typical BMW stuff and used a lot of Asian stuff from Lexus and even Infinity, we didn't organise clinics since people always complain, we also reflected on the marketing campaign and we believe that we should target dragonball Z gamers and we can stirr up the controversy with campaigns like "boomer, you'd better evolve since you are too conservative".

Then the board votes and concludes: "Yes, we want this!". LOL

Probably!


Lol

their new direction won't grow on me either as before their designs where cutting edge and it was something new and it created a movement and some people hated it their new stuff is just following the masses and not a fan.


Time will tell how they refine it as the flame styling got better over time but this new grille design has to go. Just doesn't work....

But that's just my opinion.