[squelchy451]

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Just drove a G20 and BMW has redeemed itself a little in my eyes. I drove a E46 a looooong time ago, then had two GTIs, one 2017 Mazda 3, and currently in a 2009 Benz E350. My ex had a F30 328i and that was one of the worst cars I have ever driven.

My parents took their X2 for servicing and got one a G20 330i for a courtesy rental and I took it for a jaunt. Here are my impressions:

Looks: Totally subjective, but it's not a bad looking car. I'd shrink the kidney grilles to 80-90% of what they are now, but at least it doesn't have the "lobotomy scar" of the F30 anymore--the hood goes all the way to the grilles which is the best way to do it. The second best is the "clamshell" method, which is what you see on the 6th gen Camaro and the 4th gen Mazda 3. Some of the body lines seem superfluous but I'll live with it. The rear looks like a Lexus but with some German simplicity added to it.

Engine: Gets the job done, very smooth for a 4 cyl, doesn't sound like a diesel with dinner plates on top of it. The F30 engine pulled harder but sounded much worse than my GTI, which was also a turbo 4 banger with direct injection. The electronic engine sound isn't obnoxious but I would pull the fuse on that module if I bought a G20 for myself.

Transmission: I wasn't a fan of how it was tuned on the F30. Comfort D was always a gear too high, creating an unpleasant boomy sound and the engine always felt like it about to bog down. Sport D solved that problem, but the shifts were very harsh (transmission had a service done, so I don't think it's a faulty unit). I also had issues with the ZF8 hunting for gears at slower speeds.

The G20 transmission is VERY eager to downshift. 1, 2, and 3 seems spaced a little further apart. At highway speeds, it'd always downshift even when I was feathering the throttle in comfort mode. There is a lot less hesitation and even in sport mode, the shifts were executed more smoothly

Ride quality: Miles ahead of the F30, which I drove without the run-flat tires. Smoother over smaller bumps, and larger bumps did not bother the car as much and had a more muted "thump".

Steering: This is where the G20 really improves over the F30. The F30 had the worst steering feel I've ever driven, even compared to a lowly Mazda 3 or even my brother's base Subaru Impreza. It's not insanely sharp like a BRZ/86 but it is what a sports sedan should feel like.

Interior: I'm not the best judge of this, but it seemed fine for what it is. The dash seems bigger now, almost like a FWD car but the rest of the car is very good. Seats are very comfortable and goes down even lower than the F30.

The only thing the F30 has over the G20 is that it's available with a manual transmission. The G20 is a genuinely exciting car that also is well tuned for comfort when needed. It's hard to believe that one car company was responsible for the E46, E90, F30, and G20. Such different cars under the model line. Where as the GTI (I've driven the mk4 and mk7, owned the mk5 and mk6) felt like a steady progression, the 3 series has been more of a roller coaster ride, for better or for worse.

The G20 takes the 3 series out of the nadir reached by the F30, but for me, the looks and the lack of a manual trans is a deal breaker, despite how much better the ZF8 is on the G20.

[upsidedownfunnel]

It truly is a shame they improved the G20 so much yet dropped the manual. Especially considering the M3 still has a manual. The M340i in a manual would have been my Goldilocks car. I feel like a poser driving an M3 but I'd rather spend more and get a manual than drive an auto.

[golf_234]

Agree that the G20 really buttoned up so many things, and has some of the best driving dynamics of any 3 series ever. They just nailed it, even in the base trim. M340i is just excellence. So with you on that. Disagree that the F30 was as bad as you portray though.

The early F30 328's were not great so I can see why you would say that. The facelift models were much superior with the F30 so I do agree sadly there is an asterisk there. You do have to appreciate the F30 as pioneering into a new kind of car, with electric steering, and so forth. To disregard the F30 as part of the process leading to the G20 is to disregard natural product development, it is a process.
I really do love my late model 340i F30 M Sport, and have had many BMWs of all kinds. E36, E46, E82, E90, F30, and so on. Just a great all around car. For example, I would choose my car over that new 4, for sure. One thing that the F30 nailed is the M Sport Styling, just perfection every single time I look at my car I just am awed by the styling perfection.

