[cyam]

Thanks so much for your insight. Real-world tested feedback. I appreciate that.

So I'd be happy to try the Project Mu pads. I don't track the car, so pads last a long time, thus the decision is a serious one otherwise I am stuck with pads I don't like for a long time, or have to ditch them and try something else (which I have done before).

The Project Mu pads you use for the street are PS pads. They seem like ceramic pads with no metal in them. You find them strong enough for the occasional spirited driving?

I would guess they'd work really well from stone cold, as opposed to other more track focused pads (with metal) which, when cold may require more pedal pressure.

That's the main issue I am trying to avoid - I would love a higher temp pad but that doesn't require extra pedal pressure when stone cold, because on a road car they are pretty much always cold, except in some spirited driving.

I'd guess that pads like HC+ would not be as good cold.

Originally Posted by Z K

As for pads I have used,

I currently run Project Mu pads on my street car and track day car. They have a wide range of pads from street to race day. They have been building enthusiast brake applications for over 30 years and continue to introduce new compounds for specialty applications. Official brake pads for use in Super GT racing series, WRC, GT86 Cup car racing and other racing series. They have many "hybrid" street/track compounds that can actually be used for both with little drawbacks.

I have run Endless pads as well. They are similar to Project Mu but at a higher price point. Porsche uses Endless for their race cars. Both Endless and Project Mu are high quality and 100% made in Japan.

Ran Ferodo, not recommended, outdated pad compounds. They'll recommend DS2500 pads for everything (its a 40 year old brake compound) and it is neither good for street or track.

Ran Stoptech, the Sport pads work very good. Like a DS2500 but newer and better with less noise and dust. Do not get the Stoptech Street as they're rebranded Centric pads.

Ran Carbotech, good track day compounds. Their street stuff is ok but the XP line of track day pads are excellent with high torque. They don't eat wheels and paint unlike many other track only pads.

Have not run Counterspace Garage but recommended for track use. It's a newer California company with a few good track day compounds. Run by many on track days.

Ran Hawk and Brembo pads before... not impressed.

Here's my current collection of brake pads that will eventually find their way onto my cars. There's a few thousand dollars in brake pads here to be used and tried.

I have 3 BMWs - 1 regularly tracked. I'll eat through a set of brake pads every 2-3 months from track use @ $300-500 per set. So I go through pads a lot. Japanese pads for European applications are special order so I order them in batches so I always have extra pads ready.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by cyam

Thanks so much for your insight. Real-world tested feedback. I appreciate that.

So I'd be happy to try the Project Mu pads. I don't track the car, so pads last a long time, thus the decision is a serious one otherwise I am stuck with pads I don't like for a long time, or have to ditch them and try something else (which I have done before).

The Project Mu pads you use for the street are PS pads. They seem like ceramic pads with no metal in them. You find them strong enough for the occasional spirited driving?

I would guess they'd work really well from stone cold, as opposed to other more track focused pads (with metal) which, when cold require may more pedal pressure.

That's the main issue I am trying to avoid - I would love a higher temp pad but that doesn't require extra pedal pressure when stone cold, because on a road car they are pretty much always cold, except in some spirited driving.

I'd guess that pads like HC+ would not be as good cold.

The Type PS is a street pad that has a lot of braking torque and higher heat resistance while still having less dust and noise than oem pads. It is also very smooth to modulate.

The oem Brembo pads for the m340i dusted too much. It was an on/off switch and hard to modulate smoothly. Stopping power was good but it was not a smooth pad. It also sometimes was sticky and you’d get a thump as it released the rotor from a stop.

HC+ is getting into the track use pads category. It will squeak on street driving but otherwise ok for street. HC-CS is better in that it doesn’t make as much noise and has higher heat tolerance on track - trading off with lower braking torque. I run these on track as I don’t want to swap pads between track days.

Project Mu has a whole range of these track pads that can be driven on the street.. it’s a category that’s often missed by more racing oriented companies. Even the club racer and racing 999 pads, you can street drive and the brake dust is wheel and paint friendly. I wouldn’t recommend for street as it’s noisy and dusty but it’s doable. You can get very fine with just how much civility you want to trade off for track ability.

A step in between the project mu PS and HC, the Endless MX72 is good. Just don’t track the mx72.. it has issues with high heat.

[cyam]

Originally Posted by Z K

The Type PS is a street pad that has a lot of braking torque and higher heat resistance while still having less dust and noise than oem pads. It is also very smooth to modulate.

