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      11-24-2021, 07:01 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by TupperBMW View Post
In the end, it's up to BMW (since they own the brand 'M') what an M car is. Not to some hold outs on the internet.

If BMW is branding this car 'M' on the badge, then that speaks volumes.

Now you can argue that this dilutes 'M' branding, but in the end it is what it is. We all still know that an M3 is the superior car to the M340i in pretty much every performance-related measure....
The 'M' has been used for 'performance' version of sedans, from BEFORE the "full fat" 'M-cars' came into existence.

The 'M' first used on a sedan, was back in 1979, with the E12 M535i. Then on the E28 M535i. BMW then "tested the waters" with the first M5, the E28 M5, and the rest is history, as we say.

If we want a more detailed history of the introduction of the M5, we note the E28 M535i was the 'extrovert', in appearance, the later developed E28 M5 was initially intended to be a discreet 'Q-car'. The launch show car didn't have spoilers, even had steel wheels.

M Performance sits in between the cooking M-sport models, and the full M-cars. See it as an 'M-Lite,' where BMW have positioned it for decades.

What we are seeing at present, is the M-car being pushed up in pricing (certainly in Europe with the Competition models), in a sense putting it back where BMW started with the first M5, the intended market having more exclusivity. As Motor Sport commented back in 1986, they saw it as "the ultimate upper-crust Q-car".

My observation, the current M Performance models are filling the market place with more 'useable' versions, at a better price point. Much like the original M535i in 1979.
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      11-24-2021, 11:48 PM   #24
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As HighlandPete noted, the first M car based on a production vehicle was the E12 M535i; the engine was the same M30 found in the E23 7 Series and E24 6 Series. M modifications were mostly confined to the suspension, although the front brake rotors were 3mm thicker. The interior had Recaro seats and a Motorsport wheel. The exterior had a front airdam, rear lip spoiler, cross-spoke BBS wheels and Motorsport striping. No bespoke engine or body panels. It was definitely not a "real" M car by today's standards.
I also have an E36/5 318ti Club Sport; it came from Munich with ///M emblems on the side molding, E36 M3 mirrors, and an M tricolor stripe on the shift knob.
BMW's penchant for ///M badging cars has been around almost as long as their Motorsport division.
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      11-26-2021, 07:09 PM   #25
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In addition to all the other comments, it's worth noting the drop of the 340i badge and replacing it with m340i.

It's like an updated 340i with the M Sport Package, M Performance and the MPPSK. Instead of adding all of that, it now comes standard to bridge the gap between regular 3 series and the M3. It's not just some inline 6 from another platform thrown in.

The MPPSK is a tune and an exhaust from BMW. So the updated B58 has a more performance oriented tune amongst a few other updates to give it more power.

As someone else mentioned, it's BMW's answer to the S4 and the C43 AMG.
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      11-30-2021, 09:37 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TupperBMW View Post
Here is what I'm getting from looking online:

Quote:
For example, Car and Driver and Road & Track report the 3-Series’ M Sport package adds quicker steering, differently-colored brake calipers, and M Sport suspension. The X5 M Sport package, meanwhile, swaps the sport suspension for an adaptive system. So, although the M Sport package is mostly cosmetic, it can improve handling, if not exactly performance.
Quote:
One step above M Sport is M Performance. An easy way to distinguish between the two is by the badge on the trunk. A 340i with the M Sport package, for instance, will just say ‘340i’; the M Performance version, the BMW M340i, though will actually say ‘M340i.’ And while M Sport is mostly about looks, M Performance adds genuine speed.

Sticking with the 3-Series, the M340i gets a different engine than the standard car. The standard 3-Series engine is a 2.0-liter turbocharged four-cylinder, making 255 hp. The M340i, though, has a 3.0-liter twin-turbocharged six-cylinder, making 382 hp. Car and Driver found the added power dropped the 0-60 time from 5.2 seconds to 3.8 seconds.

Although it no longer has a manual, the M Performance version does get M Sport brakes, M Sport exhaust, larger wheels and sportier tires, additional selectable driving modes, and a standard electronically-controlled locking rear differential. R&T also reports North America is the only market to receive a rear-wheel drive M340i; every other market only gets the all-wheel drive version. Incidentally, the M340i’s AWD is modified compared to the standard 3-Series’.
Then, when talking about true M cars:

Quote:
And where M Performance cars are mostly intended for street-driving, every BMW M SUV and car is designed with track racing in mind. Matt Farah of The Smoking Tire even took an X5 M on a series of track days across the US, and it never broke down. Also, Car and Driver reports that BMW offers every X5 M and X6 M buyer training at one of its M driving schools. Which, considering what the M models receive, is likely very necessary.