You just have to let each model be itself. The F30 , especially 340i is a very refined, smooth car, I love it for what it is. Plan to hang on to this thing for quite some time, but will prob jump to the G20 M340i, one of the last two model years after facelift next. The new 4 is harder for me to like, sadly , just aesthetic wise.

[zamboni]

Could not agreed more with golf_234 on the F30 M340 car, both 335i and M340 M Sport were great cars to drive. Not a fan of the G20 with front end design and the tail light is closer to Lexus IS, still prefer the F30 M sport design over G20.BMW really diluted the M brand cars by adding the M to every single series. Stop calling the M Sport series cars when is not a genuine M cars.
My plan is to keep the F80 for a bit longer now that I've seen the new 4 series release and predicted BMW would do the poor front grille design on the new G80 M3 & G82 M4 Coupe.
If you want to keep the joy of driving a BMW then get a MT and the new M cars would no longer offers the DCT on next release.

[squelchy451]

I haven't tried the LCI F30, maybe I do owe it to myself to check that one out to see if they've massaged out the issues, which would be great since I have a soft spot for the 320i--I don't need all the features, just a 6 speed manual, FR layout, and a decent ride quality

[mbanck]

Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel

It truly is a shame they improved the G20 so much yet dropped the manual. Especially considering the M3 still has a manual. The M340i in a manual would have been my Goldilocks car. I feel like a poser driving an M3 but I'd rather spend more and get a manual than drive an auto.

It's because virtually nobody bought the manuals in the F3x generation.

Maybe Toyota will convince them to reintroduce the B58/6MT pairing for the Supra and it will trickle-down to the G20 M340i, but I wouldn't hold my breath for it.

[NorCalAthlete]

Originally Posted by mbanck

It's because virtually nobody bought the manuals in the F3x generation.

Maybe Toyota will convince them to reintroduce the B58/6MT pairing for the Supra and it will trickle-down to the G20 M340i, but I wouldn't hold my breath for it.

They've confirmed manual options for the G8x M3/M4.

[shawntech]

I miss the reliability and build quality of my lci f30, at 8000mi I'm just beta testing my m340i

[golf_234]

Originally Posted by zamboni

Could not agreed more with golf_234 on the F30 M340 car, both 335i and M340 M Sport were great cars to drive. Not a fan of the G20 with front end design and the tail light is closer to Lexus IS, still prefer the F30 M sport design over G20.BMW really diluted the M brand cars by adding the M to every single series. Stop calling the M Sport series cars when is not a genuine M cars.
My plan is to keep the F80 for a bit longer now that I've seen the new 4 series release and predicted BMW would do the poor front grille design on the new G80 M3 & G82 M4 Coupe.
If you want to keep the joy of driving a BMW then get a MT and the new M cars would no longer offers the DCT on next release.

For sure, so much marketing hype nowadays. I have also been disappointed with the styling on the new 4. Is what it is but the proof for me is in that I have no interest in spending anything on it, which kinda speaks to the true feeling. Lucky man, G80 is a stunner.
This is my F30 before I tinted it.

Originally Posted by squelchy451

I haven't tried the LCI F30, maybe I do owe it to myself to check that one out to see if they've massaged out the issues, which would be great since I have a soft spot for the 320i--I don't need all the features, just a 6 speed manual, FR layout, and a decent ride quality

For sure, still with ya that the G20 is amazing on driving dynamics though all things aside. It is like they really took and compiled all the details of all of their previous cars, and said what works best, and just did it. Such a rewarding car to drive. Poised, sporty, composed. no doubt. Could definitely see myself driving this next, after the LCI.

[zamboni]

Nice F30 you got there golf_234, love those wheels car look sharp.

[TLOLX]

Originally Posted by squelchy451

Just drove a G20 and BMW has redeemed itself a little in my eyes. I drove a E46 a looooong time ago, then had two GTIs, one 2017 Mazda 3, and currently in a 2009 Benz E350. My ex had a F30 328i and that was one of the worst cars I have ever driven.

