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      05-15-2019, 12:28 AM   #2201
ynguldyn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankchn View Post
Thanks for the information. Can I assume that the F90 will get whatever the rest of the G30 line-up gets, which means the M8-style Live Dash and iDrive 7 later this year as MY2020?
Yes.
Quote:
Do you know if the brake adjustment in the M8 will trickle down to the F90 at LCI, or are we waiting until the G60-based M5 for that?
No clue.
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      05-15-2019, 10:21 AM   #2202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
I truly believe (translation: I'm speculating here, not reporting facts) this whole mess was caused by WLTP. If not for that, all Z4 M40i's would've had B58O1 so that all M Performance 3/4 series cars (as of right now, X3 M40i, M340i, and Z4 M40i)
X4 M40i too, but I know what you meant.

Quote:
would have had the same power in all world markets. Something (mostly likely packaging) prevented BMW engineers from installing the same emissions hardware in Z4 as they could in M340i. That resulted in the European Z4 M40i that got its wings kinda clipped with B58M1. Naturally the same had to happen to the Supra (because it's a freaking BMW, people! enough with that "Tada-san this, Tada-san that" kool-aid, OK?) for the WLTP markets, and Toyota just went with this for all other markets, probably for simplicity and cost savings.
This makes a lot of sense and sounds utterly plausible. I was baffled when it was revealed that the M340i wasn't castrated in WLTP countries like the Z4 M40i is, and this could explain it.

Quote:
And then they had a change of heart - very recently. From what I can see, this likely happened in 2018, no earlier than that, so it could well be in response to the early feedback when the 335hp figure leaked and everyone and their mother started talking about it being a ridiculously low number for a Supra.
But, if your speculation above is true, WLTP nations would still be SOL, unless they (BMW, Toyota, or both BMW and Toyota) have now figured out how to put the O1 under the hood, compete with all of its emissions gear. Hopefully that is the case. And while they are at it, hopefully they figured out the same thing for the S58. It's insane to have the smallest, sportiest iteration of CLAR missing out on the hot powerplants. Heck, unless they went back to the drawing board completely for the version of CLAR that will underpin the G87, they needed to get this all sorted out anyway.
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      05-15-2019, 10:41 AM   #2203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
Yeah, this jives really well with what I see. Toyota is likely planning to sell the two versions alongside each other, and they'll need to give the higher powered version some distinguishing label. "Track" would work for the purpose.

I truly believe (translation: I'm speculating here, not reporting facts) this whole mess was caused by WLTP. If not for that, all Z4 M40i's would've had B58O1 so that all M Performance 3/4 series cars (as of right now, X3 M40i, M340i, and Z4 M40i) would have had the same power in all world markets. Something (mostly likely packaging) prevented BMW engineers from installing the same emissions hardware in Z4 as they could in M340i. That resulted in the European Z4 M40i that got its wings kinda clipped with B58M1. Naturally the same had to happen to the Supra (because it's a freaking BMW, people! enough with that "Tada-san this, Tada-san that" kool-aid, OK?) for the WLTP markets, and Toyota just went with this for all other markets, probably for simplicity and cost savings. And then they had a change of heart - very recently. From what I can see, this likely happened in 2018, no earlier than that, so it could well be in response to the early feedback when the 335hp figure leaked and everyone and their mother started talking about it being a ridiculously low number for a Supra.

And while we're on the subject - how did you guys at suprakmv arrive at the idea that the difference between B58M1 and B58O1 is just the manifold? You never had to deal with BMW engineering solutions, have you? Observe:

https://bimmercat.com/bmw/EN/search/...8D/ECE/11_7972
https://bimmercat.com/bmw/EN/search/...8C/ECE/11_7809

Yeah, the engine blocks are different. And then the cylinder heads and the pistons are different, and the turbochargers are not even close. And that's only the obvious things I bothered to compare.

So sure you can mod the M1 to get it to O1's output and beyond. But that will never get you an OEM equivalent.
In the past I also speculated that the I6 Supra could come in two tirms. I even asked members on this forum about that possibly like with the E89, but was shoot down when told the Supra would only get the B58B30M1.

