[hans007]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

And, here is more info for those pining for Hans and the Black Forest elves as the only ones to build their car....how's your acceptance of your previous BMWs as built by Turks? For those who have a personal ethnicity scoresheet, where do they stand versus Mexicans? Some quite repulsive thoughts on this thread.

https://www.dw.com/en/turkish-guest-...ety/a-15489210

https://prezi.com/se_lpg52eprd/what-...many-and-what/

my name actually is Hans. I'd totally be ok with someone that looks like me building my car. plot twist.... I'm asian!

[320iG20]

Cost reduction results in more and more temporary workers - the salaried company employees earn a lot more.

And Mercedes has even more than BMW - many even via subcontractors, those earn the least.

Porsche should be the last company without temporary workers, the staff association just didn't allow it (at least until 2017).

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by hans007

my name actually is Hans. I'd totally be ok with someone that looks like me building my car. plot twist.... I'm asian!

Touché!

[bimmerfile]

Originally Posted by SleepingBMW

I'm a big guitar guy. Also, full disclosure, I've been anti-NAFTA since before Trump made it cool.

The 'Stratocaster' guitar that everyone recognizes and loves is currently made by Fender in California, and just across the boarder in Mexico.

The US version sells for $1500. the Mexican? $550. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .........
TLDR? Wait on Mexican BMWs if build quality is all that matters. Fender Mexican guitars are excellent compared to 10 years ago! Politically? Hard to justify imo, but also hard to avoid in the modern economic climate.

Agreed, I bought a $50 Rolex in Tijuana back in my younger days. It was nowhere the quality of the Swiss made one..

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by bimmerfile

Agreed, I bought a $50 Rolex in Tijuana back in my younger days. It was nowhere the quality of the Swiss made one..

Don't be too upset...the one I paid full price for has never been accurate (compared to a ~$100 Casio Atomic Solar), and Rolex says that's perfectly normal and to design specs. Yours might be just as accurate as a real one!

[DCG]

Originally Posted by sekitori

I assume you're implying that many, if not all products made in Mexico are of poor quality. On the other hand, I've had experiences where products made in the good ol' US of A turned out to be absolute crap.

The most reliable product I ever bought is a digital Casio G-Shock watch which cost about 40 bucks. I've had it for many years and it's as accurate as a watch can be, gaining about one second per week. Although the parts are from Japan, it was assembled in China, a country supposedly noted for the lack of quality of goods it produces. I own many products manufactured in foreign countires that work just as well.

If a manufacturer is reputable, has an excellent product, and maintains proper quality control, the result will be something that's useful and reliable, hopefully at a reasonable price--no matter where it's made. Those places include China and Mexico, among many other countries.

You want to talk Casio G-Shock? I have one of the Original 1980s ones and believe it or not the ORIGINAL battery still works spot on. that's a whopping 30 years!!! Sold it recently to a collector. Made in Japan! I even had two Titanium Geze Series G-Shock's that I sent in to Casio USA to have battery replaced and they couldn't replace the batteries because they were Japanese specific batteries.

The reality is stuff is NOT made like it used to be. Everything today is disposable including cars. They are meant to last three years and then they start having serious issues, the exact same time the warranty is up. The reason why I like BMW and the iconic 3 Series is that they are designed and made in Germany, but I should now say "were". And BMW is independently owned and still adhere to that high standards all these years later. We, the consumers are all paying a very very high premium for that. If the new Mexican made 3 Series is going to be made in Mexico. Labor costs are obviously less, BMW is saving money but they are NOT passing that on to the North American market consumers and I don't like that. The car should be less expensive then since they are obviously saving costs.

WAKE UP people, one of our beloved vehicles is going to start going down the slippery slope of not being reliable and that is totally a-shame.

Let's see who's going to be the guinea pig. Not I!

[trey100]

Originally Posted by Dethsupp0rt

I'm not terribly interested in getting into a political discussion here, but I've seen my share of shoddy American Strats over the years as well.

Granted, I haven't been into the guitar scene in years, but when I was, I'd certainly take a Mexican Strat, swap out pots and pups (you're mostly right about the electronics, that's where the costs are cut), and come out with something way better feeling and sounding than the American one.

As far as exploiting Mexican workers goes, there aren't a lot of opportunities in some of these places . . . so even though they may only be making $4/hour, that's a ton more than they'd be making if those jobs weren't there, and $4/hour goes a lot farther there than it does here.