The oem Brembo pads for the m340i dusted too much. It was an on/off switch and hard to modulate smoothly. Stopping power was good but it was not a smooth pad. It also sometimes was sticky and you’d get a thump as it released the rotor from a stop.

HC+ is getting into the track use pads category. It will squeak on street driving but otherwise ok for street. HC-CS is better in that it doesn’t make as much noise and has higher heat tolerance on track - trading off with lower braking torque. I run these on track as I don’t want to swap pads between track days.

A step in between the project mu PS and HC, the Endless MX72 is good. Just don’t track the mx72.. it has issues with high heat.

Great, thanks! I have the M340i with M Sport brakes (348mm fr / 345mm rear) and based on this I might just go with the PS pads.

Any recommendations on rotors - there doesn't seem to be a lot of choice. Are the OEM rotors fine, or are there better alternatives?

Again, really appreciate your insight.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by cyam

Great, thanks! I have the M340i with M Sport brakes (348mm fr / 345mm rear) and based on this I might just go with the PS pads.

Any recommendations on rotors - there doesn't seem to be a lot of choice. Are the OEM rotors fine, or are there better alternatives?

Again, really appreciate your insight.

With the regular m340i brakes, not the big optional brakes, you can just get project mu pads from the bmw Supra. M340i uses the same brakes front and rear. Lots available from vendors.

Stock rotors are fine. If yours are in good condition, keep using them. Slotted cleans the pads for track use. Drilled is supposed to cool the brakes better. Both reduce rotor surface area which is not good for actual braking power. On the street you’re not going to overheat brakes and need pad cleaning between stops so these have little use. Not to mention noisy on the street. If you need to replace the rotors, get oem or other quality rotor like Brembo or Centric high carbon ones.

[peelerec]

Originally Posted by Z K

To be fair, I did not track the 5.0. I used them on my street car, did some spirited driving and didn't like it so I removed them. Replaced it with Project Mu Type PS pads.

I highly disagree with CSG's marketing of their CP pad. They compare it to a DS2500 and a Project Mu Club Racer?!

The DS2500, as I mentioned earlier, is a very outdated pad and the Club Racer is a track day pad. The charts show that the CP is lower noise, dust and wear than both. What they don't show is that the Club Racer has way more braking torque and has double the heat capacity of the CP. This is a apples and oranges comparison! It's like saying the Prius has better fuel economy than the Ferrari...

They should be comparing the CP to something similar from the Project Mu line up like a Type PS. But its marketing... they want to make their pad look favorable. And holy sh!t, they cost way more than Project Mu and Ferodo.

Curious, where/how do you order your Endless pads from? That’s always been on my bucket list since my JDM days.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by peelerec

Curious, where/how do you order your Endless pads from? That’s always been on my bucket list since my JDM days.

I buy them direct from Japan. There’s a lot of places like RHDJapan and Nengen that will he happy to ship to the US.

There’s a lot of vendors that sell them in the US as well. Just Google endless pads for a90 Supra and you’ll find a bunch. Most of them will be the mx72 street pads.

If you want something more specialized like CCRG or ME20 track pads, the Japanese vendors can get it easily. US distribution is pretty slow for special orders as they do sea shipping from Japan. It can take up to 1/2 year to get brake pads.

[peelerec]

Originally Posted by Z K

I buy them direct from Japan. There’s a lot of places like RHDJapan and Nengen that will he happy to ship to the US.

There’s a lot of vendors that sell them in the US as well. Just Google endless pads for a90 Supra and you’ll find a bunch. Most of them will be the mx72 street pads.

If you want something more specialized like CCRG or ME20 track pads, the Japanese vendors can get it easily. US distribution is pretty slow for special orders as they do sea shipping from Japan. It can take up to 1/2 year to get brake pads.

Appreciate it, thanks.

[helmet91]

This thread really should be stickied. Lots of good info the last few days.

I’m going to try the Endless MX72+ this spring. Should be a good mix for street plus a couple trips down to the Ring.

[Gryph8n]

Originally Posted by Z K

The Type PS is a street pad that has a lot of braking torque and higher heat resistance while still having less dust and noise than oem pads. It is also very smooth to modulate.

The oem Brembo pads for the m340i dusted too much. It was an on/off switch and hard to modulate smoothly. Stopping power was good but it was not a smooth pad. It also sometimes was sticky and you’d get a thump as it released the rotor from a stop.

HC+ is getting into the track use pads category. It will squeak on street driving but otherwise ok for street. HC-CS is better in that it doesn’t make as much noise and has higher heat tolerance on track - trading off with lower braking torque. I run these on track as I don’t want to swap pads between track days.

