[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Charlie (Wessex)

I put winters on my E61, and didn't even think about star marked. They were Yokohama W.Drive V901 (IIRC). Never had any issues. And as I used to get a puncture a month, I decided to go for a good valued tyre. Kumho KU39 which did a job. Did 130k miles without issue.

I went ahead and fitted Vredestein Wintrac Xtreme, excellent tyre and recommended by a German forum member, who was driving an E60 535d between the UK and Germany.

Had them fitted at our local National Tyres. Manager, a Polish guy, commented as I got them out of the boot, "see you have one of the best winter tyres". He rated them very highly.

[paulockenden]

There’s a German BMW dealer that sells winter wheels via eBay.

I was looking at a package but noticed small print at the end of the listing that said “Not for the 3 Series PHEV”.

So there are some very model specific rules, beyond what you see on the online accessories configurator.

[Scottish0177]

Originally Posted by paulockenden

There’s a German BMW dealer that sells winter wheels via eBay.

I was looking at a package but noticed small print at the end of the listing that said “Not for the 3 Series PHEV”.

So there are some very model specific rules, beyond what you see on the online accessories configurator.

Of course there is, this is BMW we are talking about

It seems to me that if you asked them what colour they preferred, black or white, the answer they would give would have you scratching you’re head in confusion

This subject about tyres, warranties etc could be put to rest by BMW being open and honest. RFT tyres have been out for a while as have star marked tyres so to still be discussing what as a customer we are allowed is ridiculous.

How difficult is it for them to say something along the lines of….if you use anything other than star marked approved tyres then you void warranty…..

Not impressed and I don’t even have a car yet.

[bmnut]

Originally Posted by Scottish0177

Of course there is, this is BMW we are talking about

It seems to me that if you asked them what colour they preferred, black or white, the answer they would give would have you scratching you’re head in confusion

This subject about tyres, warranties etc could be put to rest by BMW being open and honest. RFT tyres have been out for a while as have star marked tyres so to still be discussing what as a customer we are allowed is ridiculous.

How difficult is it for them to say something along the lines of….if you use anything other than star marked approved tyres then you void warranty…..

Not impressed and I don’t even have a car yet.

Having owned BMWs almost exclusively for nearly forty years now and for a ten year period from 2009 to 2018 worked for/with BMW UK on a sub-contracted basis it never fails to amaze me how reticent they are at sharing information and the arrogance they display around their secretiveness. They have got to be amongst the most unhelpful companies out there and their Customer Service by and large is pretty useless.
This probably sounds like pretty harsh criticism but the fact is it’s based on personal experience over many years.
I’ve had far better feedback and much more committed interest in past problems from the dealers and if you can establish a good ‘working relationship’ with one that is worth it’s weight in gold almost.
……The thing is I’ve found their products just so damned good over the years I still keep buying them despite the company’s shortcomings!

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by bmnut

Having owned BMWs almost exclusively for nearly forty years now and for a ten year period from 2009 to 2018 worked for/with BMW UK on a sub-contracted basis it never fails to amaze me how reticent they are at sharing information and the arrogance they display around their secretiveness. They have got to be amongst the most unhelpful companies out there and their Customer Service by and large is pretty useless.
This probably sounds like pretty harsh criticism but the fact is it’s based on personal experience over many years.
I’ve had far better feedback and much more committed interest in past problems from the dealers and if you can establish a good ‘working relationship’ with one that is worth it’s weight in gold almost.
……The thing is I’ve found their products just so damned good over the years I still keep buying them despite the company’s shortcomings!

Very similar sentiments with long term BMW ownership.

Getting through to the right person can sometimes help, but there is definitely an arrogance, certainly on initial approach when you challenge their responses.

Problem with the written word, they have to cage it, due to liabilities and interpretation.

I'm currently in dispute over the T&Cs for the extended warranty. BMW won't answer simple questions, what appears in print is not interpreted that way 'between' all those involved. The warranty department have washed their hands of it, total arrogance. The only way forward is using the Financial Ombudsman for clarification.