Thanks for all of the info.
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      05-15-2019, 10:52 AM   #2204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
But, if your speculation above is true, WLTP nations would still be SOL
From what I can see, this is exactly what will happen. All higher powered Supras are configured for non-European markets.
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      05-15-2019, 01:42 PM   #2205
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For the same engine power is the S58 potentially more efficient than the B58? It has a lower compression but the twin turbos and extra lag might help out a bit for the fuel tests?

My comment around lag is based on the fact that if the engine isn't coming on boost at all it can run leaner and hotter. Compared to perhaps a small turbo engine that comes onto boost super quick and needs to drop the AFR down to keep things cool and stop detonation?

In saying that I'm not trying to say that the Z4/Supra will ever get the S58
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      05-16-2019, 01:35 AM   #2206
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Will there be a facelift of the X4?
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      05-16-2019, 03:40 AM   #2207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
  • US X5 xDrive45e has been delayed until 2020 (MY2021).
  • The evolution of G30 is a surprisingly convoluted matter because of the timing of different new technologies, and I'd like to recap the current knowledge for clarity:
    - Later this year, G30 will receive new engines (T versions of the existing lineup). For the U.S. market models, only M550i will get a sizeable improvement to 530hp with all other models simply getting some incremental optimization. However, in the rest of the world, something new is coming in 520d. It will be a new energy conserving tech. Whether it is the 48V system or something more than that I just can't say.
    - At the same time, Live Dash will be added as an option on lower end models and standard on others.
    - In 2020, G30 LCI will be released. At that point all significant new technology will be already installed on the pre-LCI G30 models so the LCI is going to be almost entirely cosmetical. The only new additions I see are the spread of the same energy conserving tech to other models (by then, G30 won't be unique at that) and Driving Assistant Pro (the functionality first released on G05 X5) - for some reason G30 seems to be last in the line of models getting that option.
Do you know if the 530e will get the same XtraBoost function (extra 41hp from the electric motor for a short time) as the 330e? Since the MY 2020 will get the same 12 kWh battery as the upcoming 330e.
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      05-17-2019, 02:53 PM   #2208
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Looks like the X5 and X7 won't get the V8 upgrade nor change to M50i for the start of MY2020. Perhaps later in MY2020? Or maybe not until MY2021?
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      05-17-2019, 03:19 PM   #2209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Looks like the X5 and X7 won't get the V8 upgrade nor change to M50i for the start of MY2020. Perhaps later in MY2020? Or maybe not until MY2021?
A few more months. This measures update is for July 2019, and Spartanburg switches models in August (or December if they don't make it for August), and you need to add transportation time across the Atlantic.
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      05-18-2019, 06:47 PM   #2210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynamike View Post
Will there be a facelift of the X4?
There will always be an LCI. Typically 3.5 to 4 years after the initial launch.
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      05-18-2019, 11:25 PM   #2211
ynguldyn
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Significant changes to G8x forecasting. Please see the latest update to the top post.

Discussion here:

https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1577975
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      05-19-2019, 11:46 AM   #2212
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Also, the Z4 20i will be available as 6MT (similar to the G20 320i) in Europe from mid-2019, haven't seen that mentioned on here (or the Z4 forum) yet.
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      05-19-2019, 12:55 PM   #2213
ynguldyn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbanck View Post
Also, the Z4 20i will be available as 6MT (similar to the G20 320i) in Europe from mid-2019, haven't seen that mentioned on here (or the Z4 forum) yet.
As stated in the top post:
Quote:
- These are just US market models, EU is simply too varied to type in all combinations.
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      05-19-2019, 01:31 PM   #2214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
Yeah, this jives really well with what I see. Toyota is likely planning to sell the two versions alongside each other, and they'll need to give the higher powered version some distinguishing label. "Track" would work for the purpose.

