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      07-30-2019, 06:15 PM   #45
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Whoever greenlighted the 8 series design should be fired. Total flop IMO.

Gran Coupe might sell, and the only thing I would choose from the lineup would be the M8 Gran Coupe.
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      07-30-2019, 06:15 PM   #46
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My sister has one and loves it. Skinny seats and all.
I actually like the X2 more as well. Every time I drive the X1 I actually get a headache and I'm not sure why.

What I find odd about all of this is, Audi is going in the opposite direction, they are expanding their line-up while BMW is rumored to be killing some instead? What are we missing?
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      07-30-2019, 06:20 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Or those college grads will skip both of them and just call Uber or Lift, or use a ride share app.

A good friend of mine just gave her car to her grandfather, and never looked back.

According to her it's not worth owning a car in the city.

A major sign of the times ahead.
Yeah, I live in a city, and really the only reason I own a car (my wife has one, too) is that I'm an enthusiast. Nearly all of the miles I put on my car are fun miles.
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      07-30-2019, 06:25 PM   #48
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This is pretty much my sentiment too - keep putting 6MT in the M2/M3/M4 and I'm set.

However, BMW seriously has needed consolidation in the lineup for years. Do we really need coupe SUVs, M Performance cars and switching out the coupes and convertibles into even numbered models? I think it should be something like this:

1 (120i/130i/M1)
3 (330i/340i/M3 Sedan/Coupe/Convertible)
5 (530/540i/550i M5 Sedan/Coupe/Convertible)
7 (740i LWB, 750i, LWB)
X1 (30i)
X3 (30i, 40i, X3 M)
X5 (40i, 50i, X5 M)
X7 (40i, 50i)
Z4 (30i, 40i, M)
i3
i8
Couldn't have said it better.

Oh you want a 4 door version of the 4/6/8 series? Buy a 5 or 7 series then!! The gran coupe concept needs to go away. I like the 8 series and I'm sad to see it is going away but maybe that's part of the cool factor, every so often the 6 and 8 series gets revived, makes it special.

I also refuse to believe that Bmws lower end cars are not contributing to their bottom line. Consolidation of all the engines offered abroad I feel would help minimize production costs as well.
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      07-30-2019, 06:28 PM   #49
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Yeah, I live in a city, and really the only reason I own a car (my wife has one, too) is that I'm an enthusiast. Nearly all of the miles I put on my car are fun miles.
Same for myself.

Low mile M Car. Office is 5 minutes from home.

BMW needs to start offering low mile 5k-7500 annual leases
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      07-30-2019, 06:29 PM   #50
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all you really need is a 2,3,5,7 as well as an x3,x5,x7

have i and m versions of all... all problems solved... no GTs/GCs maybe only a 3 series vert
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      07-30-2019, 06:32 PM   #51
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Honestly think they're making the wise choice here.

It's proven fact that the 2-seat convertible market is long dead and Toyota is certainly benefiting more from the partnership than BMW.

It's proven fact that the SUV market is the most popular and profitable market in the segment.

Furthermore, the 8 series just wasn't impressive or revolutionary enough to generate enough buzz to keep it popular. In short, it was a major flop.

Why anyone is still making coupe SUVs is beyond me. All BMW needs is to leave M cars alone, trim out all the coupe SUVs, and abandon the z4 and 8 series.
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      07-30-2019, 06:39 PM   #52
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I'll buy an X8.
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      07-30-2019, 06:50 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco_Bueno View Post
Honestly think they're making the wise choice here.

It's proven fact that the 2-seat convertible market is long dead and Toyota is certainly benefiting more from the partnership than BMW.

It's proven fact that the SUV market is the most popular and profitable market in the segment.

Furthermore, the 8 series just wasn't impressive or revolutionary enough to generate enough buzz to keep it popular. In short, it was a major flop.