The most obvious is even more power. The standard BMW M3 uses the same 3.0-liter twin-turbocharged six-cylinder as the M340i, only in the M3, it makes 425 hp, according to Car and Driver. The M3 Competition boosts that even further, to 444 hp. The upcoming 2021 M3 could offer as much as 510 hp. But the M-specific modifications go further than that.

BMW gives its M cars wider, grippier tires, unique wheels, well-bolstered sport seats, and upgraded brake pad compounds. Multiple metal components are replaced with carbon-fiber versions: the M5 has a carbon-fiber roof, for instance, while the M4 also gets a carbon-fiber trunk lid and engine brace.

BMW engineers further tweak the M adaptive suspension, differentials, and AWD systems. Drivers can also adjust their M car’s engine, transmission, suspension, and driving modes even more than in the M Performance cars.
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/whats-t...m-performance/

So the M cars are obviously even more performance oriented, no disputing that. But I would say that the hardware differences between a 330i M Sport package and a M340i are greater than those between an M340i and an M3
The M340i can now have a carbon fiber roof. Ive ordered it on mine. Taking delivery late December
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      12-03-2021, 09:19 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TupperBMW View Post
In the end, it's up to BMW (since they own the brand 'M') what an M car is. Not to some hold outs on the internet.

If BMW is branding this car 'M' on the badge, then that speaks volumes.

Now you can argue that this dilutes 'M' branding, but in the end it is what it is. We all still know that an M3 is the superior car to the M340i in pretty much every performance-related measure....
FACTS!!!
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      12-05-2021, 11:19 AM   #28
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330i M sports doesn't come standard with the M sport diff like the M340i unless spec'ed with the optional dynamic handling package so that's another small differentiation.

That M sport diff is a critical component in the handling characteristics. I fly thru chicanes where normal cars are braking for eternity and that's only made possible because of that LSD.

Anyhow, as said, it's not a real M car but that's fine since there are folks who prefer this to a real M for their needs regardless of budget.
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      12-08-2021, 10:02 AM   #29
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The m340i is a very good street car that has great performance. But on paper it does not stack up to actual M cars when looking at handling and top end performance. Just watch any video BMW posted on the new M3/4 and how they made them. They go over so many details on how the car is different from a series car. The chassis of the cars themselves are different they are not the same.

M Performance - Your m340i
- Built by BMW, series car VIN starts with WBA
- M lite
- G20 chassis and B58

M cars - M2/3/4/5/6/8 anything
- Built by M, M car VIN starts with WBS
- Track ready purpose built for handling
- G80 chassis and S58
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      12-08-2021, 12:16 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v_ckash623 View Post
Lite M, diet M, it's the best of both worlds in my eyes. You get some of the ooohs and ahhhs of the M proper, without paying the full M tax. It's one of the better entries into the Bimmer world.

Ignore the M badge and the comparisons and forums on whether or not the car "measures up". Those who know, know. And those that don't will find out.
Very well said
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      12-08-2021, 04:23 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirst View Post
...it's BMW's answer to the S4 and the C43 AMG.
Bingo. So much of this has to do with economics. There was gap in their lineup, and they offered up a competitive product to fill in. For so many of us who simply do not track their cars, full-on M cars are overkill and come with a price differential that doesn't really make sense for our needs. The M340i and M550i really nicely bridge that gap.
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      12-08-2021, 05:35 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Rocket455 View Post
Bingo. So much of this has to do with economics. There was gap in their lineup, and they offered up a competitive product to fill in. For so many of us who simply do not track their cars, full-on M cars are overkill and come with a price differential that doesn't really make sense for our needs. The M340i and M550i really nicely bridge that gap.
I think the reality is even most people with M cars don't go to the track. It's a status thing and the option to track should they want to with a better track car IMO. In real life you can't utilize all the performance of an M Car on the street. Just like a Porsche or any other sports car other than to drag race somebody. Most people around here seem to only care about straight line speed and are turning M cars into the high 700-800 HP range. That is not optimal for the track so they obviously just want to blow people away in drags.
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      12-08-2021, 10:33 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TruthOne View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket455 View Post
Bingo. So much of this has to do with economics. There was gap in their lineup, and they offered up a competitive product to fill in. For so many of us who simply do not track their cars, full-on M cars are overkill and come with a price differential that doesn't really make sense for our needs. The M340i and M550i really nicely bridge that gap.
I think the reality is even most people with M cars don't go to the track. It's a status thing and the option to track should they want to with a better track car IMO. In real life you can't utilize all the performance of an M Car on the street. Just like a Porsche or any other sports car other than to drag race somebody. Most people around here seem to only care about straight line speed and are turning M cars into the high 700-800 HP range. That is not optimal for the track so they obviously just want to blow people away in drags.
This is so true, I've been observing ppl on these forums for a few years and when I read someone (witch is a damn rare occasion) talking about is real world track experience on a regular basis I subscribe or reply instantly and get all excited for the next feedback or replies...

