[JNW1]

Originally Posted by danorman777

I am not sure this is correct. According to many sources, star marked tyres and modified from non star marked tyres. They have slightly different compounds and construction. There is a YouTube video confirming this from an independent tester.

I think you're right but the only test I've seen on star versus non-star marked tyres was for the PS4S as fitted to the latest M3/M4 (see below). That highlighted how the M-division have slightly different requirements - and confirmed the star marked PS4S uses different compounds - but arguably the benefits are only going to be felt by someone driving relatively quickly in the dry or on a track; the standard PS4S actually offered better grip than the star marked tyre in the wet.

I'd say a more relevant question for most owners is what are the differences between star and non-star marked tyres when you're talking about more non-M cars? The M-division engineers probably have no input or interest in the design of tyres fitted to other than their own cars so it would be interesting to know how star marked tyres for non M-cars differ from those without the star marking; I'm guessing the differences will be less than for the tyres to fit M-cars....

[Charlie (Wessex)]

It seems that the development is not just for M cars, but also track focused. I don't track my car and have no intention of doing so. For normal road use, I suspect you wouldn't notice any difference at all in the dry. And as for the wet, the non star seems better. If I had to choose a tyre that is better in the wet or dry, I'd take wet everyday.

And as for All Season tyres, there are no star marked. So its either full winters or (inappropriate in winter) summers.

I'm now wavering (again) and thinking maybe get another set of rims with Conti TS860s on. THey're supposed to be not too bad when it gets warmer.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by Charlie (Wessex)

It seems that the development is not just for M cars, but also track focused. I don't track my car and have no intention of doing so. For normal road use, I suspect you wouldn't notice any difference at all in the dry. And as for the wet, the non star seems better. If I had to choose a tyre that is better in the wet or dry, I'd take wet everyday.

I agree with all that but we're obviously talking about a tyre aimed at high performance cars with the PS4S and most BMW's don't fall into that category. Therefore, my question is what do star marked tyres aimed at more mainstream models offer over their non-star marked equivalent? Presumably it's not the sort of things the engineers at M-division are looking for (maximum outright grip in the dry, better performance on a track, etc) so what are the differences meant to be?

[4monks]

Originally Posted by Charlie (Wessex)

If I had to choose a tyre that is better in the wet or dry, I'd take wet everyday.

For British weather - absolutely this, particularly when we are talking about a PS4S which in non* form, is hardly shabby in the dry.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by JNW1

I agree with all that but we're obviously talking about a tyre aimed at high performance cars with the PS4S and most BMW's don't fall into that category. Therefore, my question is what do star marked tyres aimed at more mainstream models offer over their non-star marked equivalent? Presumably it's not the sort of things the engineers at M-division are looking for (maximum outright grip in the dry, better performance on a track, etc) so what are the differences meant to be?

Amongst other aspects of specification, can be as simply as including higher levels of uniformity.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Amongst other aspects of specification, can be as simply as including higher levels of conformity.

Conformity in terms of what - size, load rating, speed rating, etc? Perhaps although personally I'd expect tyres to be manufactured to pretty accurate production tolerances - especially from the premium brands - and therefore to be "as advertised" regardless of whether or not they're star marked....

[Scottish0177]

Originally Posted by JNW1

Conformity in terms of what - size, load rating, speed rating, etc? Perhaps although personally I'd expect tyres to be manufactured to pretty accurate production tolerances - especially from the premium brands - and therefore to be "as advertised" regardless of whether or not they're star marked....

Agreed, just how much of a variation in uniformity of manufacturing specs can there be between star and non star marked tyres of the same size, speed rating, load, width etc and especially from the major brands who acknowledge in their own advertisements of their products that they research extensively, test thoroughly and manufacture to a very high level regardless of tyre pricing.
Surely 19 inch is 19 inch
Speed …a v rating regardless of tyre manufacturer would be within v specs and tolerances.
Load again should be the same between makes and pass car industry tests and standards to verify this

I genuinely don’t know but my gut feeling is the star mark for folks in normal cars is a con and just doesn’t make sense to me.

Show me the evidence BMW!

[danorman777]

I agree with all the above.

In an ideal world I would run Summers in Summer and Winters in Winter.

I used to do this on my 5 series and there was probably only one time in the last few years they were really needed. I had another car with all seasons on permanently and needed them once also.

I am interested in all seasons for the cold and wet days here in the South East, but I am slightly nervous with the reports of BMW causing warranty issues with Xdrive cars if you have non star marked tyres?

