[xlover]

Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak

The 30HP difference is negligible. What bothers me is that they are late to the game in terms of adding viable tech like digital dashboards and they have the audacity to charge a premium over every other competitor and offer virtually little standard options.

Listen, I understand a driving purist getting a naked M3 and using his phone as a nav because they want that RWD driving experience, but who is going to go that route with an M340? If there's someone thats going to fork up money for a 6 cylinder, 350+HP sports sedan, they obviously have the money and will go with a fully loaded M3.

The M340 really isn't that special, so why the hell isolate a potential buyer base and make it seem like its so special?

The thing is, a fully loaded G80 M3 is probably going to be pushing low 80s in the next gen maybe 90k if not more with the carbon brakes... I think 65-70k vs 80-85k is a pretty meaningful price gap for similarly equip loaded models

The S4 really does come out of this as a relative bargain in the bare bones version. However, as I assume BMW is looking at when you aim for parity with BMWs offering, everything starts to even up..... for the S4 to get suspension/brakes/diff parity with the M340 you need to add a 2500 package which kicks you up to ~55k and now you are looking at pretty similar prices. The C43 is only slightly below at around 54k but add the exhaust for parity and now you are over 55k and they don't offer a diff. It looks like BMW has taken those factors into account as well as the typical annual price increase (M340 will be a 2020) and tacked on another 1500-2000 "we have free maintenance and this is the newest car and best driving experience of the 3 cars" premium

Like I noted above, I was really hoping the M340i would be a value in the lineup but instead BMW utilized every bit of their pricing leverage. I think this will reduce 6 cylinder units (maybe some conversions to loaded up 330i?) but drive margins higher as seems to be their goal as of late (see recent changes to leasing programs).

[alex2364]

Originally Posted by xlover

Like I noted above, I was really hoping the M340i would be a value in the lineup but instead BMW utilized every bit of their pricing leverage. I think this will reduce 6 cylinder units (maybe some conversions to loaded up 330i?) but drive margins higher as seems to be their goal as of late (see recent changes to leasing programs).

Their goal of driving margins higher on leased M cars is pushing into Porsche money, which will push people into Porsche. I've been seeing quotes of $1000+/month for M2/M3/M4, which is nuts. A Cayman GTS or base 911 isn't much more.

[hans007]

Originally Posted by ThatKrazyPolak

This is the stupidest move from a business standpoint. The M340 is essentially a poorer mans M3, but its goal is to remain on par with competitive 6 cylinder sedans and the top of the 3 series line. If your telling me I'm getting a naked 6 cylinder for more then 55K, then I'm sorry, but this is a ripoff.

An M3 starts at 66K, so by the time you deck out an M340 will all package options, it will, essentially, cost the same as an M3 which has a higher output anyway. The 10K price buffer is not really that competitive. This does not make any sense there is no incentive at that point to buy an M340. This is beyond frustrating.

Lets not even begin to describe the lack of competitive pricing as compared to an S4....

except the m3 with dct already starts at 70k. no doubt the new one will be even more. I bet a 8at m xdrive m3 end up costing $75 msrp

[RichReg]

WOW!
Price is even higher than I was guesstimating in the other thread.

Not sure I understand everyone's surprise...I mean, M-Sport was about $4800 on the outgoing model. However, excluding
Leather and premium sound DEFINITELY a dick move by BMWNA. Geez...first the ED discount gets
cut down; now you can't even get a six-cylinder engine without buying M-Sport. Might as well buy a 5 Series at these prices.

[hans007]

Originally Posted by RichReg

WOW!
Price is even higher than I was guesstimating in the other thread.

Not sure I understand everyone's surprise...I mean, M-Sport was about $4800 on the outgoing model. However, excluding
Leather and premium sound DEFINITELY a dick move by BMWNA. Geez...first the ED discount gets
cut down; now you can't even get a six-cylinder engine without buying M-Sport. Might as well buy a 5 Series at these prices.

i had guessed maybe 54k for a rwd. pretty close.

