[bmnut]

Originally Posted by Charlie (Wessex)

did you see my post where BMW UK are selling on the configurator, non star marked tyres?

I've seen that too Charlie, I'm just wondering what the configurator states is /are available for the car when you search against the VIN of the car, in other words model specific for say an M340i Xdrive?

I've followed this thread since it's inception and so far kept out of the discussion, until now perhaps!
Personally I've never used anything other than * rated tyres on all my previous BMWs ever since their inception, purely by personal choice and probably because I didn't want to get into any potential future arguments with the dealer if any problems manifested themselves as a result of using non * marked tyres, the relatively small percentage increase in cost of * rated over non * rated has never really bothered me either. Peace of mind often comes with some financial outlay!
At times I too have experienced some difficulty in obtaining * rated ones so can fully understand the argument for going to the non * rated option.
Like many others I fail to see any difference in everyday 'real world', 'non track use' driving response (my own car getting on a track is never going to happen!) and I agree the need for 'homologated' bespoke tyres is more of an argument for much higher performance models in BMW's range of vehicles.
I reckon that provided all four tyres are the same, namely * rated or not is probably the most important factor that could potentially affect cars fitted with Xdrive, notwithstanding the more generous tolerances in production between individual tyres from a manufacturer as opposed to the claimed tighter tolerances that are applied to the homologated version.
The discussion appears to relate more to the type of tyre people are wanting to fit to their vehicles, specifically all weather tyres not being * rated. As Highland Pete mentioned earlier BMW were slow to endorse the fitment of winter tyres not that long ago although they now seem to have got their head around the benefit of them if people's individual circumstances warrant their use. The cynic in me says maybe they (BMW) are holding back with regard to all weather tyres because it doesn't require the purchase of an additional set of rims for the summer/winter two sets of wheels and tyres and the potential for reduced revenue from sales that would no longer be forthcoming!
I would certainly consider all weather tyres for both my car and my wife's 2 series for where we live here in the North East but for the time being I'm holding off to see if any become available as * rated ones!

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Scottish0177

Just had another look at the wheel configurator

Based on the 796 18" black wheels under winter tab, the only tyre that shows up as star marked is the Pirelli winter sottozero 3 RF, everything else does not show the star mark symbol against the tyre type index

unless i'm missing something

I'm still not finding non OE tyres being sold on the BMW outlets. When I cross reference part numbers, I come back to OE tyres.

Can someone post a link to an example where the tyres are definitively not OE spec.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by marksandygill

Will anyone in a 320d or probably any other model ever notice the difference between * marked and non * marked - nope

Will non * marked tyres damage a car - nope

Would BMW ever use it as an excuse to refuse a warranty claim - who knows, and as tyres last most people the majority of their 3 year warranty we're probably unlikely to find out!

You'd basically need someone who had changed their tyres and had a serious issue with their car within the first 3 years

I agree most users will not note any discernible difference between generic and OE tyres.

In the context of this topic, xDrive is my concern, not the 10/10th performance benefit.

Warranty... BMW have wriggle room, even in the T&Cs.

As posted from the Netherlands warranty document, it is defined. BMW UK is more vague.

Exclusion of Warranty: Netherlands

Warranty claim does not exist if:- ... tyres not recommended by BMW are fitted;-

NEW CAR WARRANTY GUIDELINES. UK

– An Authorised BMW Centre reserves the right to reject any claim where the cause of the defect is due to non compliance with the service intervals recommended by the Manufacturer and or the Manufacturer’s recommendations for care and maintenance of the vehicle.

Loads of wiggle room in that clause where "manufacturer's recommendations" is used.

[marksandygill]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I agree most users will not note any discernible difference between generic and OE tyres.

In the context of this topic, xDrive is my concern, not the 10/10th performance benefit.

Warranty... BMW have wriggle room, even in the T&Cs.

As posted from the Netherlands warranty document, it is defined. BMW UK is more vague.

Loads of wiggle room in that clause where "manufacturer's recommendations" is used.

Unfortunately, the only people that really know if the * marked tyres make a difference, especially to the xdrive are BMW and the Dealers, who will tell you that you should fit the * marked ones because they make more money out of it...

[bmnut]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I agree most users will not note any discernible difference between generic and OE tyres.

In the context of this topic, xDrive is my concern, not the 10/10th performance benefit.

Warranty... BMW have wriggle room, even in the T&Cs.

As posted from the Netherlands warranty document, it is defined. BMW UK is more




, Loads of wiggle room in that clause where "manufacturer's recommendations" is used.

Agree with you on this Pete, especially with regard to Xdrive. Never having had Xdrive before I have to say I’m wary of possible potential problems so I’ll stick with * rated for the foreseeable future.

[bmnut]

Originally Posted by marksandygill

Unfortunately, the only people that really know if the * marked tyres make a difference, especially to the xdrive are BMW and the Dealers, who will tell you that you should fit the * marked ones because they make more money out of it...

Fair point, but realistically how much more money do they actually make out of us?