Project Mu has a whole range of these track pads that can be driven on the street.. it’s a category that’s often missed by more racing oriented companies. Even the club racer and racing 999 pads, you can street drive and the brake dust is wheel and paint friendly. I wouldn’t recommend for street as it’s noisy and dusty but it’s doable. You can get very fine with just how much civility you want to trade off for track ability.

A step in between the project mu PS and HC, the Endless MX72 is good. Just don’t track the mx72.. it has issues with high heat.

Anyone have a part number and link (vendor etc) for project Mu PS pads that will fit M340i/M440i sport brakes? Thanks

[Z K]

Originally Posted by Gryph8n

Anyone have a part number and link (vendor etc) for project Mu PS pads that will fit M340i/M440i sport brakes? Thanks

Are you looking for the base Brembo brakes with the 348mm rotor front brakes? If you have the optional big front brakes, that's a different pad.

For Project Mu, you can find any pad by going by the pad shape part number and the desired pad compound.

For the normal M340i Brembo brakes, front the pad shape is Z723. Rear is Z625.



Here is the fronts, The "Euro Sports Excellence" is the same pad with a different name for European markets. Evasive is in California so if it is in stock you can get it within days.

https://www.evasivemotorsports.com/s...0u-hWzqOnVhz2I

Front Type PS:

https://www.rhdjapan.com/project-mu-...k-package.html

https://www.blackhawkjapan.com/produ...z723-type-ps-7

Type PS rear:


https://www.rhdjapan.com/project-mu-...k-package.html

https://www.blackhawkjapan.com/produ...u-z625-type-ps

[Z K]

Originally Posted by helmet91

This thread really should be stickied. Lots of good info the last few days.

I’m going to try the Endless MX72+ this spring. Should be a good mix for street plus a couple trips down to the Ring.

I have not tried it but should be good based on the specifications.

Normal MX72 is a good street pad but should not be driven on track. I had bad experiences with it on track. The pad compound melts at high temperatures and warps rotors.

CC-RG is a step above the MX72 Plus. I used this before. It does squeal under street driving. But on track it is a good pad with high torque and fade resistance. It is pretty similar to the Project Mu HC+.

There is a new MX87.. it looks like a new upgraded MX72 replacement? Just introduced new in 2023.

[Z K]

Quick google on the new MX87 pads. This is a post from the Porsche forums.

Kind of makes sense. MX72 is a 15+ year old pad compound. MX72 plus is newer compound with more torque and heat control. MX87 might be hard to get because it is only available OUTSIDE of Japan. Availability is totally up to local distributors.

[Gryph8n]

Originally Posted by Z K

Are you looking for the base Brembo brakes with the 348mm rotor front brakes? If you have the optional big front brakes, that's a different pad.

For Project Mu, you can find any pad by going by the pad shape part number and the desired pad compound.

For the normal M340i Brembo brakes, front the pad shape is Z723. Rear is Z625.



Here is the fronts, The "Euro Sports Excellence" is the same pad with a different name for European markets. Evasive is in California so if it is in stock you can get it within days.

https://www.evasivemotorsports.com/s...0u-hWzqOnVhz2I

Front Type PS:

https://www.rhdjapan.com/project-mu-...k-package.html

https://www.blackhawkjapan.com/produ...z723-type-ps-7

Type PS rear:


https://www.rhdjapan.com/project-mu-...k-package.html

https://www.blackhawkjapan.com/produ...u-z625-type-ps

I’m looking for pads that will fit the M Sport Package Pro 3M2 M Sport Brakes.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by Gryph8n

I’m looking for pads that will fit the M Sport Package Pro 3M2 M Sport Brakes.

Is this a 2023 model? It sounds like you have some kind of option 033 or ZTK brake kit.

Bimmerworld has a article on the G series brakes:
https://www.bimmerworld.com/About-Us...rakes-G20-G22/

You may want to measure your brake discs as the article shows to make certain or find the exact brake kit option code based on your VIN. BMW M340/440i only have two different brake pad shapes for the front. It will be one or the other.

One complication in mid 2022+ cars with the normal Brembo brakes use the same pads but they changed the retaining pin location so you may have to drill a hole on the pad backing plate to make it fit. Really weird but Brembo does weird things.

2022+ hole location:

Before 2022 location:

[Gryph8n]

Originally Posted by Z K

Is this a 2023 model? It sounds like you have some kind of option 033 or ZTK brake kit.

