[stefan]

Originally Posted by M3GymNut

What makes you say that?

The N55 was built on an extremely limited budget during a time that BMW was not particularly focused on maximizing the platform. It's a very minor evolution of the N54. The S55 is built on this inherently poor platform and attempts to right some of the wrongs with its heat exchangers, etc. I will try to find the article for you but I'm having trouble tracking it down.

The B58 is a very different motor from the ground up with a much better cooling system, making it a more flexible platform for the upcoming S motor. Should be able to rev quicker, higher, and with less lag.

[stefan]

Originally Posted by pheerIx

But the N55 was good enough for the M2? :
If anything I hope they do some cooling magic and eliminate the need for the ground facing oil cooler. Catastrophic oil leak ticking time bomb.

I think it fits the character of the M2 with its low lag and high torque and low rpm. But it's arguably NOT that BMW S motor of old as the N55 in the M2 (B0) runs out of air at high RPMs.. somewhat addressed with tunes but presumably at a cost.

But both the N55 and S55 suffer from heat issues, with the S55 having a frankenstein cooling system especially with that ground facing cooler you describe. We won't have that issue with the B/S58. It's designed from the ground up to meet the demand for power and cooling. As such the S iteration won't be the laggy frankenstein that the S55 is in its quest to achieve high rpm power.

I did find that article and it is an amazing read:

http://youwheel.com/home/2016/03/27/...linder-engine/

[RPM33]

Originally Posted by stefan

I think it fits the character of the M2 with its low lag and high torque and low rpm. But it's arguably NOT that BMW S motor of old as the N55 in the M2 (B0) runs out of air at high RPMs.. somewhat addressed with tunes but presumably at a cost.

But both the N55 and S55 suffer from heat issues, with the S55 having a frankenstein cooling system especially with that ground facing cooler you describe. We won't have that issue with the B/S58. It's designed from the ground up to meet the demand for power and cooling. As such the S iteration won't be the laggy frankenstein that the S55 is in its quest to achieve high rpm power.

I did find that article and it is an amazing read:

http://youwheel.com/home/2016/03/27/...linder-engine/

You are correct Stefan, as the N55 in the M2 runs out of air at high RPMs. I experience this every weekend during my drives. Which is why I'm getting rid of mine for an M2C. Excited to see the S58 engine in the M4 in 2-3 years out.

[adc]

I read all these comments about the S55 running out air, lag, and having cooling problems and I’m here at VIR in my 2018 M3 ZCP stick, laughing my ass off.

The F80 has the best heat management of any BMW ever, M or non-M, the S55 is the first M engine to not burn any oil and one of the few (only?) mass-production turbo engines to run an anti-lag system, and yet there are countless internet experts nitpicking on it.

Why don’t y’all do some more track driving before you go criticizing. I’ve driven all the M3 iterations to date on track and the current one is the best by quite a margin. Seriously, the best track platform that BMW has had since the E30 and all you hear is complaining.

I hope BMW gives you all that you ask for, and then I’ll be here still laughing my ass off as you go and nitpick on that too...

[Powerslide]

Originally Posted by adc

I read all these comments about the S55 running out air, lag, and having cooling problems and I’m here at VIR in my 2018 M3 ZCP stick, laughing my ass off.

The F80 has the best heat management of any BMW ever, M or non-M, the S55 is the first M engine to not burn any oil and one of the few (only?) mass-production turbo engines to run an anti-lag system, and yet there are countless internet experts nitpicking on it.

Why don’t y’all do some more track driving before you go criticizing. I’ve driven all the M3 iterations to date on track and the current one is the best by quite a margin. Seriously, the best track platform that BMW has had since the E30 and all you hear is complaining.

I hope BMW gives you all that you ask for, and then I’ll be here still laughing my ass off as you go and nitpick on that too...

Completely agree - the S55 having heating issues and "running out of air" at high RPM's have to be some of the most false information I've heard on this forum, and literally 180 degrees opposite of my experience (and many others') on the track and on the road. I've run 5 separate 30-minute track sessions on days when the temperature was in the upper 90's many times - as did multiple others at the same track day events as me - neither my car nor any other F8x's at the track EVER experienced overheating. In fact, after thrashing the living crap out of the S55 all day long and going full throttle all the way up to 7500-7600 rpm before each shift in those conditions - driving in Sport+ throttle - the oil temperature dial never even got close to the halfway mark on ANY occasion.

Running out of air at high RPM's? The car is still making (in ZCP form) the full 444 SAE horsepower all the way up to about 7300-7400 rpm - and it only drops to about 425 by the time you hit 7,600 rpm redline. This car pulls like an absolute maniac all the way to redline.

People come on these forums deciding they don't like a particular car or engine (which is fine) - but spreading false factual information is a completely different animal from merely stating an opinion.

[kyrix1st]

Hope they throw in a 4.4L V8 with hybrid system and call it a day. EU regulations can always be "trumped"...