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by Scottish0177

Agreed, just how much of a variation in uniformity of manufacturing specs can there be between star and non star marked tyres of the same size, speed rating, load, width etc and especially from the major brands who acknowledge in their own advertisements of their products that they research extensively, test thoroughly and manufacture to a very high level regardless of tyre pricing.
Surely 19 inch is 19 inch
Speed …a v rating regardless of tyre manufacturer would be within v specs and tolerances.
Load again should be the same between makes and pass car industry tests and standards to verify this

I genuinely don’t know but my gut feeling is the star mark for folks in normal cars is a con and just doesn’t make sense to me.

Show me the evidence BMW!

Well if BMW's argument is the production tolerances of non-star marked tyres from the premium brands might cause issues with the X-Drive system my response would be the X-Drive system isn't fit for purpose!

But as I said in a previous post, I remain to be convinced BMW have ever rejected a warranty claim purely because a car wasn't running star marked tyres. If someone produces evidence to show otherwise I'll be happy to stand corrected but unless and until that happens I'll view it in the same way as someone claiming to have received a NIP for exceeding the speed limit by 1mph!

[Charlie (Wessex)]

Originally Posted by danorman777

I agree with all the above.

In an ideal world I would run Summers in Summer and Winters in Winter.

I used to do this on my 5 series and there was probably only one time in the last few years they were really needed. I had another car with all seasons on permanently and needed them once also.

I am interested in all seasons for the cold and wet days here in the South East, but I am slightly nervous with the reports of BMW causing warranty issues with Xdrive cars if you have non star marked tyres?

Best not get the Nokians (and others) that BMW sell as winters then, as they're not star marked. How can they sell non star marked tyres if it is potentially going to cause issues?

[Scottish0177]

Originally Posted by Charlie (Wessex)

Best not get the Nokians (and others) that BMW sell as winters then, as they're not star marked. How can they sell non star marked tyres if it is potentially going to cause issues?

I mentioned this very fact previously in a tyre post.

I was surprised by this when I first checked out the BMW wheel configurator as I had thought everything they packaged together would included the star marked tyres, but obviously not.

Wonder if anyone has ever asked for a freedom of information request from BMW with regards warranty and tyres and reasons why warranty work has not been agreed or if anyone has had an answer from BMW HQ or the genius team


Makes a bit of a mockery out of the advice people have had reference you MUST use star approved tyres and just further adds to the confusion on this subject.

From the perspective of someone who is new to BMW and is awaiting delivery of their car, I have to say that I am not overly impressed with BMW communication on various subjects including tyres. I hadn’t even heard of star marked tyres previous to reading this forum and I’m still no clearer as to the real world benefits, not helped by the sparse amount of info from BMW themselves other than their Promotional stuff stating how great they are . No idea how long star marked tyres have been on the go but you would think if its been a while we would by this time know the scoop regarding this mystery. Connect the lack of info to the posts on warranty claims etc and I’ve got to say as a prospective buyer before ordering it did put me of.

My take is that if BMW are using non star marked tyres as shown on their own configurator then if a warranty claim went to court they would find it hard going to justify blaming non star marked tyres as the cause.

[paulockenden]

For me it's not a warranty thing. It's just that I'd prefer to fit star marked tyres if I possibly can.

I see it as a choice rather than an obligation.

[Scottish0177]

Originally Posted by paulockenden

For me it's not a warranty thing. It's just that I'd prefer to fit star marked tyres if I possibly can.

I see it as a choice rather than an obligation.

But that’s what’s confusing people, do owners have an obligation to use star marked tyres and does that directly tie in with any wording in the warranty.

My ideal scenario would be an m340 d touring with non star marked tyres so I have a wider choice to choose from with a full size spare fitted from factory as an option, or at least a space saver.
Up here in Aberdeenshire I’m guessing if I needed to order a new star marked tyre I would be looking at a few days delivery which is no use when you rely on your car, a spare of some description would suit me better than rft’s.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by paulockenden

For me it's not a warranty thing. It's just that I'd prefer to fit star marked tyres if I possibly can.

I see it as a choice rather than an obligation.

Which is fair enough but out of interest why are you making that choice? Do you know something about star marked tyres that makes you think they're a better option or is it more a case of BMW recommends them and you just prefer to play safe?

Genuine question as I've driven BMW's for a lot years and miles and never bothered about seeking out a star marked tyre come replacement time - I've always tended to look at independent tyre reviews and pick the one I've felt best suited to my needs. The X-Drive thing is arguably a bit of a complication but, as I've said previously, I see no reason why tyres from one of the premium brands shouldn't be manufactured to an acceptable tolerance whether star marked or not.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by Scottish0177

But that’s what’s confusing people, do owners have an obligation to use star marked tyres and does that directly tie in with any wording in the warranty.

