[Bris-M340i]

Am I the only one here that is perplexed about this constant talk of the lack of steering feel in current BMW’s? I just don’t get it. I came from a Mazda 6 which gets good reviews about its steering feel and yes I can tell a slight difference but not enough for me to worry about. Perhaps it’s the amazing overall feeling I get from driving my M340 that stops me focusing so much on one negative, not sure.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Bris-M340i

Am I the only one here that is perplexed about this constant talk of the lack of steering feel in current BMW's? I just don't get it. I came from a Mazda 6 which gets good reviews about its steering feel and yes I can tell a slight difference but not enough for me to worry about. Perhaps it's the amazing overall feeling I get from driving my M340 that stops me focusing so much on one negative, not sure.

Its only perplexing if you haven't owned a BMW before 2012, if this is your 1st BMW its a non-issue, though for us long timers, also referred to as "dinosaurs" its a huge difference in change from hydraulic to electric. The other issues is that even brands like Mazda and Honda can make more communicative and better steering than a brand that once prided themselves on their steering and handling prowess (as well as double the price of those cars). Strange times we live in.

[Bris-M340i]

Originally Posted by jstein55

Its only perplexing if you haven't owned a BMW before 2012, if this is your 1st BMW its a non-issue, though for us long timers, also referred to as "dinosaurs" its a huge difference in change from hydraulic to electric. The other issues is that even brands like Mazda and Honda can make more communicative and better steering than a brand that once prided themselves on their steering and handling prowess (as well as double the price of those cars). Strange times we live in.

Understand but haven’t all mainstream manufacturers moved to electric steering which is a sign of the times and required to get all the smarts such as lane keep assist (which I personally don’t care for), etc? They will never be able to replicate something that used to be mechanical in the new electric world.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Bris-M340i

Understand but haven't all mainstream manufacturers moved to electric steering which is a sign of the times and required to get all the smarts such as lane keep assist (which I personally don't care for), etc? They will never be able to replicate something that used to be mechanical in the new electric world.

I know, but I mentioned that even with EPS BMW is behind mainstream automakers like Mazda, Honda and even Kia when it comed to EPS tuning. Having bad EPS is one thing, but when $20k compact cars have better steering its just a bit ridiculous. There is good EPS out there. Alfa, Porsche, GM, Honda, Mazda, and Ford (GT350) have figured it out.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by alpinewhite3

Fair point- but the overall off center ratio in the 330i and 330i M sport is both 14.1:1, so i'd imagine they both behave somewhat similarly.

The 330xi steering is even slower at 15.1:1. It must be...interesting.

THat being said i do see the m340i gets a bit of a quicker set up at 13.6:1. Kind of curious from other 340i drivers how that feels? It's not night and day but its def a bit quicker. But then again the 340i also has the old F30 rack so i dont know. I'll have to test drive it.

Curious what they will do with the new M3/M4. I understand that BMW refuses to budge on the ratios to cater to the German market for the autobahn...however, 99% of the rest of the world barely makes it above 80mph in daily driving.

Is steering ratio really the issue though? The M2C has a ratio of 15:1.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Is steering ratio really the issue though? The M2C has a ratio of 15:1.

I think he's just saying a quicker ratio similar to a Giulia or GTI would make the car more fun and feel more eager and agile when driving spiritedly.

[EXE46]

My last car was a 2016 Lexus 3IS and the steering is no better than my RWD M340i.The steering is a non issue to me, there is some vagueness aka dead spots sometimes but it's not consistent. I would also surmise that the LSD may also be a factor in how this car steers versus a non m sport car without LSD.

However as far as being agile where I can skip a piece of debris in the road at high speed with just a mere flick of the wrist is a no issue in my car. I would say the agility and maneuverability of this car defies it size.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by EXE46

My last car was a 2016 Lexus 3IS and the steering is no better than my RWD M340i.The steering is a non issue to me, there is some vagueness aka dead spots sometimes but it's not consistent. I would also surmise that the LSD may also be a factor in how this car steers versus a non m sport car without LSD.

However as far as being agile where I can skip a piece of debris in the road at high speed with just a mere flick of the wrist is a no issue in my car. I would say the agility and maneuverability of this car defies it size.

The interesting experience that I've had with the M340 is that it sometimes surprises me how well it handles - mainly because I don't expect it to. The steering doesn't give me the appropriate feedback to suggest that I'm able to take a turn as fast as I might, and then I'm genuinely surprised when it doesn't understeer.