I've had a similar challenge with Bosch, over a washer/dryer. Had to take the issue to top level (CEO office) as the technical department was so arrogant and contradicted all the written data and the user manual. The specific model (two different machines) had a design/software fault, period. Service engineer replaced parts, performed specific tests which failed, and still the technical department said there was nothing wrong with the machines. Bosch never admitted there were issues, (that would open a can of worms), but offered an upgrade to a different model. Many of the same components, has worked faultlessly as expected.

What I have noticed with BMW, they used to be more specific years ago, even on technical points/advice, that is now diluted, often vague.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by Scottish0177

This subject about tyres, warranties etc could be put to rest by BMW being open and honest. RFT tyres have been out for a while as have star marked tyres so to still be discussing what as a customer we are allowed is ridiculous.

How difficult is it for them to say something along the lines of….if you use anything other than star marked approved tyres then you void warranty…..

My take on this is if you're really concerned about compromising your warranty - and want to eliminate any possibility of BMW using the tyres to refuse a claim - then stick to star marked tyres and make sure they're the correct specification for your vehicle (size, speed rating, load rating, etc). However, my experience - and those of at least one other who's posted on the subject - is that, even on a car with X-drive, BMW won't refuse a claim purely because non-star marked tyres have been used.

Providing the correct size, speed rating and load rating has been fitted I can't see how non-star marked tyres could cause a component failure on a RWD car and even with X-drive the only excuse would be the manufacturing tolerance isn't tight enough and that could cause differences in rolling circumference that the system can't cope with. However, we've seen the post regarding EU legislation on tyre tolerances so I can't see BMW wanting to go down that route (plus of course it would potentially prompt some uncomfortable questions about the design of their 4WD system if it can't cope with tyres made by premium tyre manufacturers).

So personally I'll do what I've always done when replacing tyres which is to look at what I want from the tyre and then use independent reviews to point me in the direction of which one is likely to be best suited to my needs. If the solution is star marked then fine but if it's not that's also fine as far as I'm concerned; I will however make sure the set conforms to BMW's specification for my car in terms of size, speed rating and load rating.

[Keith_C]

5 pages of this now and has anyone any evidence of warranty claims being refused based on non star marked tyres being used?

The manual clearly states 'recommended' tyres.

Been a BMW owner for nigh on 20 years and never once had a warranty claimed refused and I have never purchased and probably never will, a star marked tyre.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by Keith_C

5 pages of this now and has anyone any evidence of warranty claims being refused based on non star marked tyres being used?

The manual clearly states 'recommended' tyres.

Been a BMW owner for nigh on 20 years and never once had a warranty claimed refused and I have never purchased and probably never will, a star marked tyre.

What we seem to have is rumour to the effect generic tyres are not to the same dimensions as the star marked equivalents and the looser tolerances associated with the generic tyres might be enough to upset the X-drive system. But no, as far as I'm aware we have no evidence of BMW refusing a warranty claim based purely on the fact star marked tyres weren't fitted; we do however have evidence of them paying warranty claims without question even though non-star marked tyres were being used....

I've been in the BMW ownership camp for almost as long as you and my experience is the same as yours; I've never fitted star marked tyres come replacement time and have never had a warranty claim refused (including one which related to the drivetrain on an X-drive car which is where the use of non-star marked tyres is most likely to be an issue).

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Keith_C

5 pages of this now and has anyone any evidence of warranty claims being refused based on non star marked tyres being used?

I've heard and read of cases in the past. Definitely aware BMW can ask for the tyres to be checked when xDrive transmission issues are investigated.

Here's a post on this forum... True or not... who knows.

Hi Guys,

My friend owns a tyre fitting garage and I was in today to get some tyres replaced. I was looking to put Pirelli’s on but he told me to replace like for like (Bridgestone) as BMW invalidate the warranty if their approved tyres aren’t put on. I laughed this off and thought he was having a joke but he said he has had 4 customers who put claims in for other issues (suspension etc) and the first question they asked is what tyres where on the car, as they weren’t BMW star marked that their warranty was invalid.