Why anyone is still making coupe SUVs is beyond me. All BMW needs is to leave M cars alone, trim out all the coupe SUVs, and abandon the z4 and 8 series.
The 2 seat sports car market is booming 💥 at Porsche ‼️

Porsche doesn't have a shoe for every foot, and as such their business model is absolutely splendid.
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      07-30-2019, 06:52 PM   #54
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I've criticized BMW in the past for mushrooming their line-up to a ridiculous level without any coherent strategy or focus, while shoving the enthusiast community to the side with watered down M-models and ///Marketing-driven model line-ups (e.g. M-Performance cars with more M badges than the real ones).

We have 1-8 series vehicles fully populated with GT, GC, "M-Performance," i-Performance and real M variants, along with every single number in the X1-X7 range (and X8 coming shortly). That's in addition to the Z4 and new line-up of iX electric version.

When you've spread this thin and lost focus of your real enthusiast community who have been fiercely loyal through thick and thin, there isn't a whole lot that can be done short-term. Predictably, BMW is cutting models that don't sell well, and this failed strategy by many brands in the past isn't going to turn the company around. As Winston Churchil aptly put it, "those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it".

I really hope BMW wakes up and realize that it needs to focus on much fewer models (maybe 4 sendans, 2 coupes, 3 SUVs) that make the prospective buyers passionate about the cars again.

The last time that I've felt that way about BMW was the e92 M3. My G30 was total utilitarian purchase that could've gone to any number of brands.
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      07-30-2019, 06:56 PM   #55
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You have to love how these things are always twisted to blame the market and not the product.

BMW makes woefully subpar products especially when you consider the price.

The 8 series is pathetic for its price. It literally looks like a cheap Chinese knockoff car.

These days it's hard to tell if their cars are like this because they've bled out all talent or are purposely trying to look like cheap knockoff cars with tacky details all over.

I used to buy only bmw until around 2012. Fast forward to now and I wouldn't touch anything in the lineup with a 10 foot pole. They are ugly, tacky, low quality materials, overly stiff, big and generally boring to drive.

I suspect there are many with the same quite obvious opinion. Bmw ran with the fallacy that designing cars for china was the answer. Well it isn't and I hope the chickens continue to come home to roost.

Maybee if BMW starts seriously bleeding money someone will have the bright idea to stop blaming the market and start producing a quality product again.
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      07-30-2019, 06:56 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
The 2 seat sports car market is booming 💥 at Porsche ‼️

Porsche doesn't have a shoe for every foot, and as such their business model is absolutely splendid.
Porsche is still around is because of their SUVs.
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      07-30-2019, 06:58 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeamerandBimmer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
The 2 seat sports car market is booming 💥 at Porsche ‼️

Porsche doesn't have a shoe for every foot, and as such their business model is absolutely splendid.
Porsche is still around is because of their SUVs.
Correct you are.

But they only have two of them.

And they build two of the nicest in the industry.

Porsche doesn't just throw sh*t at the wall and hope it sticks.
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      07-30-2019, 07:00 PM   #58
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Is anyone really surprised?

- 4-Cyl as the primary engine
- Anything that made a BMW a BMW is gone (door locks at center dash, RWD, etc)
- Entry level segment vehicles are devaluing the brand
- An M car and an M-Performance car are too close in performance and looks
- M pricing is ridiculous. A $130k for an M8?

They have too many models that the overlapping with each other.

The model line is cluttered and confusing.

This is expected.
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      07-30-2019, 07:03 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
Is anyone really surprised?

- 4-Cyl as the primary engine
- Anything that made a BMW a BMW is gone (door locks at center dash, RWD, etc)
- Entry level segment vehicles are devaluing the brand
- An M car and an M-Performance car are too close in performance and looks
- M pricing is ridiculous. A $130k for an M8?

They have too many models that the overlapping with each other.

The model line is cluttered and confusing.

This is expected.
Bingo ‼️
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      07-30-2019, 07:04 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeamerandBimmer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
The 2 seat sports car market is booming 💥 at Porsche ‼️

Porsche doesn't have a shoe for every foot, and as such their business model is absolutely splendid.
Porsche is still around is because of their SUVs.
Correct you are.