My parents took their X2 for servicing and got one a G20 330i for a courtesy rental and I took it for a jaunt. Here are my impressions:

Looks: Totally subjective, but it's not a bad looking car. I'd shrink the kidney grilles to 80-90% of what they are now, but at least it doesn't have the "lobotomy scar" of the F30 anymore--the hood goes all the way to the grilles which is the best way to do it. The second best is the "clamshell" method, which is what you see on the 6th gen Camaro and the 4th gen Mazda 3. Some of the body lines seem superfluous but I'll live with it. The rear looks like a Lexus but with some German simplicity added to it.

Engine: Gets the job done, very smooth for a 4 cyl, doesn't sound like a diesel with dinner plates on top of it. The F30 engine pulled harder but sounded much worse than my GTI, which was also a turbo 4 banger with direct injection. The electronic engine sound isn't obnoxious but I would pull the fuse on that module if I bought a G20 for myself.

Transmission: I wasn't a fan of how it was tuned on the F30. Comfort D was always a gear too high, creating an unpleasant boomy sound and the engine always felt like it about to bog down. Sport D solved that problem, but the shifts were very harsh (transmission had a service done, so I don't think it's a faulty unit). I also had issues with the ZF8 hunting for gears at slower speeds.

The G20 transmission is VERY eager to downshift. 1, 2, and 3 seems spaced a little further apart. At highway speeds, it'd always downshift even when I was feathering the throttle in comfort mode. There is a lot less hesitation and even in sport mode, the shifts were executed more smoothly

Ride quality: Miles ahead of the F30, which I drove without the run-flat tires. Smoother over smaller bumps, and larger bumps did not bother the car as much and had a more muted "thump".

Steering: This is where the G20 really improves over the F30. The F30 had the worst steering feel I've ever driven, even compared to a lowly Mazda 3 or even my brother's base Subaru Impreza. It's not insanely sharp like a BRZ/86 but it is what a sports sedan should feel like.

Interior: I'm not the best judge of this, but it seemed fine for what it is. The dash seems bigger now, almost like a FWD car but the rest of the car is very good. Seats are very comfortable and goes down even lower than the F30.

The only thing the F30 has over the G20 is that it's available with a manual transmission. The G20 is a genuinely exciting car that also is well tuned for comfort when needed. It's hard to believe that one car company was responsible for the E46, E90, F30, and G20. Such different cars under the model line. Where as the GTI (I've driven the mk4 and mk7, owned the mk5 and mk6) felt like a steady progression, the 3 series has been more of a roller coaster ride, for better or for worse.

The G20 takes the 3 series out of the nadir reached by the F30, but for me, the looks and the lack of a manual trans is a deal breaker, despite how much better the ZF8 is on the G20.

"Seats are very comfortable and goes down even lower than the F30."

Interesting. I have a F31 and a G20, both with M Pack sport seats, and in my case is the opposite. It is very comfortable, for sure, but I was never able to find in my G20 that lower characteristic BMW drive position I have on my F31. Every time I move from one to another it is notorious and It is IMO the only unimproved point. (Besides instrument cluster, but this is another story...)

[mbanck]

Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete

They've confirmed manual options for the G8x M3/M4.

Yeah sure, but this thread is about people complaining the M340i doesn't have it.

[Tam the Bam]

Originally Posted by mbanck

Yeah sure, but this thread is about people complaining the M340i doesn't have it.

I don’t think that is what this thread is about..... see original post.

[mbanck]

Yeah, correction: this is what this thread has turned into.

[LMK5]

Originally Posted by squelchy451

Just drove a G20 and BMW has redeemed itself a little in my eyes. I drove a E46 a looooong time ago, then had two GTIs, one 2017 Mazda 3, and currently in a 2009 Benz E350. My ex had a F30 328i and that was one of the worst cars I have ever driven.

My parents took their X2 for servicing and got one a G20 330i for a courtesy rental and I took it for a jaunt. Here are my impressions:

Looks: Totally subjective, but it's not a bad looking car. I'd shrink the kidney grilles to 80-90% of what they are now, but at least it doesn't have the "lobotomy scar" of the F30 anymore--the hood goes all the way to the grilles which is the best way to do it. The second best is the "clamshell" method, which is what you see on the 6th gen Camaro and the 4th gen Mazda 3. Some of the body lines seem superfluous but I'll live with it. The rear looks like a Lexus but with some German simplicity added to it.

