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Technical Topics B48 4-Cylinder Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications [B46] [G20] Bootmod3 Stage 2 First Impressions

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      03-31-2020, 02:22 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by VipinLJ View Post
That’s nice. It seems like you’re having lots of fun now. I wonder how it compares to a stock M340i. Even if it’s only a wee bit slower, that would be a win for the tunes 330i.

And yes. A video will be nice. Also, if you can do a launch control video of the speedometer, I’d love to see that and compare it to my car. Just for sh*ts and giggles.
Noted, I will try to do a launch for the fun of it. I've actually never launched the car since I've tuned it, didn't want any premature wear and tear. I will also try to get some nice acceleration clips, and lastly, also sound would be nice. I will try later in the week.
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      03-31-2020, 02:25 PM   #24
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Noted, I will try to do a launch for the fun of it. I've actually never launched the car since I've tuned it, didn't want any premature wear and tear. I will also try to get some nice acceleration clips, and lastly, also sound would be nice. I will try later in the week.
True. I wouldn’t do a lot of LC especially since our cars don’t have true LC. But once in a blue moon shouldn’t matter. I’ve done LC twice and brake boost four times till date. I haven’t done one in a while now
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      04-04-2020, 01:41 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by g20beam View Post
Must be before 03/2019 I believe.
I have a 330 produced 04/19 and i did send my veichle dme ID to PTF. Its tunable, must be one of the last unlocked 330s.
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      04-05-2020, 01:17 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by sspdw View Post
I have a 330 produced 04/19 and i did send my veichle dme ID to PTF. Its tunable, must be one of the last unlocked 330s.
Nice so now we know it’s 04/19 instead of 03/19, good info
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      04-05-2020, 03:51 AM   #27
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Driving clip while on Stage 2 AGG. Enjoy!

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      04-05-2020, 06:03 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by sspdw View Post
I have a 330 produced 04/19 and i did send my veichle dme ID to PTF. Its tunable, must be one of the last unlocked 330s.
would you happen to know if the 330i produced in 05/2019 would be tunable or not?
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      04-05-2020, 07:09 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by agma View Post
would you happen to know if the 330i produced in 05/2019 would be tunable or not?
It you get your dme ID with bm3 you can send them a photo of your actual map ID and they'll tell you. Apparenty HCP is releasing a new stage 1 map this coming week for EU b48s with GPF. On stage 1 93/98oct it will be very close to 300whp.
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      04-05-2020, 10:11 AM   #30
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Driving clip while on Stage 2 AGG. Enjoy!
Nice pops and bangs. I have similar pops and bangs with the stock system but not as loud. I love what you’ve done to your exhaust. I should do it when shops around here open again.
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      04-05-2020, 11:05 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by sspdw View Post
It you get your dme ID with bm3 you can send them a photo of your actual map ID and they'll tell you. Apparenty HCP is releasing a new stage 1 map this coming week for EU b48s with GPF. On stage 1 93/98oct it will be very close to 300whp.
Roughly 345 BHP with a stage 1 tune? So roughly a 85 HP / 33% increase? Pretty impressive if safe. Surprised that the stock turbo, that is small enough to have minimal lag that it spools very low rpms, is also large enough to achieve this high a horsepower when mated to a 2 litre, 4 cylinder.

Only time will tell, but I would not be surprised to see short life turbo failure or worse as more data comes in.

Good luck.
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      04-05-2020, 12:34 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Razor2010 View Post
Roughly 345 BHP with a stage 1 tune? So roughly a 85 HP / 33% increase? Pretty impressive if safe. Surprised that the stock turbo, that is small enough to have minimal lag that it spools very low rpms, is also large enough to achieve this high a horsepower when mated to a 2 litre, 4 cylinder.

Only time will tell, but I would not be surprised to see short life turbo failure or worse as more data comes in.

Good luck.
Thats what HC Performance told me, "very close to 300whp". I wouldnt say its 345 at the crank, it may be somwhere around 320-330 crank. A modern rwd car doesent have more than 10-12% drivetrain-losses.
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      04-05-2020, 01:05 PM   #33
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Just an update on reliability so far, listed below are all my power related mods:

- Catless Downpipe ($150 from eBay)
- Bootmod3 Stage 2 AGG
- Muffler Delete (Negligible gains, probably removes a bit more back pressure and produces more high end power, anyhow insignificant gains)