Plus, it gets the younger generation interested in higher-tech careers that they wouldn't be able to pursue, or may not even know about otherwise.

Granted, there's a lot of work to be done here to achieve parity with other nations, but it's a start.

From the right point of view, it wouldn't matter, since it's not a 'murican car anyway. They won't buy a BMW just like they won't buy a Honda or Toyota (the joke being the Honda and Toyota are made with more American labor and content than pretty much all Chrysler, Ford, and GM products).

Actually with the "new NAFTA" they must pay I believe something like $16/hr. So there aren't any $4/hr workers.

[Mpunk]

From reports that the US release date won’t be until March 2019, which is around the same time that it’s been reported that the Mexican plant would start producing the G20s, I think it’s safe to assume that pretty much ALL of US-bound G20s will come from Mexico. Which means that there will be no more European Delivery for the 3-series. So it isn’t too much of a stretch to imagine that the next G80 M3 will be assembled in Mexico also in the way that the C-class sedan (including the C63 sedan) is made in Alabama (the C-coupe still comes from Germany).

I think the fact that this is a new factory (let alone a new chassis) will mean there will be many issues and kinks to work out on first year cars.

No doubt that BMW is doing this for cost savings. It does suck that the new M340i fully optioned will likely carry an MSRP of close to $70K and come from Mexico. (Or conceivably a G80 M3 Competition Package of $90K and come from Mexico.) BMW will be using these cost savings to pay for increased electrification and autonomous driving, things that we may not want or need.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by Mpunk

From reports that the US release date won't be until March 2019, which is around the same time that it's been reported that the Mexican plant would start producing the G20s, I think it's safe to assume that pretty much ALL of US-bound G20s will come from Mexico. Which means that there will be no more European Delivery for the 3-series. So it isn't too much of a stretch to imagine that the next G80 M3 will be assembled in Mexico also in the way that the Mercedes-AMG C63 is made in Alabama (the C-coupe still comes from Germany).

I think the fact that this is a new factory (let alone a new chassis) will mean there will be many issues and kinks to work out on first year cars.

No doubt that BMW is doing this for cost savings. It does suck that the new M340i fully optioned will likely carry an MSRP of close to $70K and come from Mexico. (Or conceivably a G80 M3 Competition Package of $90K and come from Mexico.) BMW will be using these cost savings to pay for increased electrification and autonomous driving, things that we may not want or need.

No. BMW will be producing the 3 series in Europe and in Mexico (can't believe I just typed that). Remember they have been producing the 3 series in Germany and South Africa up until this point. No more SA and hello Mexico.

I'm pretty sure ED will continue on the 3 series just like it has all along. ED cars will come from the German plant.

///M cars will continue to be built in Germany.

When all this shit changes I'm OUT!

For shits and giggles I looked up Audi ED yesterday and they cancelled the whole program. Audi is now officially dead to me

[phillyd2]

Originally Posted by Mpunk

From reports that the US release date won’t be until March 2019, which is around the same time that it’s been reported that the Mexican plant would start producing the G20s, I think it’s safe to assume that pretty much ALL of US-bound G20s will come from Mexico. Which means that there will be no more European Delivery for the 3-series. So it isn’t too much of a stretch to imagine that the next G80 M3 will be assembled in Mexico also in the way that the C-class sedan (including the C63 sedan) is made in Alabama (the C-coupe still comes from Germany).

I think the fact that this is a new factory (let alone a new chassis) will mean there will be many issues and kinks to work out on first year cars.

No doubt that BMW is doing this for cost savings. It does suck that the new M340i fully optioned will likely carry an MSRP of close to $70K and come from Mexico. (Or conceivably a G80 M3 Competition Package of $90K and come from Mexico.) BMW will be using these cost savings to pay for increased electrification and autonomous driving, things that we may not want or need.

What sort of issues and kinks?

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by phillyd2

What sort of issues and kinks?

I'm assuming you've not had the chance to be in a plant or work on a new vehicle launch. Although there are phases of pre-volume production which fully intend to lead to a flawless launch, any number of potential issues can arise as suppliers, equipment, and line operators transition from low volume and testing to continuous full speed. It's impossible to predict. From a body shop robot to a torque setting on a bolt, it's never known until it happens. I recall the day we were notified of a yard hold for thousands of trucks because the supplier had changed the adhesive formula for bodyside molding without telling us to allow for verification testing, and they were curling/peeling off. Mercedes had issues launching the current C Class at the Alabama plant when at least 1) a panel was not being properly fit to the body-in-white, and 2) a new supplier of MBTex had a quality issue and the material was developing white blotches, requiring replacement of interiors of cars already built! Had they known ahead of time, they obviously would have taken preventive measures...every launch has surprises. Early build buyers always are taking a risk to be able to be "first on the block".