Has anyone come across this before?

The Pirelli’s are more expensive than the Bridgestone so it’s not like he is trying to make more money?

Opinions welcome.

https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showp...04&postcount=1

[Charlie (Wessex)]

I do note on the My BMW App, the tyres bit lists:

Manufacturer
Model
Size
Season
BMW Star marked type

Quite how the app knows I do not know. Suspect it doesn't not least as 3 are saying correctly, and the 4th has no details and says "no" to Star Marked (when it is), but I will find out next week when the Cros Climate go on. Happy to be Guinea pig.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I've heard and read of cases in the past. Definitely aware BMW can ask for the tyres to be checked when xDrive transmission issues are investigated.

Here's a post on this forum... True or not... who knows.



https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showp...04&postcount=1

I appreciate you're simply relating in good faith what has been posted on another forum but we have people on this very forum - including me - who've made successful claims under the BMW warranty for driveline issues on X-Drive cars even though they were running non-star marked tyres. Unfortunately I've not kept the paperwork relating to my F31 335d so I can't post any documentation to support what I'm saying; however, I can assure you the front differential was replaced under warranty without question even though the car wasn't on star marked tyres!

And if we're talking about suspension components also potentially falling foul of this I had both the rear springs on my E46 M3 replaced under extended warranty even though by that time the car was on Vredestein Ultrac Sessantas rather than the original equipment Michelin Pilot Sports. This would have been about 11 or 12 years ago now and I can't honestly remember whether star marking had been introduced back then; however, the Vredesteins certainly weren't a BMW approved tyre but it didn't cause any problems whatsoever with the warranty claim.

A lot of the stories I've seen about warranties being invalid have related to X5's and X3's so I wonder if this was more a thing with vehicles that had the earlier versions of the X-Drive system?

[HighlandPete]

I'm also aware of users having work under warranty with different tyres, aftermarket suspension parts, etc. Been there myself, so not in anyway saying a non star marked tyre automatically invalidates warranty work. In fact when I had new front springs under the extended warranty, both occasions I was on my Vredestein tyres and Koni FSD dampers fitted.

Originally Posted by JNW1

A lot of the stories I've seen about warranties being invalid have related to X5's and X3's so I wonder if this was more a thing with vehicles that had the earlier versions of the X-Drive system?

Sure the whole xDrive tyre issue is based on the past examples. At the same time some dealers had no idea of the tyre issue. I know of one account where the dealer fitted a new diff and then a transfer box under warranty. They had sold the X3 as a AUC vehicle with non approved tyres. Only after the warranty work failed to cure the problem did they realise the issue was caused by tyres. Had to fit an approved set to get the transmission to stop juddering.

The difference these days, most dealers (and BMW UK) have experience and know "where to start" with typical xDrive transmission issues.

My posts, comments, reasoning, is for users to make a choice with "eyes wide open".

[Scottish0177]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I'm also aware of users having work under warranty with different tyres, aftermarket suspension parts, etc. Been there myself, so not in anyway saying a non star marked tyre automatically invalidates warranty work. In fact when I had new front springs under the extended warranty, both occasions I was on my Vredestein tyres and Koni FSD dampers fitted.



Sure the whole xDrive tyre issue is based on the past examples. At the same time some dealers had no idea of the tyre issue. I know of one account where the dealer fitted a new diff and then a transfer box under warranty. They had sold the X3 as a AUC vehicle with non approved tyres. Only after the warranty work failed to cure the problem did they realise the issue was caused by tyres. Had to fit an approved set to get the transmission to stop juddering.

The difference these days, most dealers (and BMW UK) have experience and know "where to start" with typical xDrive transmission issues.

My posts, comments, reasoning, is for users to make a choice with "eyes wide open".