Engine: Gets the job done, very smooth for a 4 cyl, doesn't sound like a diesel with dinner plates on top of it. The F30 engine pulled harder but sounded much worse than my GTI, which was also a turbo 4 banger with direct injection. The electronic engine sound isn't obnoxious but I would pull the fuse on that module if I bought a G20 for myself.

Transmission: I wasn't a fan of how it was tuned on the F30. Comfort D was always a gear too high, creating an unpleasant boomy sound and the engine always felt like it about to bog down. Sport D solved that problem, but the shifts were very harsh (transmission had a service done, so I don't think it's a faulty unit). I also had issues with the ZF8 hunting for gears at slower speeds.

The G20 transmission is VERY eager to downshift. 1, 2, and 3 seems spaced a little further apart. At highway speeds, it'd always downshift even when I was feathering the throttle in comfort mode. There is a lot less hesitation and even in sport mode, the shifts were executed more smoothly

Ride quality: Miles ahead of the F30, which I drove without the run-flat tires. Smoother over smaller bumps, and larger bumps did not bother the car as much and had a more muted "thump".

Steering: This is where the G20 really improves over the F30. The F30 had the worst steering feel I've ever driven, even compared to a lowly Mazda 3 or even my brother's base Subaru Impreza. It's not insanely sharp like a BRZ/86 but it is what a sports sedan should feel like.

Interior: I'm not the best judge of this, but it seemed fine for what it is. The dash seems bigger now, almost like a FWD car but the rest of the car is very good. Seats are very comfortable and goes down even lower than the F30.

The only thing the F30 has over the G20 is that it's available with a manual transmission. The G20 is a genuinely exciting car that also is well tuned for comfort when needed. It's hard to believe that one car company was responsible for the E46, E90, F30, and G20. Such different cars under the model line. Where as the GTI (I've driven the mk4 and mk7, owned the mk5 and mk6) felt like a steady progression, the 3 series has been more of a roller coaster ride, for better or for worse.

The G20 takes the 3 series out of the nadir reached by the F30, but for me, the looks and the lack of a manual trans is a deal breaker, despite how much better the ZF8 is on the G20.

Thanks for the review. Was the G20 330i loaner a base model (non msport)?

[squelchy451]

Originally Posted by LMK5

Thanks for the review. Was the G20 330i loaner a base model (non msport)?

I think so, not a M-sport version.

[LMK5]

I took an extended test drive in a 2020 330i base today. I currently am in the last month of a 2017 330i base lease. The G20 is better in almost every way. Here are my thoughts:

Interior

It's quieter than my 2017, with less road and wind noise. The beige interior is beautifully done and the sensatec seats are very comfortable and feel like leather. The elimination of the handbrake makes the console layout much cleaner. The AC works much better than my 2017 and the glass does a much better job of keeping heat out of the cabin. The sunroof is large and the wind noise when open is less than my F30. This car had the standard instrument cluster and it appears that the iDrive display is smaller than the one you get when you opt for Live Cockpit Pro. That was a little disappointing. I did like the large round gauges of the standard cluster, however. The overall ergonomics are excellent, but the driver's door arm rest is harder than it should be. The base stereo is fair to acceptable. The empty passenger's seat was rattling slightly over bumps.

The Drive

The car is more stable over uneven roads, recovering more quickly (no dithering) than the F30. Road impacts are felt about the same. The steering is sharper and the cornering is much flatter. Steering tightens up much more at freeway speeds, even in comfort mode. It feels like the G20 doesn't pull as hard off the line and employs earlier 1-2 shifts. I presume this is how they get better gas mileage out of it (36/26 vs. 34/24). Throttle response is about the same as is downshifting speed.

Value

It seems they've done a reasonable job with packaging. I can get a base model in Alpine White with convenience package and heated seats for $44595. My 2017 has leather and HK but no safety features, and it stickered for $49,520. Essentially, the G20 is a larger, better executed car for less money.