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

I'm pretty sure ED will continue on the 3 series just like it has all along. ED cars will come from the German plant.

I doubt this highly. I'm not sure of the ED volume, but for a base plan building US vehicles in Mexico, with some parts undoubtedly sourced in North America, I cannot imagine that BMW would launch (and possibly ship back overseas from N.A.) all the US only/certified parts, including adding entire powertrains with US certification, for a 3 Series to build a relative handful of sporadic ED orders in Germany. ED delivery is essentially "plant delivery" and it is most highly likely that one must go to the actual plant where built to take delivery.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

I'm assuming you've not had the chance to be in a plant or work on a new vehicle launch. Although there are phases of pre-volume production which fully intend to lead to a flawless launch, any number of potential issues can arise as suppliers, equipment, and line operators transition from low volume and testing to continuous full speed. It's impossible to predict. From a body shop robot to a torque setting on a bolt, it's never known until it happens. I recall the day we were notified of a yard hold for thousands of trucks because the supplier had changed the adhesive formula for bodyside molding without telling us to allow for verification testing, and they were curling/peeling off. Mercedes had issues launching the current C Class at the Alabama plant when at least 1) a panel was not being properly fit to the body-in-white, and 2) a new supplier of MBTex had a quality issue and the material was developing white blotches, requiring replacement of interiors of cars already built! Had they known ahead of time, they obviously would have taken preventive measures...every launch has surprises. Early build buyers always are taking a risk to be able to be "first on the block".

I doubt this highly. I'm not sure of the ED volume, but for a base plan building US vehicles in Mexico, with some parts undoubtedly sourced in North America, I cannot imagine that BMW would launch (and possibly ship back overseas from N.A.) all the US only/certified parts, including adding entire powertrains with US certification, for a 3 Series to build a relative handful of sporadic ED orders in Germany. ED delivery is essentially "plant delivery" and it is most highly likely that one must go to the actual plant where built to take delivery.

We will see. As I stated BMW will be building the 3 series in the German plant also not just the Mexican plant. So ED customers will be taking delivery right where the cars are being manufactured in Germany. BMW unlike Audi, which just cancelled their ED program, understands the value of the ED program regarding brand loyalty. I highly doubt they will discontinue it for new 3 series.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

We will see. As I stated BMW will be building the 3 series in the German plant also not just the Mexican plant. So ED customers will be taking delivery right where the cars are being manufactured in Germany. BMW unlike Audi, which just cancelled their ED program, understands the value of the ED program regarding brand loyalty. I highly doubt they will discontinue it for new 3 series.

Perhaps, I should clarify. Customers for 3 Series vehicles built in the German plant, such as other European countries, will most likely have the ability to take plant delivery. Customers for 3 Series vehicles not built in that German plant, such as for North America, will most likely not. All 3 Series are not fungible; the parts variation throughout the car between US-destined cars and European or ROW (Rest of World) destined cars is significant. Adding more powertrain combinations with NHTSA/EPA certification alone would have a major impact on plant facilitization. Therefore, the costs and logistics of re-introducing a U.S. certified vehicle for a very small percentage of the mix will be significant....technically possible, of course, but an extremely unlikely decision unless they want to throw very big bucks at a relatively few owners.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Perhaps, I should clarify. Customers for 3 Series vehicles built in the German plant, such as other European countries, will most likely have the ability to take plant delivery. Customers for 3 Series vehicles not built in that German plant, such as for North America, will most likely not. All 3 Series are not fungible; the parts variation throughout the car between US-destined cars and European or ROW (Rest of World) destined cars are significant. Adding more powertrain combinations with NHTSA/EPA certification alone would have a major impact on plant facilitization. Therefore, the costs and logistics of re-introducing a U.S. certified vehicle for a very small percentage of the mix will be significant....technically possible, of course, but an extremely unlikely decision unless they want to throw very big bucks at a relatively few owners.

We will know soon enough. My money is on BMW continuing 3 series ED for American customers. I honestly don't care that much as I'm done with "regular" BMWs anyway. There isn't much difference between them and a Honda Accord at this point.