My last post on this topic I promise, but surely BMW by the very fact that they go to the bother of homologation of tyres too match specific characteristics of their cars would be better of clarifying the situation completely once and for all by stating in no uncertain terms that owners should only use star marked tyres.
We would all know where we stand then
Thanks to everyone for chipping in though, great forum

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Sure the whole xDrive tyre issue is based on the past examples. At the same time some dealers had no idea of the tyre issue. I know of one account where the dealer fitted a new diff and then a transfer box under warranty. They had sold the X3 as a AUC vehicle with non approved tyres. Only after the warranty work failed to cure the problem did they realise the issue was caused by tyres. Had to fit an approved set to get the transmission to stop juddering.

Obviously I don't know the detail of the example you're quoting but if this AUC had tyres with different levels of wear front to rear then that might have been the problem (and would have been a problem regardless of whether or not the tyres were star marked). Yes putting a brand new set of tyres on would solve the problem but that might equally have applied if the new tyres been non-star rated.

My F31 335d did most of the 80k miles I had it on non-star tyres but, as the transmission never juddered, I find it hard to believe the lack of a star rating was the sole cause of the problems with the X3 you mention. If it was perhaps the model in question had an older generation X-drive system that was more tyre sensitive?

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

My posts, comments, reasoning, is for users to make a choice with "eyes wide open".

I'm all for helping people make informed decisions but I think part of that is giving a realistic view on the likely outcomes. Yes if you read the small print of BMW's warranty they could seek to deny a warranty claim based on a car not having star rated tyres but my experience is they're not looking to do that (and that actually seems to be your own personal experience as well?).

Of course it's reasonable to draw attention to the worst case scenario but (IMO) that should be accompanied by some context around the probability of it happening. Reading some of the threads on this subject you could be excused for thinking the use of non-star tyres is a cast iron guarantee that BMW will invalidate your warranty but it really isn't!

[bmnut]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Very similar sentiments with long term BMW ownership.

Getting through to the right person can sometimes help, but there is definitely an arrogance, certainly on initial approach when you challenge their responses.

Problem with the written word, they have to cage it, due to liabilities and interpretation.

I'm currently in dispute over the T&Cs for the extended warranty. BMW won't answer simple questions, what appears in print is not interpreted that way 'between' all those involved. The warranty department have washed their hands of it, total arrogance. The only way forward is using the Financial Ombudsman for clarification.

I've had a similar challenge with Bosch, over a washer/dryer. Had to take the issue to top level (CEO office) as the technical department was so arrogant and contradicted all the written data and the user manual. The specific model (two different machines) had a design/software fault, period. Service engineer replaced parts, performed specific tests which failed, and still the technical department said there was nothing wrong with the machines. Bosch never admitted there were issues, (that would open a can of worms), but offered an upgrade to a different model. Many of the same components, has worked faultlessly as expected.

What I have noticed with BMW, they used to be more specific years ago, even on technical points/advice, that is now diluted, often vague.

I too agree with this Pete. Exactly the same as I have found in the main with BMW. The only thing that restores my faith in getting an explanation these days is a couple of members of the service department of my local chosen dealership who are prepared to take the time and effort to sit down with me and answer my questions and explain any issues at my request.

[bmnut]

Originally Posted by JNW1

My take on this is if you're really concerned about compromising your warranty - and want to eliminate any possibility of BMW using the tyres to refuse a claim - then stick to star marked tyres and make sure they're the correct specification for your vehicle (size, speed rating, load rating, etc). However, my experience - and those of at least one other who's posted on the subject - is that, even on a car with X-drive, BMW won't refuse a claim purely because non-star marked tyres have been used.

Providing the correct size, speed rating and load rating has been fitted I can't see how non-star marked tyres could cause a component failure on a RWD car and even with X-drive the only excuse would be the manufacturing tolerance isn't tight enough and that could cause differences in rolling circumference that the system can't cope with. However, we've seen the post regarding EU legislation on tyre tolerances so I can't see BMW wanting to go down that route (plus of course it would potentially prompt some uncomfortable questions about the design of their 4WD system if it can't cope with tyres made by premium tyre manufacturers).