I can't blame them since I've been there too when I bought my first BMW 135i that I tweaked to 550whp. Keep in mind I came from a drag racing background. After I discovered track days/lapping/hpde I immediately baught a Miata and started attending events, I then switched to a newer Miata and afterwards replaced my drag prepped 135i for a 2015 M235i and it was done I could do everything, drag race, track days and weekend cruiser with the same car. The M2 followed and I stopped drag racing and now with a newborn the M340i is an awesome companion. Why no M3 ? 1- Price, much more expensive than F series, 2- We don't have the roads for full M cars around here, I learned my lesson with the M2, 3- G series M340i is so good, I am just as fast as I was with my modded OG M2...

Bottom line is don't get to hung up on model disignations, enjoy what you want/have and for what it is and is capable of.
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      12-08-2021, 11:10 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v_ckash623 View Post
Lite M, diet M, it's the best of both worlds in my eyes. You get some of the ooohs and ahhhs of the M proper, without paying the full M tax. It's one of the better entries into the Bimmer world.

Ignore the M badge and the comparisons and forums on whether or not the car "measures up". Those who know, know. And those that don't will find out.
While I really like mine, I would not turn down an M
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      12-09-2021, 12:02 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLF69 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruthOne View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket455 View Post
Bingo. So much of this has to do with economics. There was gap in their lineup, and they offered up a competitive product to fill in. For so many of us who simply do not track their cars, full-on M cars are overkill and come with a price differential that doesn't really make sense for our needs. The M340i and M550i really nicely bridge that gap.
I think the reality is even most people with M cars don't go to the track. It's a status thing and the option to track should they want to with a better track car IMO. In real life you can't utilize all the performance of an M Car on the street. Just like a Porsche or any other sports car other than to drag race somebody. Most people around here seem to only care about straight line speed and are turning M cars into the high 700-800 HP range. That is not optimal for the track so they obviously just want to blow people away in drags.
This is so true, I've been observing ppl on these forums for a few years and when I read someone (witch is a damn rare occasion) talking about is real world track experience on a regular basis I subscribe or reply instantly and get all excited for the next feedback or replies...

I can't blame them since I've been there too when I bought my first BMW 135i that I tweaked to 550whp. Keep in mind I came from a drag racing background. After I discovered track days/lapping/hpde I immediately baught a Miata and started attending events, I then switched to a newer Miata and afterwards replaced my drag prepped 135i for a 2015 M235i and it was done I could do everything, drag race, track days and weekend cruiser with the same car. The M2 followed and I stopped drag racing and now with a newborn the M340i is an awesome companion. Why no M3 ? 1- Price, much more expensive than F series, 2- We don't have the roads for full M cars around here, I learned my lesson with the M2, 3- G series M340i is so good, I am just as fast as I was with my modded OG M2...