I have been running Stage 1 for basically half a year now and I have gone limp one time. I think the problem was I was going downhill and I was flooring it on a very cold day, anyhow I was in manual gear and I guess because there was only Sport mode at the time and no Sport+, the transmission timing was slow so when I wanted to shift from M1 to M2, I shifted late and so the ECU prevented me from breaking the rev limiter and put the car into limp mode. I was driving it off and it felt like my RPM band was being limited for about 2-3 minutes or so, and then the CEL disappeared along with the limp mode warning. It would say I have to take my car into a dealership for 2-3 minutes with CEL, but that all went away after about 2-3 minutes of slowly driving it. Nothing ever came back up. I’ve had the car inspected and nothing came up for it at the dealership, this inspection was done a couple of months after the limp mode incident occurred. Besides that incident, I have had no issues with Stage 1 at all. I am now on Stage 2 and a catless downpipe and all I can say is I think the car is more reliable now for sure, now that the turbo pressure is lifted with my cats removed. Even though I am making more power, I think it’s generally a more reliable setup over Stage 1, just because of turbo life longevity. Maybe you are putting more wear on your engine, but I think Stage 1 is already putting just as much more wear on the engine as Stage 2. The difference is there but it’s not a huge difference. A Stage 2 car is definitely faster than a Stage 1 car but that doesn’t mean a Stage 1 car isn’t plenty quick. All I’m saying is that BM3 Stage 2 OTS is still a plenty reliable map. I don’t see myself having engine problems until way later on. I do my oil changes frequently (I have done 5 oil changes now, I am at roughly 30000 km). I have had my catless downpipe for around 2 weeks now and no leaks so far. I have driven the car very hard a few times now these past couple of weeks just going out and testing the car and coming home (due to the coronavirus I just go for a cruise up north of where I live, it’s all farms and typically no traffic) or when I go to do groceries. I can say that Stage 2 is a much better tune than Stage 1. There’s no reason not to go Stage 2 unless emissions laws are strict for you. Definitely better for your turbo in the long run. The sound is also a world’s difference with Stage 2. Sounds way better IMO. The new B48’s sound great, better than any of the previous 4cyl’s from the BMW engine lineup. Right now I’m only worried about how my spark plugs are holding up, if I need to do charge pipes, and whether or not my downpipe will spring a leak. The eBay downpipe is honestly very solid. The welds are great and the quality is really good. I don’t think there will be problems but we’ll just have to wait and see. Time will answer all our questions.

Again feel free to shoot me a DM or reply to the thread if you have any questions. I will try to upload more clips today. Stay safe and try to stay isolated

Thanks again for reading!
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      04-05-2020, 01:18 PM   #34
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Regarding our vehicle’s transmission:

We share the same transmission model number as the A90 Supra as well as the M340i (I am almost certain the M340i also shares this transmission, correct me if I’m wrong). We all have the ZF8HP51 8 speed automatic transmission, rated at 500Nm of torque (equivalent to 368lbft of torque). I’m not sure what this all means but I am sure that an A90 Supra tuned to Stage 2 with the B58 motor will definitely be running higher than 368lbft of torque. But it will still be reliable, so I’m pretty sure for our cars the transmission is more than plenty capable of handling the output of the B48’s power. We shouldn’t have to worry about transmission reliability if at all, unless we are thinking about going Stage 2+.
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      04-05-2020, 01:47 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspdw View Post
Thats what HC Performance told me, "very close to 300whp". I wouldnt say its 345 at the crank, it may be somwhere around 320-330 crank. A modern rwd car doesent have more than 10-12% drivetrain-losses.
So 330 to 336 at the crank based on your 10-12%.
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      04-05-2020, 01:57 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Razor2010 View Post
So 330 to 336 at the crank based on your 10-12%.

Yeah if this claim of close to 300whp is true i would say its in the 330 at the crank. Im not that suprised to be honest, its exactly the same technical uprades in the b48tu as in the b58tu. And the b58tu is pushing up to 10% more power compared to the old b58.
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      04-05-2020, 02:16 PM   #37
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That’s a nice insight. I’m glad the car is better now. And I’m guessing the code the limp mode threw up disappeared by itself after a few hundred/hours and kms.

Which cat less DP did you buy? Does the car smell now?
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      04-05-2020, 04:00 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspdw View Post
Yeah if this claim of close to 300whp is true i would say its in the 330 at the crank. Im not that suprised to be honest, its exactly the same technical uprades in the b48tu as in the b58tu. And the b58tu is pushing up to 10% more power compared to the old b58.
The non-USA spec did not receive this emissions change update. B48TU was for a another USA model (M35i X2), which pushes more HP and TQ but at a lower compression. The USA spec B46 received an update to B46TU update for emissions. Please see attached.

I don’t think we share the same internals as the M340i, i.e., the 330i is not just two less cylinders and 1 less litre, there is more to it. Also, I would imagine that the software / programming is different for the M340i as compared to the 330i in regards to the gear box. It would not shock me to also learn that the M340i gear box has uprated internal physical components above the 330i.
Attached Images
File Type: pdf ST1837 B46TU-B48TU Engines.pdf (2.28 MB, 755 views)

Last edited by Razor2010; 04-05-2020 at 07:16 PM..
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      04-05-2020, 08:46 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Razor2010 View Post
The non-USA spec did not receive this emissions change update. B48TU was for a another USA model (M35i X2), which pushes more HP and TQ but at a lower compression. The USA spec B46 received an update to B46TU update for emissions. Please see attached.