[marksandygill]

Originally Posted by bmnut

Fair point, but realistically how much more money do they actually make out of us?

No idea, but BMW sell about 2.5 million new cars a year so 10 million tyres on new cars alone!

You guarantee a certain manufacturer that business and future 'recommended' sales, even at a few quid a tyre that adds up!

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by bmnut

Agree with you on this Pete, especially with regard to Xdrive. Never having had Xdrive before I have to say I’m wary of possible potential problems so I’ll stick with * rated for the foreseeable future.

It wasn't uncommon for users to fit generic tyres to X3 & X5 models, and within miles find the transmission wasn't smooth any more. Only remedy was to put OE tyres back on. Some would find the problems came first, wear in the transfer box. Often too late to remedy with the correct tyres.

This issue has continued with xDrive examples, through to the present. F-series models have not been free of issues. We will see in time, if G-series are immune from problems.

I post my son's experience (which I have posted before) with his E83 X3 35d on 19" staggered wheels.

The E83 X3 was particularly susceptible to tyre selection. My son had a situation where the * marked tyres were out of stock nationwide. The only * marked front tyres in the country were available from BMW Direct. Our local National Tyres depot had a pair of non marked tyres of the same dimension. The manager wouldn't fit them, even if my son wanted him to, he said he had witnessed too many issues with the transfer box due to tyres, policy was "star marked only". He was willing to fit approved tyres, if my son could find them anywhere. I looked into it at the time, to see what could be adrift with the generic sizing. I recall to keep to BMW tolerances for the staggered setup, no way could the star marked tyre be to generic dimensions, BMW had a unique tyre sizing to suit the xDrive.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by marksandygill

Unfortunately, the only people that really know if the * marked tyres make a difference, especially to the xdrive are BMW and the Dealers, who will tell you that you should fit the * marked ones because they make more money out of it...

See my post which includes reference to National Tyres.

[marksandygill]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

See my post which includes reference to National Tyres.

Don't doubt that in the slightest, I had a punctured rear on a 4 series xdrive a couple of years ago and quickfit wanted to fit a non * marked tyre, BMW said no we wont authorise that, you'll wait for 2 new rear * marked tyres!

[Scottish0177]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I'm still not finding non OE tyres being sold on the BMW outlets. When I cross reference part numbers, I come back to OE tyres.

Can someone post a link to an example where the tyres are definitively not OE spec.

https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/topics/owne...and-tyres.html

select your model, year etc in dropdown boxes, it will bring up wheels available, select winter and it brings up wheel and tyre packages.
listed against each package is the tyre type which will show symbols specific to that tyre.
only the sottozero package has a star against it from the index

i have mentioned winter wheels as that what i was interested in but looking through the other wheel tyre packages there are few star marked tyres showing

[Charlie (Wessex)]

From the handbook...

Winter tyres are recommended if driving in winter conditions. Although tyres known as all-season tyres with an M+S label have better winter characteristics that summer tyres, they do not normally match the performance of winter tyres.

What are winter conditions? Temperature, snow, ice etc etc. With our temperate maritime climate, do we get "winter conditions" very often?

And the bit about "do not normally match the performance of winter tyres" that's pretty meaningless if you don't quantify it.

Simple fact is, during the winter months, for many/most of us in the UK, an all-season tyre will out perform a summer and a winter tyre.

As for how the xDrive system would handle a non-recommended tyre, would it really be that much different to 4Motion (which I know uses a Haldex system). Never heard of any issues with non-recommended tyres causing an issue. TBH this is the first time I've ever heard of non-OEM marked tyres causing (potential) issues.

Personally (and that is all it can be), I am more than happy to ditch the RFTs and fit a pair of non star marked all-seasons, which is exactly what will be happening next week as order the CC+ all round this morning. I note BMW's recommendation, but unless they specifically say ONLY STAR MARKED......I'll take my chances.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Scottish0177

https://www.bmw.co.uk/en/topics/owne...and-tyres.html

select your model, year etc in dropdown boxes, it will bring up wheels available, select winter and it brings up wheel and tyre packages.
listed against each package is the tyre type which will show symbols specific to that tyre.
only the sottozero package has a star against it from the index

i have mentioned winter wheels as that what i was interested in but looking through the other wheel tyre packages there are few star marked tyres showing

I don't get any drop down boxes, every link takes me to BMW's eBay shop. The wheel options I try gives me EO tyres.

Definitely missing something...

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I don't get any drop down boxes, every link takes me to BMW's eBay shop. The wheel options I try gives me EO tyres.

Definitely missing something...

Is this giving me the problem?

A NEW HOME (FOR NOW).
We are currently giving the BMW Shop a refresh. In the meantime, you can still browse the latest BMW Wheels and Tyres on the official BMW eBay and Amazon sites; or if you prefer, by contacting your local BMW Centre. Enjoy browsing.

[Scottish0177]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I don't get any drop down boxes, every link takes me to BMW's eBay shop. The wheel options I try gives me EO tyres.

Definitely missing something...