But they only have two of them.

And they build two of the nicest in the industry.

Porsche doesn't just throw sh*t at the wall and hope it sticks.
You really don't need more than that. BMW chases MB and Audi on everything they do. I see so many BMWs now that the brand just doesn't hold the same value to me any more.

Area is packed with X1s and 320s. Same with MBs, GLAs and CLAs everywhere.

Porsche though, is Porsche.
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      07-30-2019, 07:07 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeamerandBimmer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
The 2 seat sports car market is booming 💥 at Porsche ‼️

Porsche doesn't have a shoe for every foot, and as such their business model is absolutely splendid.
Porsche is still around is because of their SUVs.
Correct you are.

But they only have two of them.

And they build two of the nicest in the industry.

Porsche doesn't just throw sh*t at the wall and hope it sticks.
Porsche really makes nice looking cars!!!!

PLUS the PROFIT is an estimated $17,250 for every car, according to Bloomberg, and BMW, Audi and Mercedes each make about $10,500 average per car, according to Motor Authority.
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      07-30-2019, 07:08 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeamerandBimmer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
The 2 seat sports car market is booming 💥 at Porsche ‼️

Porsche doesn't have a shoe for every foot, and as such their business model is absolutely splendid.
Porsche is still around is because of their SUVs.
I always read this horribly false argument. Usually from ppl that actually believe the garbage talentless marketing ppl from auto manufacturers feed the public.

Each 911 continues to be the best iteration of what it is meant to be at the time. That is because Porsche puts effort and quality into the 911. 911 = Porsche.

This is irrespective of the cayenne.

Can anyone honestly say the 3 series has improved over the last 2 generations? Maybee Camry drivers. But not anyone with an ounce of love for driving.

Guess what BMW sells many more x5 then Porsche sells cayenne. By that logic the 3 series should be the greatest of all time.

It's not because it's false logic fed to morons by morons.

A bad product is a bad product. It has nothing to do with what or how many of another product you sell
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      07-30-2019, 07:13 PM   #63
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Quote:
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Porsche is still around is because of their SUVs.
I don't believe that for a minute. Maybe certain models like the 918 and a couple models like the GT2/GT3/GT4 , but the entire brand does is in no way dependent on a single model.
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      07-30-2019, 07:16 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeamerandBimmer View Post
Porsche is still around is because of their SUVs.
I don't believe that for a minute. Maybe certain models like the 918 and a couple models like the GT2/GT3/GT4 , but the entire brand does is in no way dependent on a single model.
They are still around because the sales are increasing each year and the PROFIT per car is huge. See below
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/17/prof...s-per-car.html
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      07-30-2019, 07:18 PM   #65
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in the beginning of 90's, BMW was success story, basic model lineup: 3,5,7 and odd Z3, then comes X5 which was success as well, then X3, disaster, 1 series, disaster apart from 1M, then X1, 2 series Scenic, 5GT, 3GT, all disasters.
BMW should stick with 3 and 4 series based on same platform: one sedan one coupe, M3,M4,
5 and 6 series plus M5 M6,
7 and 7iL no M,
X5 no M,
One lightweight Supercar/Racecar/New technology pioneer/Poster/Dream.
Simple.
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      07-30-2019, 07:19 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M TOWN View Post
Correct you are.

But they only have two of them.

And they build two of the nicest in the industry.

Porsche doesn't just throw sh*t at the wall and hope it sticks.
Porsche has far more than just two.

Cayenne is expanding into coupe versions aka X6 types. The newly updated Macan's are rumored to be getting a full EV version soon too. Soon to probably get an updated GTS and Turbo version.

Not to mention both Cayenne and Macan has multiple engine options. Base, S, GTS and Turbo for both. Soon, Cayenne will have a coupe version with roughly the same engine options too.

BMW needs to expand in a meaningful way, not just come up with a bunch of base versions that people won't buy. How many people would buy a 6, 7, 8 series that are under age 50? I get the feeling whoever is behind the product expansion didn't properly think the age group they are targeting.
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