Its not just m-sport, its basically an m-sport with msport brakes, m-diff and a mppk added. I think an m-sport 340i right now starts at what 49-50k in rwd? I don't think for me its what I'd get, but the going over the 50k barrier starting probably is what is making it seem extra expensive, but you do get more than a f30 m-sport for it.

[WestCoast76]

Any idea of the price for the European market ?

[praxis218]

Originally Posted by hans007

i had guessed maybe 54k for a rwd. pretty close.

Its not just m-sport, its basically an m-sport with msport brakes, m-diff and a mppk added. I think an m-sport 340i right now starts at what 49-50k in rwd? I don't think for me its what I'd get, but the going over the 50k barrier starting probably is what is making it seem extra expensive, but you do get more than a f30 m-sport for it.

I think the only people this price point hurts is the ones who want a stripped out 340i. Personally I would want the options anyway.

Also I am glad they are discontinuing the 320i. It's kind of annoying when out on the road I can barely tell the difference outwardly between my car and something you can buy for $11,500 used right now.

[RichReg]

Originally Posted by hans007

I think an m-sport 340i right now starts at what 49-50k in rwd? I don't think for me its what I'd get, but the going over the 50k barrier starting probably is what is making it seem extra expensive, but you do get more than a f30 m-sport for it.

Yeah, forgot 'bout that MPPK built in. You'd think that really wouldn't cost them that much more when it's part of the production car. Also forgot that currently, BMWNA's throwing in M-Sport free of charge. Which doesn't change the fact that for many years, the $49k base used to be WITHOUT any M-Sport package attached.

Guess a price comparo isn't as easy as it seems...

[ReRe]

Comparing this to an f30 with similar options (Msport, Mppsk, MLSD, and other goodies), this is actually a bargain... comparing it to what it should cost however is an entirely different story.

[JasonX4MComp]

Also doesn't make sense that they are charging for the HK on the G20 when it is currently standard equipment

[upsidedownfunnel]

Originally Posted by undecided

The damn nav is the same nav as in every other kia/hyundai. It looks like idrive's poor cousin from National Lampoon's Xmas Vacation.

I think that Kia/Hyundai's media interface is better than most non-luxury car brands. But yes, for a luxury car it is not very attractive. They could improve the graphics a bit and maybe add in some animations to make it look better. From what I hear, it is a functional and quick system though.

But we're talking about the interior, not the electronics. The interior fit and finish and materials quality are better than an F30. Hands down.

[upsidedownfunnel]

Originally Posted by Jason335iMsport

Also doesn't make sense that they are charging for the HK on the G20 when it is currently standard equipment

HK only came standard on the latest models (since 2017 I believe). This is pretty common to bundle in things near the end of a car's life cycle. For instance, the LCI E90 cars all had full LED tail lights and turn signals while the 2012-2015 F30 used incandescent bulbs.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by xlover

The thing is, a fully loaded G80 M3 is probably going to be pushing low 80s in the next gen maybe 90k if not more with the carbon brakes... I think 65-70k vs 80-85k is a pretty meaningful price gap for similarly equip loaded models

The S4 really does come out of this as a relative bargain in the bare bones version. However, as I assume BMW is looking at when you aim for parity with BMWs offering, everything starts to even up..... for the S4 to get suspension/brakes/diff parity with the M340 you need to add a 2500 package which kicks you up to ~55k and now you are looking at pretty similar prices. The C43 is only slightly below at around 54k but add the exhaust for parity and now you are over 55k and they don't offer a diff. It looks like BMW has taken those factors into account as well as the typical annual price increase (M340 will be a 2020) and tacked on another 1500-2000 "we have free maintenance and this is the newest car and best driving experience of the 3 cars" premium

Like I noted above, I was really hoping the M340i would be a value in the lineup but instead BMW utilized every bit of their pricing leverage. I think this will reduce 6 cylinder units (maybe some conversions to loaded up 330i?) but drive margins higher as seems to be their goal as of late (see recent changes to leasing programs).