Bottom line is don't get to hung up on model disignations, enjoy what you want/have and for what it is and is capable of.
Nice post and that's exactly it , the common negatives people throw at the M lites are you can't afford a full M car so you settled, you're a poser M car , etc. Even here there are some M owners who go hard against the M lites for things like the m side mirrors , carbon fiber roof, badges, quad tip exhausts. Some want to feel exclusive so they rail against the car which is silly as f because no matter what the M cars look way more aggressive. Especially since BMW themselves designated those things not some Chinese aftermarket parts bin.
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      12-09-2021, 06:49 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TruthOne View Post
Nice post and that's exactly it , the common negatives people throw at the M lites are you can't afford a full M car so you settled, you're a poser M car , etc. Even here there are some M owners who go hard against the M lites for things like the m side mirrors , carbon fiber roof, badges, quad tip exhausts. Some want to feel exclusive so they rail against the car which is silly as f because no matter what the M cars look way more aggressive. Especially since BMW themselves designated those things not some Chinese aftermarket parts bin.
Well, those people typically aren't in a BMW to truly be passing judgement. And any of those people who are in a BMW and passing judgement are kinda neckbeardish in stature.

But, if the person receiving these negatives is high off the M in the 340 name and letting everyone with ears know they've got an M, then the universe is just bringing balance by pulling the person back down to earth.
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Last edited by k4sh_90; 12-09-2021 at 06:50 AM.. Reason: Readability
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      12-09-2021, 06:52 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by themnmd View Post
While I really like mine, I would not turn down an M
Oh 100% with you there. I'm happy with the practical choice in vehicle. But if offered an M, I'd take it and run.
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      12-09-2021, 08:58 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v_ckash623 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruthOne View Post
Nice post and that's exactly it , the common negatives people throw at the M lites are you can't afford a full M car so you settled, you're a poser M car , etc. Even here there are some M owners who go hard against the M lites for things like the m side mirrors , carbon fiber roof, badges, quad tip exhausts. Some want to feel exclusive so they rail against the car which is silly as f because no matter what the M cars look way more aggressive. Especially since BMW themselves designated those things not some Chinese aftermarket parts bin.
Well, those people typically aren't in a BMW to truly be passing judgement. And any of those people who are in a BMW and passing judgement are kinda neckbeardish in stature.

But, if the person receiving these negatives is high off the M in the 340 name and letting everyone with ears know they've got an M, then the universe is just bringing balance by pulling the person back down to earth.
lol True but a lot of the backlash is at BMW themselves for the carbon roof ,badge and mirrors
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      12-09-2021, 09:07 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TruthOne View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by v_ckash623 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruthOne View Post
Nice post and that's exactly it , the common negatives people throw at the M lites are you can't afford a full M car so you settled, you're a poser M car , etc. Even here there are some M owners who go hard against the M lites for things like the m side mirrors , carbon fiber roof, badges, quad tip exhausts. Some want to feel exclusive so they rail against the car which is silly as f because no matter what the M cars look way more aggressive. Especially since BMW themselves designated those things not some Chinese aftermarket parts bin.
Well, those people typically aren't in a BMW to truly be passing judgement. And any of those people who are in a BMW and passing judgement are kinda neckbeardish in stature.

But, if the person receiving these negatives is high off the M in the 340 name and letting everyone with ears know they've got an M, then the universe is just bringing balance by pulling the person back down to earth.
lol True but a lot of the backlash is at BMW themselves for the carbon roof ,badge and mirrors
I find this so hilarious, like a carbon roof, pointy useless mirrors and badges are proprietary to "Real M car/owners"

It's ridiculous how some ppl identify themselves like there car is an extension of them. I love cars and sometimes I do develop some emotions towards experience I lived by using them and driving them but you have to remind yourselves most of the car you see or own are going to end up crushed within your lifespan.
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      12-09-2021, 11:47 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v_ckash623 View Post
But, if the person receiving these negatives is high off the M in the 340 name and letting everyone with ears know they've got an M, then the universe is just bringing balance by pulling the person back down to earth.
^ I really don't think most M performance car owners are like this at all....

There is nobody who needs to be "pulled back down to earth". What a silly post
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      12-09-2021, 02:39 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by TupperBMW View Post
^ I really don't think most M performance car owners are like this at all....
No, definitely not. But not many "real M" drivers are really out witch hunting M performance cars for "posing" either. The point I'm trying to make is that people who know can tell when something has been added onto the car vs what it came with. BMW is in it to sell cars, and if throwing M badges and styling on a car pushes units, then that's what they'll do. No one likes a try-hard. Just enjoy the car for being a damn good car, not because BMW sold you some extra lettering.
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      12-11-2021, 01:38 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bc2005 View Post
If someone asks that type of question they are not very conversant in BMW terminology, and probably not really a BMW fan. Most of the time they are just trying to jerk your chain.