Bimmerworld has a article on the G series brakes:
https://www.bimmerworld.com/About-Us...rakes-G20-G22/

You may want to measure your brake discs as the article shows to make certain or find the exact brake kit option code based on your VIN. BMW M340/440i only have two different brake pad shapes for the front. It will be one or the other.

One complication in mid 2022+ cars with the normal Brembo brakes use the same pads but they changed the retaining pin location so you may have to drill a hole on the pad backing plate to make it fit. Really weird but Brembo does weird things.

2022+ hole location:

Before 2022 location:

Yes mine is a 2023 M440i.

What’s another similar option without having to drill?

[Z K]

Originally Posted by Gryph8n

Yes mine is a 2023 M440i.

What’s another similar option without having to drill?

If you have the larger brake option, you won't need to drill. You can buy those pads.

For the regular Brembo brakes, I don't see many options for the 2022+ front brakes outside of OEM. Aftermarket support will be limited since it is so new.

[noname]

Originally Posted by Z K

The oem Brembo pads for the m340i dusted too much. It was an on/off switch and hard to modulate smoothly. Stopping power was good but it was not a smooth pad. It also sometimes was sticky and you’d get a thump as it released the rotor from a stop.

Wow. This is exactly what I've been experiencing. Took it to the dealer a few times to see if they could figure it out. I'll definitely change these out once they get end of life.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by noname

Wow. This is exactly what I've been experiencing. Took it to the dealer a few times to see if they could figure it out. I'll definitely change these out once they get end of life.

A easy way to determine if it is the pad is if you let off the brake pedal from a stop, there is a slight hesitation moving forward then "thunk" as it lets go of the rotor and you start moving. Usually this happens when the pad gets hot - it softens and sticks to the rotor.

It's not uncommon for brake pads to do this. Brembo is not alone with this issue. But it is a bit annoying in a street car.

[cyam]

Does anyone know the minimum thickness for the rotors on M Sport?

So the nominal thickness is 36mm front and 24mm rear, but what is the minimum thickness allowed?

I am trying to figure how much the first set of pads have worn the rotors down to see if a second set will wear them past the minimum thickness (after skimming).

[prostcfc]

Z K So you would recommend either Project Mu HC+ or HC-CS for dual track/street use? I don't want to change my pads between track days and don't mind some squealing on street. I'm also admittingly very lazy with cleaning up brake dust, and I don't want to worry about any ill effects. What about on the Endless side for similar use? I have a race shop nearby that sells Endless and Pagid and so I could probably source from them.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by prostcfc

Z K So you would recommend either Project Mu HC+ or HC-CS for dual track/street use? I don't want to change my pads between track days and don't mind some squealing on street. I'm also admittingly very lazy with cleaning up brake dust, and I don't want to worry about any ill effects. What about on the Endless side for similar use? I have a race shop nearby that sells Endless and Pagid and so I could probably source from them.

HC-CS will have less dust and noise than the HC+ and is better for track use. The only thing the HC+ does better than HC-CS is initial bite and torque. Project Mu availability from US vendors is not very good. Verify they have it in stock otherwise you will be in for a very long wait. If you don't mind some noise, the Club Racer is a great track day pad, but it be noisy and dusty on the street. These are USA market pads so should have wider availability in A90 Supra (base M340i Brembo) fitment.

Edit: Here's Club Racers in stock:
https://www.evasivemotorsports.com/s...a-a90-30-2020/
https://www.evasivemotorsports.com/s...-caliper-2020/

Endless, you probably want a MX72 Plus or higher like a CC-RG or ME20/22 pad. Do not use the normal MX72 on track.

[prostcfc]

Originally Posted by Z K

HC-CS will have less dust and noise than the HC+ and is better for track use. The only thing the HC+ does better than HC-CS is initial bite and torque. Project Mu availability from US vendors is not very good. Verify they have it in stock otherwise you will be in for a very long wait. If you don't mind some noise, the Club Racer is a great track day pad, but it be noisy and dusty on the street. These are USA market pads so should have wider availability in A90 Supra (base M340i Brembo) fitment.

Edit: Here's Club Racers in stock:
https://www.evasivemotorsports.com/s...a-a90-30-2020/
https://www.evasivemotorsports.com/s...-caliper-2020/

Endless, you probably want a MX72 Plus or higher like a CC-RG or ME20/22 pad. Do not use the normal MX72 on track.

Thanks - I tried a couple vendors in the US and they all said special order for Project Mu (4+ months). I'm going to try buying direct from rhdjapan.