I bought my 2018 S4 at the end of this past August.
I have the minimum as I don't want or need many options.
My S4 Premium Plus has the "S sport pkg", which includes the rear differential, adaptive suspension, red calipers, along with full Nappa leather, which is a nice feeling leather.
And I have the B&O audio system, heated seats, homelink garage door opener, keyless, driver aids (not the full pkg).
MSRP is $57,500.
Selling price was astounding low, but then it's a model year end car.

Comparing MSRP to MSRP, the new M340i AWD is about $57K and does not have the additional items of my S4.
The M340i at that price has the base audio system.
No leather seats. Likely $1500 at least.
No heated seats. Likely $500.
Adaptive suspension is extra, likely in package. Maybe $800-$1000 if stand-alone.
B&O audio, at least $900.

That's about $3000 to $4000 more to get it near equivalent in content to the S4.
So, $60,000 to $61,000 modestly optioned.

If I had not received the great deal on the S4 that I did, I wouldn't have gone with it. The current 340i Msport optioned similarly to the S4, with AWD, is a bit LESS than the S4.

To raise the price that much for the new M340i, without having at least leather and the HK audio, which is standard on the current 340i, is a big ask in light of the competition.

Granted, I'm not a big fan of my S4. My 2016 340i Msport was and still is more fun to drive, and it actually feels faster all around.
My S4 feels a bit more solid though, and the overall materials and design are nicer, imo, compared to the current 340i Msport.

Still, all purchases have a price sensitivity.
BMW, at least for now, seems to be asking a big jump in price for less content, just because it's a new model.
Well, the current S4 is also a new model, as it was new for the 2017 model year.

I'm not at all saying that the price is "too high" for the market.
I'm just saying that, for me, by way of comparison with other offerings from direct competitors, BMW have priced it a bit over the top. If BMW included leather and the best audio system, and the asked $57K, well then I would see a much greater "value" in that asking price as it would now have added base/standard content for the increased price.
But, that is not what BMW did.
This new base M340i is actually de-contented from what the current 340i Msport includes at a lower price.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by praxis218

I think the only people this price point hurts is the ones who want a stripped out 340i. Personally I would want the options anyway.

Also I am glad they are discontinuing the 320i. It's kind of annoying when out on the road I can barely tell the difference outwardly between my car and something you can buy for $11,500 used right now.

I agree with your first point.
I am one who does not want many options, as I want the performance bits and am willing to pay for those.

Whether or not this new M340i is good as a "loaded" car is yet to be determined, as we don't have the pricing sheets and ordering requirements for the options.

As for what I "look like' on the road, for me, I don't care at all.
The only person I want to impress with my car, is, ME.

The vast majority of people driving on the roads with us really don't want to be driving at all. They want big and TALL SUV's, which are dynamically compromised by the basic design. But, that makes those commuters "feel" safer.
That's fine as it's their choice.
And thus, that is why it does not matter in the least of my variant "looks like" the lower content variant.

[hans007]

Originally Posted by RPM90

I bought my 2018 S4 at the end of this past August.
I have the minimum as I don't want or need many options.
My S4 Premium Plus has the "S sport pkg", which includes the rear differential, adaptive suspension, red calipers, along with full Nappa leather, which is a nice feeling leather.
And I have the B&O audio system, heated seats, homelink garage door opener, keyless, driver aids (not the full pkg).
MSRP is $57,500.
Selling price was astounding low, but then it's a model year end car.

Comparing MSRP to MSRP, the new M340i AWD is about $57K and does not have the additional items of my S4.
The M340i at that price has the base audio system.
No leather seats. Likely $1500 at least.
No heated seats. Likely $500.
Adaptive suspension is extra, likely in package. Maybe $800-$1000 if stand-alone.
B&O audio, at least $900.