That being said, my last car was a Q50 RS with atrocious steer-by-wire, so the M340 is definitely an improvement in steering.

[mcjohnsonsg]

Originally Posted by alpinewhite3

Fair point- but the overall off center ratio in the 330i and 330i M sport is both 14.1:1, so i'd imagine they both behave somewhat similarly.

The 330xi steering is even slower at 15.1:1. It must be...interesting.

THat being said i do see the m340i gets a bit of a quicker set up at 13.6:1. Kind of curious from other 340i drivers how that feels? It's not night and day but its def a bit quicker. But then again the 340i also has the old F30 rack so i dont know. I'll have to test drive it.

Curious what they will do with the new M3/M4. I understand that BMW refuses to budge on the ratios to cater to the German market for the autobahn...however, 99% of the rest of the world barely makes it above 80mph in daily driving.

I have an M340xdrive. While I could happily take the steering being a bit quicker (and having some feel!), I find it to be fine, and certainly have no issues getting out the way of potholes etc. I agree that the only real difference between comfort, sport and sport+ steering is some added weight. I normally drive in sport setting as like a little bit of heft to the steering.

[alpinewhite3]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

Is steering ratio really the issue though? The M2C has a ratio of 15:1.

It's a much smaller wheelbase. 15:1 on a M2C is not going to feel the same as 15:1 on a G20. This is why the GTI steering is lightning quick.

M2C is also much smaller so therefore more agile and nimble naturally. M2C's EPS rack is also tuned way better. It's linear, and predictable with no dead spots.

[alpinewhite3]

Originally Posted by Bris-M340i

Understand but haven’t all mainstream manufacturers moved to electric steering which is a sign of the times and required to get all the smarts such as lane keep assist (which I personally don’t care for), etc? They will never be able to replicate something that used to be mechanical in the new electric world.

I hate to beat a dead horse here but...i'm okay with EPS. I'm even okay with the steering having no "feel". Even Porsche's EPS systems can't replicate "feel" through EPS.

What perplexes me is BMW's piss poor EPS tuning...seems like consensus here is that everyone either finds it "fine" or "acceptable" which should really tell you a lot....Plus, the M340i dominates in so many other ways so many people will give the EPS rack a complete pass.

I just can't accept that a 50k 3 series(once a pinnacle, eg. truly the ultimate driving machine) has a steering that's not as finely tuned as a accord/civic sport, base VW golf, Kia Forte GT, Mazda 3, heck even the Ford mustang, etc. etc. It's astounding.

And again, this has nothing to do with feel. It needs to be quicker(obv), more natural and linear(too many dead spots), more consistent- it's direct and precise *sometimes* but other times it's dull and imbalanced

And most importantly- when i do this I would at least like the wheels to move or even react.

[EXE46]

Did you not test drive and realize the car steering is a non starter for you? Steering is something you notice instantly so if yours is as bad as you say, why did you sign off? For example, I test drove the Genesis 3.3T first and then the G20 and knew immediately after having test driven both that the Genesis was no longer a contender.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by EXE46

Did you not test drive and realize the car steering is a non starter for you? Steering is something you notice instantly so if yours is as bad as you say, why did you sign off? For example, I test drove the Genesis 3.3T first and then the G20 and knew immediately after having test driven both that the Genesis was no longer a contender.

Really? I find the Genesis' steering to be much better than the 3er. The 3er trumps it in many other areas, but steering isn't one in my opinion. Alfa Giulia is the gold standard for the class.

[Casone238]

M and AMG is not as exclusive as it useto be, but with that being said if your looking at M340i or a M550i and expecting it to be a M car you already missing it. It's not a M car it has some M parts and tuning but let's not compare the 2.

Coming from a C43 and people in my family and cars I've driven enough to come with a opinion ATS-V, CTS-V coupe, CLA 45 AMG, Evo X, civic type R, E39 530, golf R, c63 sedan, hellcat, Audi S4, few others I'm not going to name them all along with a few mainstream cars like altimas Acura's and accords.

M340i is a beautiful package that you can't go wrong with. It's agile, very fast, spacious and a beautiful interior and very comfortable with very good gas mileage. For the cars that it competes with it's clearly the best in the segment. For those that live in areas where we get snow it's perfect

I agree the steering could be better the design could of been better & I think it's too thick. As far as handling the stock tires is trash so if paired with some better shoes like the 4S sport should make a significant difference in handling

[EXE46]

Originally Posted by jstein55

Really? I find the Genesis' steering to be much better than the 3er. The 3er trumps it in many other areas, but steering isn't one in my opinion. Alfa Giulia is the gold standard for the class.