It's ///M cars or nothing for me. Once my wife's 340 lease is up it will be the 1st time in 15 years that we won't have a 3 series vehicle in our stable.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

We will know soon enough. My money is on BMW continuing 3 series ED for American customers. I honestly don't care that much as I'm done with "regular" BMWs anyway. There isn't much difference between them and a Honda Accord at this point.

It's ///M cars or nothing for me. Once my wife's 340 lease is up it will be the 1st time in 15 years that we won't have a 3 series vehicle in our stable.

You may be in luck! From what I've read (but without seeing firm documentation), the M3 may be sourced in Germany, apart from the other 3 Series N.A. models coming from Mexico. Don't give up hope yet!

One real difference between a new 3 and Honda Accord is that you can still get a stick on the Honda in the U.S.

[///M4ster Yoda]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

You may be in luck! From what I've read (but without seeing firm documentation), the M3 may be sourced in Germany, apart from the other 3 Series N.A. models coming from Mexico. Don't give up hope yet!

One real difference between a new 3 and Honda Accord is that you can still get a stick on the Honda in the U.S.

Haha. Crazy right. BMW doesn't offer a stick on a 3 series but Honda does

[BMW11]

doesn't Walter White work in that town? or was that Tuco? ... lol

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by phillyd2

What sort of issues and kinks?

People talking about subjects they have no first hand knowledge about?

[arciga18]

I added the link to the actual article to the first post.


https://massanluis.com/2018/10/04/es...tosi-y-mexico/

[r3dbimmer89]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

You may be in luck! From what I've read (but without seeing firm documentation), the M3 may be sourced in Germany, apart from the other 3 Series N.A. models coming from Mexico. Don't give up hope yet!

One real difference between a new 3 and Honda Accord is that you can still get a stick on the Honda in the U.S.

A few years back, when the Mexico plant was first announced, I remember Scott26 mentioning something about the M3 still being made in Germany. That makes sense as the Mexico plant may not be equipped to produce the wider body for the M3...

We may get a mix of 3ers from both Germany and Mexico like we did with the S African/German cars. It's hard to say but I'm sure politics play a part of this with tariffs and all.

Merc tried to solely supply the US with C-Classes from their Alabama plant but starting with 18 MY, the US is now getting S African and Alabama made C Classes...

[BMW M Power Mexico]

We had a local M club "comida" a week ago that was attended by a friend who works at the San Luis Plant and shall remain nameless.

Some real information:

- The plant has started production but all they are building now are "test" vehicles that won't be sold to validate the entire process and ensure that quality is up to expected ("German" if you want to call them that!) standards. The photo in the OP is of one such test vehicle. Also, the photo was a leak that wasn't supposed to happen b/c it's not "real" production yet.

- Production ramp up will be VERY gradual. Initially just one shift and over time increasing to 3.

- The plant can build up to 175,000 cars/year when it reaches full capacity

- Initially for the first several months and maybe a year only the 330i will be built here. Over time other models may be added. The plant is ready to be retooled relatively easily to build other models if demand/consumption/tariffs shift.

- Almost 2,000 hires so far. These are all people who won't be emigrating to the US and who will consume a lot of imported US goods.

- A huge amount of parts are sourced from the U.S., Germany and elsewhere.

I have 100% confidence in the ability of this BMW plant to build cars indistinguishable from those built elsewhere.

Carry on.

[arciga18]

Originally Posted by BMW M Power Mexico

We had a local M club "comida" a week ago that was attended by a friend who works at the San Luis Plant and shall remain nameless.

Some real information:

- The plant has started production but all they are building now are "test" vehicles that won't be sold to validate the entire process and ensure that quality is up to expected ("German" if you want to call them that!) standards. The photo in the OP is of one such test vehicle. Also, the photo was a leak that wasn't supposed to happen b/c it's not "real" production yet.

- Production ramp up will be VERY gradual. Initially just one shift and over time increasing to 3.

- The plant can build up to 175,000 cars/year when it reaches full capacity

- Initially for the first several months and maybe a year only the 330i will be built here. Over time other models may be added. The plant is ready to be retooled relatively easily to build other models if demand/consumption/tariffs shift.

- Almost 2,000 hires so far. These are all people who won't be emigrating to the US and who will consume a lot of imported US goods.

- A huge amount of parts are sourced from the U.S., Germany and elsewhere.

I have 100% confidence in the ability of this BMW plant to build cars indistinguishable from those built elsewhere.

Carry on.

Saludos amigo.