The handbook states the use of star marked tyres is only a recommendation so by deduction it can't possibly be an obligation. That being the case I don't see BMW would have a leg to stand on if it tried to refuse a warranty claim based purely on the fact non-star marked tyres had been fitted; I also remain to be convinced they've ever attempted to do so!

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by JNW1

The handbook states the use of star marked tyres is only a recommendation so by deduction it can't possibly be an obligation. That being the case I don't see BMW would have a leg to stand on if it tried to refuse a warranty claim based purely on the fact non-star marked tyres had been fitted; I also remain to be convinced they've ever attempted to do so!

I've been around BMW from the beginning of xDrive, long before the UK saw xDrive in our saloons and tourings. X3 & X5 models did show up the limitations and need to take extra care with tyre selection.

There is a history of issues with tyres. Some dealers got it wrong as well. Didn't even realise how sensitive xDrive can be.

I could give an account of a dealer replacing a diff and transfer box, to find it wasn't the issue at all. Then find fitting approved tyres was necessary to get rid of transmission issues. Many Dealers (usually with experience) look at tyres first, before even looking to identify transmission issues with xDrive.

A National Tyre depot refusing to fit anything but approved tyres, even though the only tyres they had were not approved. Due to too many previous issues with xDrive transmission issues, after fitting non approved tyres.

Now whether things are better now, only time will tell, as more users fit their own tyre choice.

User manuals used to quote comments like the following...

The right wheels and tires
BMW recommends that you use only wheel and tire combinations that BMW has tested and approved for your particular vehicle. Variations in factors such as manufacturing tolerances mean that even wheels and tires with identical official size ratings could actually have different dimensions…

The correct wheel/tire combination also affects various systems whose function would otherwise be impaired, eg. ABS, DSC or xDrive.

The manufacturer of your vehicle cannot evaluate non-approved wheels and tires to determine if they are suited for use, and therefore cannot ensure the operating safety of the vehicle if they are mounted.

We can pull those statements apart, but there is engineering influence in those references.

BTW, for those not too familiar with star marked tyres, we've had them for over 15-years.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by paulockenden

I see it as a choice rather than an obligation.

Agree it's a choice.

From my perspective, an informed choice is even better. If it goes pear shaped, at least we know what may have contributed to the problem.

I'm also aware there are possibly 'better' tyres out there, than the OE tyres, which incidentally have had thousands of hours development and honing to the vehicle.

If we choose a different tyre, we are going to make compromises somewhere. Whether most drivers even notice, or are even bothered about the finer nuances of how the OE tyre works on the car, that's another debate.

[DRuw]

you guys seen my post with the reference to the terms of warranty right?
it translates literally to this:
A claim will not be acceptable when:
- bla
- bla
- bla
- non-bmw approved tires are installed.
- etc

off course, you can choose otherwise and install others on your car but if the transfer box fails, guess who's paying..

this will specifically be applicable for xdrives but the statement is general.
My previous F31 I drove with non-stars and was out of warranty anyway but my brand new G21 gets the expensive stuff I'm afraid....

[Charlie (Wessex)]

Originally Posted by DRuw

you guys seen my post with the reference to the terms of warranty right?
it translates literally to this:
A claim will not be acceptable when:
- bla
- bla
- bla
- non-bmw approved tires are installed.
- etc

off course, you can choose otherwise and install others on your car but if the transfer box fails, guess who's paying..

this will specifically be applicable for xdrives but the statement is general.
My previous F31 I drove with non-stars and was out of warranty anyway but my brand new G21 gets the expensive stuff I'm afraid....

did you see my post where BMW UK are selling on the configurator, non star marked tyres?

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Charlie (Wessex)

did you see my post where BMW UK are selling on the configurator, non star marked tyres?

I'm looking... but not getting to listings of non star marked tyres. Am I missing something? Any specific examples?

[marksandygill]

Will anyone in a 320d or probably any other model ever notice the difference between * marked and non * marked - nope

Will non * marked tyres damage a car - nope

Would BMW ever use it as an excuse to refuse a warranty claim - who knows, and as tyres last most people the majority of their 3 year warranty we're probably unlikely to find out!

You'd basically need someone who had changed their tyres and had a serious issue with their car within the first 3 years

[Scottish0177]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I'm looking... but not getting to listings of non star marked tyres. Am I missing something? Any specific examples?

Just had another look at the wheel configurator

Based on the 796 18" black wheels under winter tab, the only tyre that shows up as star marked is the Pirelli winter sottozero 3 RF, everything else does not show the star mark symbol against the tyre type index

unless i'm missing something