So personally I'll do what I've always done when replacing tyres which is to look at what I want from the tyre and then use independent reviews to point me in the direction of which one is likely to be best suited to my needs. If the solution is star marked then fine but if it's not that's also fine as far as I'm concerned; I will however make sure the set conforms to BMW's specification for my car in terms of size, speed rating and load rating.

That sums it up nicely JNW 1. Our lives are full of choices and at the end of the day we will all make our own informed ones!

[bmnut]

Originally Posted by Keith_C

5 pages of this now and has anyone any evidence of warranty claims being refused based on non star marked tyres being used?

The manual clearly states 'recommended' tyres.

Been a BMW owner for nigh on 20 years and never once had a warranty claimed refused and I have never purchased and probably never will, a star marked tyre.

Like you Keith, I personally haven’t heard of anyone being refused a warranty claim surrounding this issue but I shall certainly be asking at my local dealership if others have experienced a problem in the past.

[bmnut]

Originally Posted by Charlie (Wessex)

I do note on the My BMW App, the tyres bit lists:

Manufacturer
Model
Size
Season
BMW Star marked type

Quite how the app knows I do not know. Suspect it doesn't not least as 3 are saying correctly, and the 4th has no details and says "no" to Star Marked (when it is), but I will find out next week when the Cros Climate go on. Happy to be Guinea pig.

The BMW app says exactly the same for my car as it does for yours in my case it’s down to my rear nearside tyre having been replaced with a new one, exactly the same as the factory fitted original and * marked as it happens. I’m assuming the dealer is responsible for updating that information in the car so it shows in the app?

[bmnut]

Originally Posted by Scottish0177

My last post on this topic I promise, but surely BMW by the very fact that they go to the bother of homologation of tyres too match specific characteristics of their cars would be better of clarifying the situation completely once and for all by stating in no uncertain terms that owners should only use star marked tyres.
We would all know where we stand then
Thanks to everyone for chipping in though, great forum

Yes it is a great forum for promoting healthy discussion on all subjects not just this one which has probably run its course now!
I’m sure we all feel better informed on this issue relating to tyres to decide for ourselves what suits us best as individuals!

[Keith_C]

Originally Posted by JNW1

And if we're talking about suspension components also potentially falling foul of this I had both the rear springs on my E46 M3 replaced under extended warranty even though by that time the car was on Vredestein Ultrac Sessantas rather than the original equipment Michelin Pilot Sports. This would have been about 11 or 12 years ago now and I can't honestly remember whether star marking had been introduced back then; however, the Vredesteins certainly weren't a BMW approved tyre but it didn't cause any problems whatsoever with the warranty claim.

Lol, I had rear springs replaced under warranty on my E46 M3, they have a habit of snapping, and I was running Vredesteins.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by bmnut

Yes it is a great forum for promoting healthy discussion on all subjects not just this one which has probably run its course now!
I’m sure we all feel better informed on this issue relating to tyres to decide for ourselves what suits us best as individuals!

On a positive note. Let's hope the latest ATC13 transfer box, as used in the general G-series models, with its advanced oil and thermal management is going to give longevity and better reliability anyway. I also note the thermal load is further reduced by 'over-opening' of the clutch pack.

Modified version of the ATC13 in the latest G80/82 M-cars has even greater cooling features in the clutch pack.

[bmnut]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

On a positive note. Let's hope the latest ATC13 transfer box, as used in the general G-series models, with its advanced oil and thermal management is going to give longevity and better reliability anyway. I also note the thermal load is further reduced by 'over-opening' of the clutch pack.

Modified version of the ATC13 in the latest G80/82 M-cars has even greater cooling features in the clutch pack.

That’s very interesting to note Pete and augers well that the current crop of transfer boxes are more robust and less susceptible to being damaged. Only time will tell I suppose.