[Rizvi]

I didn't like the F80 at all, hoping the G80 will be nicer, judging from the F30 vs G20 images- hope is alive but really, we'll have to wait and see. Performance rumors for the G80 are out of this world! I was seriously looking at an M2 CS(L) as a little bro for my E90 M3, but now I might change my mind. I had given up on the M3 franchise post E9x- the F generation looks like an amine character, so many superfluous lines. The G has them too, but for some reason it doesn't bother me as much. I just hope they can figure something out with the sound, the turbo era M3s sound like shit. For that reason, I may never let go of my E90, the sound is glorious when you get up into the powerband!

driving isn't fun when the sound is fake or is just plain shit!

My 2 cents...

[V-Eight]

The F80 is just as good as any previous M3 gens. We have not to remember the natural aspiration, or turbos. We have to think at the period in which they were. Nowadays it's time for the turbos, NA engines passed away for a couple of reasons. Someone may not like the Active sound in nowadays cars, but it's not "fake sound", it just "enhances" the real sound of the engine, due to the isolation that is needed to use a car everyday.

Pay attention to one simple thing...in less than ten years....you'll regret the "fake" ASD.....as every car will be simply a kind of a silence room, or maybe will be close to something smooth, quiet a silent. For sure they'll have good or excellent performances...but we will miss the engaging drama of the gasoline that burns inside.....i'll really, really miss it. Maybe it's time to buy an old school special car to bring for the rest of my life in order to drive it when driving depression will take over to restore my soul.

[RowanBuds]

Originally Posted by stefan

I think it fits the character of the M2 with its low lag and high torque and low rpm. But it's arguably NOT that BMW S motor of old as the N55 in the M2 (B0) runs out of air at high RPMs.. somewhat addressed with tunes but presumably at a cost.

But both the N55 and S55 suffer from heat issues, with the S55 having a frankenstein cooling system especially with that ground facing cooler you describe. We won't have that issue with the B/S58. It's designed from the ground up to meet the demand for power and cooling. As such the S iteration won't be the laggy frankenstein that the S55 is in its quest to achieve high rpm power.

I did find that article and it is an amazing read:

http://youwheel.com/home/2016/03/27/...linder-engine/

I should add that I disagree with your label of 'laggy frankenstein' as respects the S55. Does it respond to throttle movement as fast as an S65 or S54 - no, but is it laggy like a typical japanese turbocharged engine - No. I find when it's in full attack mode the lag is practically negligible. There's no --- WAIT FOR IT -----BOOST!!! moment in an S55, at least with my years of experience. Is it frankensteined using the basic framework of an N54, yup - is it simply a tuned N54/55, no.

I read through the provided link and something doesn't feel right here. The article is focused on the differences going from N55 to S58 it seems. The big hit items are "Closed Deck(!!)" and "Air-to-Water Intercooler".

Both of those things are present in the 5 year old S55. Rerouting the intercooler piping to shorten its run and relocating/consolidating the cooling radiators are good things, but still I'd like to see an S55 to S58 comparison to have a better apples-apples mark.

[Jason]

Updated February 6, 2019

The G80 M3 drops some camouflage. However, it still does not feature certain M parts (carbon fiber roof, M mirrors, side skirts, hood bump), which we'll surely see on later prototypes. Check out how much wider those fenders are than the standard G20 3 Series!

BMW G80 M3 Spied - February 6, 2019

[Transfer]

Now we're getting somewhere! Looking good.

[Thescout13]

Looks like they are starting to mold the rear to be wider. Hope it has a nice looking rear stance which is what makes the F80 so special IMO.

[YasF80_SLO]

never thought id say it, but waiting for m2gc to be confirmed or denied before signing up for this M.

[G80BSM]

Looks like the big cojones tradition is going to continue with the G80

[EatMoreLobsters]

Ohhh

[SM2]

Yeah!! 👍ugly muffler again 😭

[NoImDirtyDan]

They really need to tuck that muffler, or at least style the diffuser to hide it...

[tonymac1]

WIDE! That's good, however that muffler is a joke. Seriously?

[LeMans E90]

It's starting to come together nicely.

Thoughts on this reaching at or close to 100K MSRP fully loaded?

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by YasF80_SLO

never thought id say it, but waiting for m2gc to be confirmed or denied before signing up for this M.

It has been known for well over a year that no such product is coming. This fact has been covered here on Bimmerpost in no less than a dozen separate threads, and probably more. The 2 Series Gran Coupe is a UKL (now called FAAR) vehicle, and BMW has no M program in development for that platform.

If you want a small high performance sedan built on a FWD architecture, you can go and buy an RS3 or first generation CLA45 today, or you can wait for the new A45 sedan or the second generation CLA45 arriving soon. BMW is not going to offer any counterpart. And even if they did, it isn't immediately clear it would be a better car than those choices are.

[YasF80_SLO]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

It has been known for well over a year that no such product is coming.

thanks for the info. sad to hear about the 2 series gc lacking m development. not really interested in FWD or the audi/merc competition atm, maybe next generations cla45 will appeal more.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by LeMans E90

Thoughts on this reaching at or close to 100K MSRP fully loaded?

You could easily have spent $100k on an F80 M3, so sure, you'll be able to get a G80 for that much too if you so desire.

Starting price will also remain within a few percent of the F80 M3, and there's a very elementary reason why. If they raise the price significantly, they will simply invite the target market to go buy the equivalent Mercedes, Audi, Alfa Romeo, or Tesla product instead.