Just tried the link i've posted to you, its working from my side

First page you get is an image of a shiny new white BMW, this page has a box with accessories configurator,,click on that if you see it. dont go directly to ebay shop etc

[bmnut]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I don't get any drop down boxes, every link takes me to BMW's eBay shop. The wheel options I try gives me EO tyres.

Definitely missing something...

Tap on Scottish’s link above and when it comes up tap on accessories configurator, think that’s what he means?!

[Scottish0177]

Originally Posted by bmnut

Tap on Scottish’s link above and when it comes up tap on accessories configurator, think that’s what he means?!

Yep, just amended my reply. click on accessories configurator

[bmnut]

Originally Posted by marksandygill

No idea, but BMW sell about 2.5 million new cars a year so 10 million tyres on new cars alone!

You guarantee a certain manufacturer that business and future 'recommended' sales, even at a few quid a tyre that adds up!

Sorry wasn’t meaning that, my mistake! Meant the cost difference between * and non * rated for a particular tyre! Just checked my front size Turanza T005’s and the difference is about £18 per tyre, not much more than my monthly haircut!
Had to have my RNS replaced at 1500 miles due to a puncture 30 miles from home so needed a new tyre, local dealer supplied and fitted the * rated T005 for £185 all in price matched against local kwikfit which I didn’t think was too bad personally?

[bmnut]

Originally Posted by Scottish0177

Yep, just amended my reply. click on accessories configurator

All this tap on this and tap on that! Why do they have to make things so complicated? I’m a child of the sixties for heaven’s sake!

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I agree most users will not note any discernible difference between generic and OE tyres.

In the context of this topic, xDrive is my concern, not the 10/10th performance benefit.

Warranty... BMW have wriggle room, even in the T&Cs.

As posted from the Netherlands warranty document, it is defined. BMW UK is more vague.

Quote:
Exclusion of Warranty: Netherlands

Warranty claim does not exist if:- ... tyres not recommended by BMW are fitted;-

Quote:
NEW CAR WARRANTY GUIDELINES. UK

– An Authorised BMW Centre reserves the right to reject any claim where the cause of the defect is due to non compliance with the service intervals recommended by the Manufacturer and or the Manufacturer’s recommendations for care and maintenance of the vehicle.




Loads of wiggle room in that clause where "manufacturer's recommendations" is used.

Looking in my warranty booklet I can't find an equivalent of the Dutch clause but I do agree there's a caveat around refusing a warranty claim if BMW's recommendations for care and maintenance haven't been followed and the defect which is the subject of the claim has been caused as a result of not following those recommendations.

So on that basis BMW could refuse a claim for (say) a transfer box on an X-Drive car that didn't have star marked tyres fitted but in order to do so they'd also have demonstrate it was the non-star marked tyres that caused the problem. Assuming the tyres fitted were of notionally the correct size - and therefore in theory the correct rolling circumference - I'd have thought the only justification BMW could have for declining the claim would be the non-star marked tyres aren't manufactured to the same tolerance and therefore aren't actually the correct size even though notionally they are. If that's their position - and a small difference in production tolerance on tyre size can genuinely cause significant problems - that has me thinking the X-Drive system isn't fit for purpose.

However, my experience is BMW don't take this approach. Apologies I've recounted this before on other threads but my F31 335d needed a replacement front differential at around 60k miles; the car wasn't on star marked tyres and that was known to BMW as it had been noted at both services and vehicle health checks. However, despite that the defective component was replaced without question under the extended BMW warranty. Now I accept that's only a sample of one but it doesn't suggest BMW are looking to avoid warranty claims on X-Drive components purely because a car's running non-star marked tyres; if they were they had the perfect excuse to reject my claim but the work was done under warranty without discussion.

So I still think a lot of the "you must use star marked tyres or your warranty's likely to be invalid" is scaremongering. I do however accept you potentially run more of a risk with X-Drive which is just another reason why I wish BMW offered the M340i as RWD in the UK!

[Charlie (Wessex)]

For those of us struggling with the drop down boxes....... For the M340i G21 the non starred tyres BMW themselves are offering...

225/45/18 Michelin PS4 (ZP)
225/45/18 Goodyear Eagle F1 Assy. ROF
255/40/18 Michelin PS4
225/40/19 Pirelli P-Zero RSC
255/35/19 Pirelli P-Zero RSC
225/40/19 Michelin PS4S
255/35/19 Michelin PS4S
----
225/50/17 Pirelli Winter Ice
225/50/17 Conti Viking Contact
225/50/17 Conti Ice Contact
225/45/18 Conti Viking Contact
225/45/18 Conti Ice Contact
225/45/18 Nokian HKPL R3
225/45/18 Nokian HKPL 9

Those are the tyres listed, and I think cover most or all of the range of 3 series. Whether some should have a star mark I don't know. Just going by the configurator.

With the Eagle F1, not sure what ROF means, as the non ROF is starred as are the 19" ROF version. With the PS4S, I thought that they were star marked, but maybe not in that size.

[Charlie (Wessex)]

PS - found this post from a few months back... https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...43&postcount=6