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Technical Topics B48 4-Cylinder Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications Do the 320i and 330i have the same engine?

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      07-01-2020, 11:32 AM   #23
richard billiamm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagineranger View Post
I noticed that G20 320i and 330i both have B48B20B engine equipped. Does that mean their engines have totally the same parts and just tuned for different powers?
Yeah they will be exactly the same, the potential after tuning will also be the same
i.e. 320i 184hp to 300hp, 330i 258hp to 300hp
Interneal comparments and turbos are the same.
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      10-31-2021, 03:58 AM   #24
verheizer
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Originally Posted by sddz6269 View Post
In China, 320i also has B48B20B.
Where do I find this engine code? Going to look at a used car tomorrow, not sure where in the engine bay I can find this! Thanks.
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      10-31-2021, 02:43 PM   #25
bquatt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richard billiamm View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagineranger View Post
I noticed that G20 320i and 330i both have B48B20B engine equipped. Does that mean their engines have totally the same parts and just tuned for different powers?
Yeah they will be exactly the same, the potential after tuning will also be the same
i.e. 320i 184hp to 300hp, 330i 258hp to 300hp
Interneal comparments and turbos are the same.
This is not true - they have different pistons and the compression ratio is different.
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Calamari161.50
      11-17-2021, 06:59 AM   #26
Rastlein
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bquatt View Post
This is not true - they have different pistons and the compression ratio is different.
No. The 320i engine code B48B20B is the same.
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      11-17-2021, 09:03 AM   #27
bquatt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastlein View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bquatt View Post
This is not true - they have different pistons and the compression ratio is different.
No. The 320i engine code B48B20B is the same.
Look up the 320i compression ratio and then compare that to the 330i. I've asked tuners about this. They do not tune 320's to the same level as the 330 due to this.
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      11-21-2021, 09:28 AM   #28
Knifeedge2k1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bquatt View Post
Look up the 320i compression ratio and then compare that to the 330i. I've asked tuners about this. They do not tune 320's to the same level as the 330 due to this.
this was true way back when

In the B series engines (b46, b48) it's a bit complicated because the 20i had multiple different engines.

B48B20A (used ONLY in 20i and in SOME 30e hybrid setups)
B48B20B (used in 20i AND 30i identical hardware with different software tune)

The B48B20A has different hardware to the 20B and yes compression ratio is ONE of the things which sets the 20B and 20A apart.

If you have a 20i with a B48B20B engine, you CAN safely tune it in the same way as the 30i (with caveats) from a hardware perspective. The caveat being, if you use JB4/Racechip, you're going to be "knee capped" by certain settings in the 20i software tune which create a lot of trouble i.e AFR never targeting anything other than stoichemetric & hardcoded throttle closures (I know this because this is what I ran into).

If you have a 20i with a B48B20B and do a flash tune (BM3, MHD, Ecutek, etc.) you can unlock it's full capability by freeing up DME to target lower AFR which give you better timing and for all intents and purposes becomes identical to a tuned 30i.

If you have a 20i or 30e with a B48B20A unfortunately there's much lower headroom in what you can do because of the compression ratio and difference in other hardware around/in the engine.
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      11-21-2021, 09:34 AM   #29
Knifeedge2k1
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it's clear why this is done

It's a cost cutting measure, why have another engine with different parts when you can use the same engine across multiple models (20i & 30i) with simply software change.

The modular design already cuts a LOT of cost but going one step further to combine 20i & 30i engines makes a LOT of sense given the 20i isn't even available as a trim level in some regions (there is no 320i in the united states as far as I know).
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      11-25-2021, 07:27 AM   #30
Calamari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knifeedge2k1 View Post
it's clear why this is done

It's a cost cutting measure, why have another engine with different parts when you can use the same engine across multiple models (20i & 30i) with simply software change.

The modular design already cuts a LOT of cost but going one step further to combine 20i & 30i engines makes a LOT of sense given the 20i isn't even available as a trim level in some regions (there is no 320i in the united states as far as I know).
No true. Engine block and some other parts are the same (as a cost saving measure) but a lot of mechanical parts are different. Only fool can think that BMW will skip on the opportunity to save money on pistons, fuel pump, injectors, intercooler, turbo and other parts of the lower spec engine variant.
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bquatt92.50
      11-25-2021, 08:27 PM   #31
Knifeedge2k1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamari View Post
No true. Engine block and some other parts are the same (as a cost saving measure) but a lot of mechanical parts are different. Only fool can think that BMW will skip on the opportunity to save money on pistons, fuel pump, injectors, intercooler, turbo and other parts of the lower spec engine variant.
Believe whatever you want but if you don't know the costs of having extra SKUs and parts then it won't seem obvious but maybe this will help

Imagine you build one car say the 30i and you discover via focus groups or whatever that you can get more sales without cannibalizing existing sales by simply making a less powerful model for cheaper. You can (1) design entirely new parts for this cheaper model, potentially saving a bit on manufacturing costs because lower quality thresholds or materials or (2) change a bit of code because everything is digital now. All you have to do is lower target boost pressure and change some AFR map figures.... That's about it.

Remember with new designs and parts comes costs relating to design and testing, that doesn't really apply to software detuning. If you make a part that can withstands 300hp by definition it can handle 200hp.

You can see the part numbers on all those things you mentioned are the same. I'm not talking about on bimmercat (even though this is good enough for me) because you might have a ton foil hat on. I'm taking about lifting the hood and physically checking the parts.

Between every single B48B20B I've seen the parts are identical regardless of whether the model was 20i 30i or 30e.

Only the software / ecu behavior differed
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      11-25-2021, 09:22 PM   #32
Knifeedge2k1
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Streamlining production, reducing inventories, simplifying processes almost always outweigh minute differences in materials cost.
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