That's about $3000 to $4000 more to get it near equivalent in content to the S4.
So, $60,000 to $61,000 modestly optioned.

If I had not received the great deal on the S4 that I did, I wouldn't have gone with it. The current 340i Msport optioned similarly to the S4, with AWD, is a bit LESS than the S4.

To raise the price that much for the new M340i, without having at least leather and the HK audio, which is standard on the current 340i, is a big ask in light of the competition.

Granted, I'm not a big fan of my S4. My 2016 340i Msport was and still is more fun to drive, and it actually feels faster all around.
My S4 feels a bit more solid though, and the overall materials and design are nicer, imo, compared to the current 340i Msport.

Still, all purchases have a price sensitivity.
BMW, at least for now, seems to be asking a big jump in price for less content, just because it's a new model.
Well, the current S4 is also a new model, as it was new for the 2017 model year.

I'm not at all saying that the price is "too high" for the market.
I'm just saying that, for me, by way of comparison with other offerings from direct competitors, BMW have priced it a bit over the top. If BMW included leather and the best audio system, and the asked $57K, well then I would see a much greater "value" in that asking price as it would now have added base/standard content for the increased price.
But, that is not what BMW did.
This new base M340i is actually de-contented from what the current 340i Msport includes at a lower price.

gotta factor in free maintenance vs Audi care. and little things like the BMW having day a sensatec dash vs Audi not offering that etc.

the BMW does end up costing more though. as a current a4 owner I know the price comparison is usually in Audi's favor as it is so not really unexpected. that said I'd get a rwd BMW over an AWD Audi any day of the week if it was say a b9 a4 vs a g20 330i. even for the same price

[JasonX4MComp]

Originally Posted by upsidedownfunnel

HK only came standard on the latest models (since 2017 I believe). This is pretty common to bundle in things near the end of a car's life cycle. For instance, the LCI E90 cars all had full LED tail lights and turn signals while the 2012-2015 F30 used incandescent bulbs.

Should have pointed that out but yes, started in 2016 with the LCI

[alex2364]

Originally Posted by hans007

gotta factor in free maintenance vs Audi care. and little things like the BMW having day a sensatec dash vs Audi not offering that etc.

the BMW does end up costing more though. as a current a4 owner I know the price comparison is usually in Audi's favor as it is so not really unexpected. that said I'd get a rwd BMW over an AWD Audi any day of the week if it was say a b9 a4 vs a g20 330i. even for the same price

Free maintenance gets me 3 oil changes. That’s it. It’s worth $500 max at the dealer.

[Eriphill]

Originally Posted by hans007

except the m3 with dct already starts at 70k. no doubt the new one will be even more. I bet a 8at m xdrive m3 end up costing $75 msrp

An awd M3? Is that happening? I've been waiting for this day

[aitsu]

Originally Posted by Eriphill

An awd M3? Is that happening? I've been waiting for this day

Yes:

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1560276

From the article:

"This car will be rear-wheel drive," he said. "But we will have an all-wheel drive derivative too."

[ScottAndrew]

Originally Posted by ReRe

Comparing this to an f30 with similar options (Msport, Mppsk, MLSD, and other goodies), this is actually a bargain... comparing it to what it should cost however is an entirely different story.

Are you arguing for cost-plus pricing controls? What it should cost, given that RoW sales (where even ex-tax prices are higher) are arguably subsiding yours, may be even higher than $56k.

In any event, the price is irrelevant to this forum, as the car is clearly not going to sell many units. Kias and manual-transmission four-pot Hyundais I expect to sell like hot cakes...

[Falafel Combo]

So what's the point really? Unless a base M3 starts over $70k this car will be priced out of its segment.

[BMV///M3]

Wow....i was considering one to replace my M3 next June to hold me over till the G80, but optioned out my M3 was 69k and change. No way i'd pay over 60k for a 3 series unless the residual was mid 60's. You can get an S4 or S5 sportback for less than this....BMW might have priced themselves out of this one.