Having said all that, I can't for the life of me figure out what option you need in order to get rear cross traffic alert.

[MD707]

Originally Posted by squelchy451

I haven't tried the LCI F30, maybe I do owe it to myself to check that one out to see if they've massaged out the issues, which would be great since I have a soft spot for the 320i--I don't need all the features, just a 6 speed manual, FR layout, and a decent ride quality

I had an F30 340 before this and it was facelift; never had the issues described in the first post and loved that car. B58 sounded fantastic, steering was perfectly acceptable if not ground braking. Drive an F80 and yes, getting back in it feels a bit soft, but it’s meant to.

The G20/21 on the other hand does absolutely kill it in every respect. Better drive, better noise, better tech and the quality and refinement is a step up. It makes the last generation feel very dated.

IMO it doesn’t need a manual, auto with paddles absolutely suits a car of this size. I had a manual E46 330 Sport back in the day and had a real hard time selling it when I was done. And that’s in the UK where everyone learns in a manual 😀

[alpinewhite3]

The F30 was not *that* bad. The G20 has certainly improved in almost every area...most noticeably- chassis / suspension / refinement and overall solidity.

G20 inspires much more confidence when driving it hard than the F30 did.

That being said, BMW did go a bit backwards when increasing the overall dimensions of the vehicle. Despite that, it still feels more agile and nimble than the F30.

This car is still too large IMHO to be considered a proper, fun, tossable "sports" sedan. The GTI may have its drawbacks but it is way more fun to drive than a G20.

[upsidedownfunnel]

Originally Posted by squelchy451

I haven't tried the LCI F30, maybe I do owe it to myself to check that one out to see if they've massaged out the issues, which would be great since I have a soft spot for the 320i--I don't need all the features, just a 6 speed manual, FR layout, and a decent ride quality

The only thing they did was slightly firm up the suspension on the LCI. Unless you have a very early F30 (2012 or early 2013), the steering is the same or imperceptibly different. The stock M Sport suspension on both the pre-LCI and the LCI F30 are too compliant but the LCI is slightly more acceptable. I would go with M Performance suspension for either one though I'd prefer something in between M Sport and M Perf. The G20 M Sport is perfect. Steering is slightly improved, though that may more due to suspension and chassis improvement rather than any actual steering hardware improvements.

In the end, people who claim the LCI is much better are dreaming. I've extensively driven many LCI cars and at best it's a 5% improvement. Not night and day like some people claim. I was very close to picking up a 2017-2018 F30 340i with all the sport options but I decided to wait for the G20/G80 generation to upgrade and save some money. The difference was just not enough. The biggest improvement was the motor and I just decided to tune my N55 and wait for the B85TU1 or the S58. The difference is much bigger on the newer B58s compared to the older 320hp version.

[Ikester19]

Originally Posted by alpinewhite3

The F30 was not *that* bad. The G20 has certainly improved in almost every area...most noticeably- chassis / suspension / refinement and overall solidity.

G20 inspires much more confidence when driving it hard than the F30 did.

That being said, BMW did go a bit backwards when increasing the overall dimensions of the vehicle. Despite that, it still feels more agile and nimble than the F30.

This car is still too large IMHO to be considered a proper, fun, tossable "sports" sedan. The GTI may have its drawbacks but it is way more fun to drive than a G20.

The 3 series can't be compared to a GTI, they are completely different sized cars? Perhaps drive a 1 series as that would be a direct comparison to your GTI.

[alpinewhite3]

Originally Posted by Ikester19

The 3 series can't be compared to a GTI, they are completely different sized cars? Perhaps drive a 1 series as that would be a direct comparison to your GTI.

I guess that was my point...it wasn't always this large. It keeps growing with every generation to the point where physics will ultimately take over. (as it has)

The e46 was only 8 inches longer than the GTI. The G20 is almost 18 inches longer. I'm still wowed by how agile and nimble the G20 is despite it's size.

Unfortunately, we don't get the 1 series hatch here in the states so I can't even compare. The new 2 gran coupe is trash. Which leaves the G20 when cross shopping other 4 door commuter cars like the GTI. I think a perfect garage would be both these vehicles.