You got me there PI lol, I wasn't implying the steering. I meant the car in general to me lost out to the Bimmer due to other factors that were also important to me. One being the transmission, the 3.3T tranny is a hyundai unit and it is just an inferior transmission in its execution.

Also, I am very slim guy and didn't dare sit in the back because there simply was no room after the seats was set to my driving position. There were also aesthetics elements inside I detested. Namely the hyundai parts bin tacked on Navi/info-taintment system. Didn't care for the quilted seats either, maybe if they look like those in the GV80 I would have liked them lol. Also, fit and finish and interior appointments simply didn't feel as solid as my then current Lexus 3IS which was also a benchmark.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by EXE46

You got me there PI lol, I wasn't implying the steering. I meant the car in general to me lost out to the Bimmer due to other factors that were also important to me. One being the transmission, the 3.3T tranny is a hyundai unit and it is just an inferior transmission in its execution.

Also, I am very slim guy and didn't dare sit in the back because there simply was no room after the seats was set to my driving position. There were also aesthetics elements inside I detested. Namely the hyundai parts bin tacked on Navi/info-taintment system. Didn't care for the quilted seats either, maybe if they look like those in the GV80 I would have liked them lol. Also, fit and finish and interior appointments simply didn't feel as solid as my then current Lexus 3IS which was also a benchmark.

Agree. The 3er is just super close to being perfect, for me at least, it just lacks the manual transmission, steering feedback and a bit of a diet I'd want, so its a real shame that the M3 which will likely get all these things will be ugly as sin and will be a deal-breaker (those grills will never win my favor). Oh well... maybe next generation (hopefully it won't be electric by then)

[EXE46]

Electric ? That's where I draw the line. I'm not buying one, rather go back to an old classic bmw with manual tranny. There's no way I'm buying an electric car. As far as the G M cars just commit to never look at the grill lol. Put a mask on it lol because it's going to be an incredible machine. Most likely last gen with manual available.


PS don't get the AWD model

[NorCalAthlete]

Hypothetically, if the new 2-series were to get the G22 engine and interior, and it grew to the size of the current F gen 4-series (or within an inch or two, just as the G22 has grown) I might be more inclined to get that over the G22.

G22 dimensions : 187.7 / 72.9 / 54.4
F32 dimensions : 182.7 / 71.9 / 54.2
2-series dimensions (current) : 174.7 / 69.8 / 55.8

So if the 2 were to get that 382 hp B58, grow to say, 178 / 70 / 55, gain the G-series interior....that'd be perfect for me.

But since that's pretty unlikely I'll take the G22

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete

Hypothetically, if the new 2-series were to get the G22 engine and interior, and it grew to the size of the current F gen 4-series (or within an inch or two, just as the G22 has grown) I might be more inclined to get that over the G22.

G22 dimensions : 187.7 / 72.9 / 54.4
F32 dimensions : 182.7 / 71.9 / 54.2
2-series dimensions (current) : 174.7 / 69.8 / 55.8

So if the 2 were to get that 382 hp B58, grow to say, 178 / 70 / 55, gain the G-series interior....that'd be perfect for me.

But since that's pretty unlikely I'll take the G22

The one thing the 2er is missing to become the perfect vehicle is an extra set of doors.

[NorCalAthlete]

Originally Posted by jstein55

The one thing the 2er is missing to become the perfect vehicle is an extra set of doors.

Hey look, we've got a comedian on the forum!

Nah I like the 2 but it's just too small for me. I know some like it as the perfect track weapon and such but for daily driving / life I think it's too small.

[alpinewhite3]

Originally Posted by jstein55

The one thing the 2er is missing to become the perfect vehicle is an extra set of doors.

Instead we got the monstrosity that is the 2 series grand coupe. But seriously- a 2 series with 4 doors ? I’d buy that car and keep it for as long as it will go.

[alpinewhite3]

Originally Posted by NorCalAthlete

Hey look, we've got a comedian on the forum!

Nah I like the 2 but it's just too small for me. I know some like it as the perfect track weapon and such but for daily driving / life I think it's too small.

How times have changed. I remember back when the e46 was the perfect sized daily driver. Only 2 inches longer than the current 2 series! There was an uproar when the e90 came out and everyone called it a boat.