[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

Who?

The same enthusiasts who prefer slower manual transmissions.

The same enthusiasts who prefer slower RWD models to AWD models.

The same enthusiasts who prefer slower natural aspiration to turbo-charged engines.

It's not always about pure speed, sometimes it's about the experience.

But for those simply chasing the fastest 0 to 60 times, the coming EVs will certainly quench that thirst.

The M car will deliver that driving experience with their EV I am sure. M car is not just about straight-line, but also handling as I have mentioned. With 1000kw output those straight-line numbers should be easily achieved. With the battery pack likely below the CG and drive motors low to the ground the overall CG will likely be lower, improving handling. We will have to wait and see.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by XxThe_RemedyXx

When all ICE cars eventually go electric, what will we be talking about on these forums?

Barrett Jackson values of petrol M vehicles.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by HP Autosport

The M car will deliver that driving experience with their EV I am sure. M car is not just about straight-line, but also handling as I have mentioned. With 1000kw output those straight-line numbers should be easily achieved. With the battery pack likely below the CG and drive motors low to the ground the overall CG will likely be lower, improving handling. We will have to wait and see.

Quad motors and 100+kwh battery pack.

This will approach 5,000lbs or likely exceed it.

It is just more of the same, with where current battery tech is at the moment.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by MarkOK

The simplifications in this statement make me cringe. It's ignoring efficiencies and most externalities of various systems, and that we are playing with the margins here.

All things equal, right now, when you use electricity for your car, that 'extra power' is usually (in the US) being put into the grid with natural gas powered energy. Natural gas plants handle the delta between what the base plants + Renewables are already providing, and what the demand that day is. There are a few spots in the US where in certain days there is excess wind capacity (and the natural gas power plants are mostly off). In western OK, during a windy spring day, operators in Chicago (or somewhere) will remotely stop some of the wind turbines because there is too much energy in the system and no where for those electrons to go. In those sorts of rare cases, your EV power might actually come from wind. But, by and large, that extra power demand will be met with a natural gas power plant ramping up.

By the time you account for the efficiencies of that power production (for natural gas, it can be quite good -- as high as 38% perhaps!), and then the losses in distribution, and then between your battery and power applied, you pretty much just using 100% fossil fuels at about the same (or slightly worse) efficiency as an ICE (depending on the ICE. Most of my miles are on a Hybrid Prius that gets 50 mpg and only eats gas. It's really hard to beat that in terms of efficient use of fossil fuels per mile unless you do some very hadwavy analysis ignoring how grids operate)

I am a big proponent for reforms in the electrical grid, but figuring a way to ramp up renewables to deal with EVs is a wicked problem. There aren't any great solutions. I am annoyed at how laser focused politicians have been on electrification of cars when there are so many easier ways to deal with our environmental and sustainability issues.

While it is an oversimplification, the point is that the EV is adaptable to whatever the grid powers it. So as renewable technology progresses, the EV is already tooled to accept it.

[christianb5s4]

I am firmly in the ICE camp, for many reasons others have mentioned.

On the overarching notion that EVs will replace ICE, it's literally and technically impossible. There are not enough raw minerals and resources on earth to even make the batteries alone to replace every car in the United States, let alone the world, with electric vehicles. Let alone all the other aspects that make it unfeasible or the political agenda du jour.

Toyota, the largest car company on earth, has been very vocal about this fact. Hence why they are investing billions into hydrogen and other battery technologies.

https://techzle.com/toyota-insuffici...%20he%20argues.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

I don't believe it's going to hurt them, TBH. The media is putting pressure on them to "catch up" but I think they have the better long term strategy.

I guess for Toyota ignorance is bliss

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by MarkOK

I am annoyed at how laser focused politicians have been on electrification of cars when there are so many easier ways to deal with our environmental and sustainability issues.

Agreed.

You want BEV's? Require every municipal owned bus in the country to be a BEV. Require every mail truck, every final mile delivery truck to be a BEV. It makes perfect sense. Short, predictable routes. Stored at a fixed location with access to commercial level power.

You want hydrogen / fuel cells? Install hydrogen filling stations at ports, airport, etc. and run their vehicles on that. Plenty of space, etc.

Etc. ad nauseum.

But no. Those guys have lawyers and lobbyists and cry "oh my profits will take a hit and goods will go up and people won't be able to afford stuff and inflation". Oh, like forcing people to pay 50% more on a BEV that doesn't suit their lifestyle isn't worse?

I'm super pro EV....applied where it works, and as a choice! But then, no one accused politicians of being smart, on the up and up or both.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by M3WC

They just going to ignore this is on a sacred Native American burial ground? It goes from...US is stolen land from Native Americans, to finding the largest lithium deposit under Native American land...now its f*ck'em lets mine. Typical hypocrites.