I don’t think we share the same internals as the M340i, i.e., the 330i is not just two less cylinders and 1 less litre, there is more to it. Also, I would imagine that the software / programming is different for the M340i as compared to the 330i in regards to the gear box. It would not shock me to also learn that the M340i gear box has uprated internal physical components above the 330i.

Yes we do, and the updates are the same. New lighter crankshaft, new high pressure fuel system, revised cylinder head, new cooling managment system to name a few. Im not sure about compression, the b58 used to use 11:1 but the b48 uses 10,2:1 i.e better for higher boost. The gearbox is zfhp51 in both, exactly the same tourqe ratings. Just look at realoem.
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      04-05-2020, 09:38 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor2010 View Post
The non-USA spec did not receive this emissions change update. B48TU was for a another USA model (M35i X2), which pushes more HP and TQ but at a lower compression. The USA spec B46 received an update to B46TU update for emissions. Please see attached.

I don’t think we share the same internals as the M340i, i.e., the 330i is not just two less cylinders and 1 less litre, there is more to it. Also, I would imagine that the software / programming is different for the M340i as compared to the 330i in regards to the gear box. It would not shock me to also learn that the M340i gear box has uprated internal physical components above the 330i.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspdw View Post
Yes we do, and the updates are the same. New lighter crankshaft, new high pressure fuel system, revised cylinder head, new cooling managment system to name a few. Im not sure about compression, the b58 used to use 11:1 but the b48 uses 10,2:1 i.e better for higher boost. The gearbox is zfhp51 in both, exactly the same tourqe ratings. Just look at realoem.
The pdf file Razor2010 posted shows that sspdw is correct

Edit - Just realised @sspdw meant the B58 in the M340i was the same as the B46TU in the 330i less two cylinders and 1L (?). If so, I’m not sure. But what he says in the post I quoted is correct.
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      04-05-2020, 11:07 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by VipinLJ View Post
The pdf file Razor2010 posted shows that sspdw is correct

Edit - Just realised @sspdw meant the B58 in the M340i was the same as the B46TU in the 330i less two cylinders and 1L (?). If so, I’m not sure. But what he says in the post I quoted is correct.
The b48 shown in the pdf is a US designation for the engine in m35i cars. In EU all 2.0 I4 are named B48. Thats why this confusion occuring.
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      04-05-2020, 11:28 PM   #42
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The b48 shown in the pdf is a US designation for the engine in m35i cars. In EU all 2.0 I4 are named B48. Thats why this confusion occuring.
I think he knows that. I’m guessing his (and my) doubt is whether the B46TU/B48 (EU) engines are basically the exact same (when it comes to internals and gearbox and stuff) as the B58 in the M340i. Just two cylinders and a few hundred cubic centimeters less.
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      04-06-2020, 02:41 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by VipinLJ View Post
I think he knows that. I’m guessing his (and my) doubt is whether the B46TU/B48 (EU) engines are basically the exact same (when it comes to internals and gearbox and stuff) as the B58 in the M340i. Just two cylinders and a few hundred cubic centimeters less.
We should all do some more digging. Even the 330i USA spec and non-USA spec have different internals to each other, so not hard to imagine the B58 having different to the B48/46. I would argue the same for the gear box.
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      04-06-2020, 04:19 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razor2010 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by VipinLJ View Post
I think he knows that. I’m guessing his (and my) doubt is whether the B46TU/B48 (EU) engines are basically the exact same (when it comes to internals and gearbox and stuff) as the B58 in the M340i. Just two cylinders and a few hundred cubic centimeters less.
We should all do some more digging. Even the 330i USA spec and non-USA spec have different internals to each other, so not hard to imagine the B58 having different to the B48/46. I would argue the same for the gear box.
Let's clear up the confusion.

B46 and B48 difference is B46 has SULEV parts. Super Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle. Pretty sure those differences are made to match emissions laws in California. Anyhow, the layout of the B46 and B48 are the same, so is the engineering. The B48 has the same quality components as B58, at least the new TU engines are the same. The 190kW version of B46/B48 uses same quality materials for crankshaft, pistons, block and head as the 285kW B58. The compression ratios are all 11:1. Same with cylinder bore and stroke. The B46/B48 is, in essence, the B58 with two less cylinders, this all is fact.

SULEV or no SULEV, all these are, are more expensive parts. Doesn't affect reliability or power output as far as I'm aware. If a component such as pistons, crankshaft or any of above mentioned components fail in the B46, it will have the same chance of failure in a B48 or B58, if the B58 was pushed to the same stress extent as the B46/48 is.
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