- The BMW M series has been around for quite a while, and the M designation is clear because there is only one digit after the M in the model name.

- Several years ago BMW created the M Sport trim package, which was primarily a dress-up package with an aero kit, unique badging, etc. There was usually no engine difference, but most models did have the option for some unique equipment (sport brakes, sport steering wheel, etc.)

- M Performance is a relatively recent designation and it falls in between full M and the M Sport. M Performance models usually have trim that is similar to the M Sport option (aero kits, logos, etc.), but in addition they have a higher performance engine and other performance features (M sport differential, Sport+ settings, etc.). It is not at the same level as the M engines, but it is a significant step up in horsepower from the lesser models.

For example, the current M3 can achieve a 0-60 of about 3.5 seconds; however, the M340i is in the range of 3.8-4.2 seconds, depending on who tests it. A 330i with M Sport option would probably be in the 5.4 second range.
If you want to compare apples to apples, M3 Comp xDrive is 0-60 in 3.1…..vs…..m340i xDrive in 4.0. And, if you want to include the 1 ft rollout as the auto magazines do….it's 2.9 vs 3.8. That's a pretty significant difference. And, the gap becomes even more pronounced in a rolling or quarter mile race where higher speeds are involved.

But beyond the significant power difference, as so many on here have mentioned….is the fact that the M3 feels completely different in almost every facet….steering, suspension, brakes, etc, etc. The M3 appeals to all the senses when you're riding in one…..it's hard to describe and somewhat intangible, but it just feels and sounds much different. I have ridden recently in both an m340i xDrive as well as a new G80 M3 and I can tell you there's a significant difference. It feels like something special. I am in the camp that truly feels the m340i is closer to a 330i than an M3.
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      12-11-2021, 04:46 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by v_ckash623 View Post
No, definitely not. But not many "real M" drivers are really out witch hunting M performance cars for "posing" either. The point I'm trying to make is that people who know can tell when something has been added onto the car vs what it came with. BMW is in it to sell cars, and if throwing M badges and styling on a car pushes units, then that's what they'll do. No one likes a try-hard. Just enjoy the car for being a damn good car, not because BMW sold you some extra lettering.
I think there is room to allow people to enjoy the ‘M’ badge even while knowing that you’re not getting the complete product. You are getting a part of it. Most M Performance buyers are fully aware of this.

In my case, this is exactly what I wanted. I don’t have winter tires on my Porsche and I needed an alternative car for daily driving, and my Acura was getting old. So for me, a practical but high performing car was a must. But something like an M3 would’ve been overkill (and my garage would be host to a REALLY intense German rivalry hosting an M3 and a 911!)
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      12-11-2021, 04:54 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by The Nerd View Post
If you want to compare apples to apples, M3 Comp xDrive is 0-60 in 3.1…..vs…..m340i xDrive in 4.0. And, if you want to include the 1 ft rollout as the auto magazines do….it's 2.9 vs 3.8. That's a pretty significant difference. And, the gap becomes even more pronounced in a rolling or quarter mile race where higher speeds are involved.

But beyond the significant power difference, as so many on here have mentioned….is the fact that the M3 feels completely different in almost every facet….steering, suspension, brakes, etc, etc. The M3 appeals to all the senses when you're riding in one…..it's hard to describe and somewhat intangible, but it just feels and sounds much different. I have ridden recently in both an m340i xDrive as well as a new G80 M3 and I can tell you there's a significant difference. It feels like something special. I am in the camp that truly feels the m340i is closer to a 330i than an M3.
I’ve never ridden in an M3, and I hope to some day.

But I can definitely concur that a TRUE sports car the M340i is NOT. My 911 feels WAY different. Albeit it’s a totally different car with a rear engine and lots of power. But it’s a beast of a car, or rather a polite beast of the car that is glued to the road and would feel at home in a track.

I imagine that the M3 is much more like that.

Having said that, the M340i deserves some more credit than saying it’s just a glorified 330i. I know what a true sports car feels like, and the M340i holds up decently well when challenged. It’s a bit stiffer on the curves than I’d like, but still able to hold its own. And the damn thing is FAST FAST FAST. It’s nothing short of a performance machine, if you don’t want to call it anything else. BMW did well by this car, it just needs to sound better. That’s where an aftermarket exhaust comes in
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