Let's all hope the 1982 IMDA benefits the Native American tribes in this area, if, in fact, it is their land.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by ///M TOWN

I guess for Toyota ignorance is bliss

Ignorance of what? That it's more sensible to spend our resources building hybrid batteries for 10 vehicles and getting 50 MPG than it is 80-100 MPGE on one BEV? Ignorance of the fact that there's already consumer backlash over BEV's and BEV market share continues to creep along slowly, and only then increases when Tesla decides to drop their drawers?

[jmg]

Originally Posted by christianb5s4

I am firmly in the ICE camp, for many reasons others have mentioned.

On the overarching notion that EVs will replace ICE, it's literally and technically impossible. There are not enough raw minerals and resources on earth to even make the batteries alone to replace every car in the United States, let alone the world, with electric vehicles. Let alone all the other aspects that make it unfeasible or the political agenda du jour.

Toyota, the largest car company on earth, has been very vocal about this fact. Hence why they are investing billions into hydrogen and other battery technologies.

https://techzle.com/toyota-insuffici...%20he%20argues.

Toyota's Solid-state Batteries Will Offer A Range Of 745 Miles And Charge In Under 10 Minutes

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

To Toyota's credit, they have resisted EV's from the jump. They started the hybrid thing and are embracing it full stop. And they have publicly stated their dislike for EV's. Their EV is a total compliance car too.

So kudos for them to sticking to their guns.

Don't read too much into the Western media bias.

Toyota is letting other legacy brands lose billions manufacturing EV's, even with government subsidies.

Toyota has quietly been working behind the scenes on solid state battery tech. They hold the most patents in the space by a long shot. They will be ready to produce EV's when it is financially viable to turn a profit.

[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by XxThe_RemedyXx

When all ICE cars eventually go electric, what will we be talking about on these forums?

The old-time dangers of being 1.5 psi too low

***NSFW / graphic warning***

[Praetor_M3Competition]

Glad I bought an M3 Comp recently. It’s gonna stick with me forever (or as long as I can fill it up at the pump)… Taxed to death or not.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Ignorance of what? That it's more sensible to spend our resources building hybrid batteries for 10 vehicles and getting 50 MPG than it is 80-100 MPGE on one BEV? Ignorance of the fact that there's already consumer backlash over BEV's and BEV market share continues to creep along slowly, and only then increases when Tesla decides to drop their drawers?

• I think they’re slow to move… They can do whatever they want

Tesla has them beat in cost and that’s clear as day with only 4 cars being sold they’re absolutely killing it

The domino effect is well in play

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Ignorance of what? That it's more sensible to spend our resources building hybrid batteries for 10 vehicles and getting 50 MPG than it is 80-100 MPGE on one BEV? Ignorance of the fact that there's already consumer backlash over BEV's and BEV market share continues to creep along slowly, and only then increases when Tesla decides to drop their drawers?

Guess Toyota should be jealous of Ford, who lost $32,000 per EV sold in just Q2 of 2023. Ford expects to lose $4.5bill in 2023 on their EV division. Jim Farley has now stated they will be shifting production focus back to hybrids.

Toyota will be just fine. Focusing on their recent Tacoma, Prius, Land Cruiser launches is the correct move. Those are going to sell like crazy.

[christianb5s4]

Originally Posted by jmg

Toyota's Solid-state Batteries Will Offer A Range Of 745 Miles And Charge In Under 10 Minutes

Hence my comment about their focus on other battery technologies.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Guess Toyota should be jealous of Ford, who lost $32,000 per EV sold in just Q2 of 2023. Ford expects to lose $4.5bill in 2023 on their EV division. Jim Farley has now stated they will be shifting production focus back to hybrids.

Toyota will be just fine. Focusing on their recent Tacoma, Prius, Land Cruiser launches is the correct move. Those are going to sell like crazy.

Maybe if Ford didn’t try to do things the way they’ve always done things they would have better success

Hard to teach an old dog new tricks

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Quad motors and 100+kwh battery pack.

This will approach 5,000lbs or likely exceed it.

It is just more of the same, with where current battery tech is at the moment.

The weight penalty is fine as long as powering all four wheels.

Model 3's at 4000+ lbs are doing well against cars much lighter and most of them are on low to mid tier coilovers.

[.Tranceparent.]

“Heart of joy”
More engineering less marketing please…

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by .Tranceparent.

“Heart of joy”
More engineering less marketing please…

Rivian already sells this drivetrain setup, all be it in truck/suv form. Quad motor with ecu that controls suspension/stability/drivetrain. Nothing truly groundbreaking, it is exactly that...marketing.

[bmwdrive]

Thankfully we will all be able to contribute to saving the planet with the new M3. Instead of a dirty polluting ICE we will have the option of this wonderfully clean and eco-friendly EV. With four motors and a 1 megawatt battery, what could be cleaner? Is a 1 MW battery even possible or am I not understanding right?

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by bmwdrive

Thankfully we will all be able to contribute to saving the planet with the new M3. Instead of a dirty polluting ICE we will have the option of this wonderfully clean and eco-friendly EV. With four motors and a 1 megawatt battery, what could be cleaner? Is a 1 MW battery even possible or am I not understanding right?

1MW is the power output, not the battery size.