I truly believe (translation: I'm speculating here, not reporting facts) this whole mess was caused by WLTP. If not for that, all Z4 M40i's would've had B58O1 so that all M Performance 3/4 series cars (as of right now, X3 M40i, M340i, and Z4 M40i) would have had the same power in all world markets. Something (mostly likely packaging) prevented BMW engineers from installing the same emissions hardware in Z4 as they could in M340i. That resulted in the European Z4 M40i that got its wings kinda clipped with B58M1. Naturally the same had to happen to the Supra (because it's a freaking BMW, people! enough with that "Tada-san this, Tada-san that" kool-aid, OK?) for the WLTP markets, and Toyota just went with this for all other markets, probably for simplicity and cost savings. And then they had a change of heart - very recently. From what I can see, this likely happened in 2018, no earlier than that, so it could well be in response to the early feedback when the 335hp figure leaked and everyone and their mother started talking about it being a ridiculously low number for a Supra.

And while we're on the subject - how did you guys at suprakmv arrive at the idea that the difference between B58M1 and B58O1 is just the manifold? You never had to deal with BMW engineering solutions, have you? Observe:

https://bimmercat.com/bmw/EN/search/...8D/ECE/11_7972
https://bimmercat.com/bmw/EN/search/...8C/ECE/11_7809

Yeah, the engine blocks are different. And then the cylinder heads and the pistons are different, and the turbochargers are not even close. And that's only the obvious things I bothered to compare.

So sure you can mod the M1 to get it to O1's output and beyond. But that will never get you an OEM equivalent.
Can you tell if the B58 O1 with OPF will come into the Z4 M40i (maybe as an M40is) for MY2020 in the EU? I would really like to order this car with the bigger engine. I was hoping the reason BMW used the M1 engine version is not because of packaging, but because of timeline issues (M340i is the first car with O1 OPF and its coming later to the dealers than the Z4 M40i.)
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      05-19-2019, 03:31 PM   #2215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verheizer View Post
Can you tell if the B58 O1 with OPF will come into the Z4 M40i (maybe as an M40is) for MY2020 in the EU? I would really like to order this car with the bigger engine. I was hoping the reason BMW used the M1 engine version is not because of packaging, but because of timeline issues (M340i is the first car with O1 OPF and its coming later to the dealers than the Z4 M40i.)
See https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...postcount=2208
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      05-19-2019, 05:59 PM   #2216
ynguldyn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verheizer View Post
Can you tell if the B58 O1 with OPF will come into the Z4 M40i (maybe as an M40is) for MY2020 in the EU? I would really like to order this car with the bigger engine. I was hoping the reason BMW used the M1 engine version is not because of packaging, but because of timeline issues (M340i is the first car with O1 OPF and it‘s coming later to the dealers than the Z4 M40i.)
I don't see any hints of O1 for European Z4s in the foreseeable future.
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      05-21-2019, 04:15 AM   #2217
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ynguldyn do you still expect the x3/x4 to get the new dash in August this year? BMW issued a press release for model updates for summer 2019 and the new dash isn't mentioned.

See:https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...19?language=en
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      05-21-2019, 08:23 PM   #2218
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Anybody know if the M340i merino leather options from the recent press release will be available in the US? Trying to decide whether to place an order now or wait for merino.
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      05-22-2019, 11:13 AM   #2219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
A few more months. This measures update is for July 2019, and Spartanburg switches models in August (or December if they don't make it for August), and you need to add transportation time across the Atlantic.
As usual you were right on.
Those x5 M50 upgrades are really nice. M dif and M brakes are standard...
Bravo BMW
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      05-22-2019, 10:04 PM   #2220
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So, we don't talk about BMW motorcycles here, which is why I'm not adding this to the top post - but have you ever heard of a BMW M motorcycle? Me neither - until now. Apparently, BMW wants to take their liter superbike, S 1000 RR, and make M 1000 RR. I mean, it's already a 200hp machine in a 200kg body, how much more hardcore can you get?
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      05-22-2019, 10:34 PM   #2221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
A few more months. This measures update is for July 2019, and Spartanburg switches models in August (or December if they don't make it for August), and you need to add transportation time across the Atlantic.
Looks like it’ll be December then - the press release says “fall”.

I wonder where they’ll slide the F95 (and F96 too?) in.
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      05-22-2019, 10:48 PM   #2222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
Yes.No clue.
I have a few questions if you don't mind in regards to the 2020 X4 M40I.

How likely are they to receive the full digital dash in august?
I've heard rumors of a power increase as well but everyone is saying different things.

Thanks a bunch
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