07-19-2020, 02:28 PM | #155 |
Lieutenant Colonel
2116
Rep 1,536
Posts |
I wasn't comparing an M340 RWD to an Altima since I ended up with it through no deliberate intent of my own. My point was to share how ludicrous it is to say the M340i is like a buick. We get it, the G20 is large, I know that and it did bother me initially a little since I don't like large cars.
This is the largest car I have owned but the size is not enough where I feel negatively about the car. There are many choices, the bargain basement Genesis , Lexus 3IS and Alfa etc are all smaller. Therefore, nobody is being coerced to buy the G20 and be miserable with its size. Another thing that many fail to realize is that there are many factors that define the driving characteristics of a car besides just size, slalom or steering feel. Transmission, suspension etc play far more vital roles. Many of the cars in this category fail in those aspects. For example, some may have a slightly better steering feel but that is negated by an inferior transmission to the G20, cue the Genesis 3.3T. Even some cars that utilizes the ZF feels nowhere as good as that of the G20, simply due to the tuning. Look, no car is perfect, they all come with compromises, (FWD hot hatches/saloons are not the answer). All one can do is pick what's best for his/her needs. I chose the M340i because of all it's direct competitors, it's the best all-rounder period IMHO.
__________________
Prior's: E36, E46 x2
|
Appreciate
2
Burrcold6368.50 darthfairfax4.50 |
07-19-2020, 03:57 PM | #156 | |
Major
573
Rep 1,069
Posts |
Quote:
G20 is the largest car i've driven too but oddly enough-it's fairly agile for its size. I've gotten used to the size so i'm willing to let that go now. For me, personally, steering reigns supreme (it's the one piece of hardware connecting you to the vehicle that you use literally every second you are in the vehicle driving) and i don't know why BMW neglects it while over engineering everything else to decimate the competition. I'm not just talking about "feel" here either. Obv. it's super numb, but the wheel is too big and fat, the ratio is too slow, and the EPS doesn't feel very linear to me, the inputs seem *too* variable to be consistent. It feels unnatural. Of course this is subjective and many others may have total opposite views here. I think the larger point is that while there is no perfect car, almost every car out there has vastly improved over the years. G20 is still the best all round luxury sports sedan but the gap has significantly narrowed. There are other cars out there that are better than the G20 in certain aspects, and that's OKAY. Was the drive train and chassis that much better than every other car I test drove for me to overlook the steering/size when i leased it last year? Probably. Will it be enough in 2022? Maybe, maybe not.
__________________
2019 G20 330i RWD
2014 F30 328i RWD 2009 E90 328i RWD 2006 E90 330i RWD 2002 E46 330i RWD |
|
Appreciate
1
stein_325i25294.00 |
07-20-2020, 08:00 AM | #157 |
Brigadier General
2571
Rep 3,971
Posts |
Here is an interesting article regarding BMW steering
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a1...steering-feel/
My favorite line - per BMW “There was a clear request for less steering effort. No one wants bad feedback—such as a steering wheel that vibrates in response to bumps in the road.” and heck, what do we know, BMW's sales have risen while they ran away from their slogan "The Ultimate Driving Machine"
__________________
2011 1M, Black loaded sans sat radio
2021 911 C4S Gentian Blue, manual 2023 X3 M40i - loaded sans Park Assist |
Appreciate
1
alpinewhite3572.50 |
07-20-2020, 10:45 AM | #158 | |
Ring Leader of G8X Haters
25294
Rep 8,764
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
1
mcjohnsonsg384.50 |
07-20-2020, 11:22 AM | #159 | |
Brigadier General
2571
Rep 3,971
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
2011 1M, Black loaded sans sat radio
2021 911 C4S Gentian Blue, manual 2023 X3 M40i - loaded sans Park Assist |
|
Appreciate
2
stein_325i25294.00 alpinewhite3572.50 |
07-20-2020, 11:24 AM | #160 | ||
Ring Leader of G8X Haters
25294
Rep 8,764
Posts |
Quote:
If someone in the 90's/00's heard that a Mazda or Merc has better steering feel than a BMW they would have never believed you. Strange times we live in! |
||
Appreciate
0
|
07-20-2020, 12:01 PM | #161 | |
Major
573
Rep 1,069
Posts |
Quote:
Def inexcusable for an M car but it doesn't even make sense for a cookier cutter 330i. Even a cookie cutter 330i is supposed to be the "ultimate driving machine" Not the ultimate all around commuting machine. If i wanted that i could have gotten into a Mazda 3 premium for half the price and had a great driving experience with a gorgeous interior in a nice sized package. A sport sedan is supposed to be a cut above the competition even in base form. And to be fair- it def is when it comes to drive train and chassis. But then where it counts, BMW sales& marketing dept steps in to kill the steering, attach garbage tires for ride comfort and fuel efficiency and handicap the vehicle to make it more marketable.
__________________
2019 G20 330i RWD
2014 F30 328i RWD 2009 E90 328i RWD 2006 E90 330i RWD 2002 E46 330i RWD |
|
Appreciate
1
stein_325i25294.00 |
07-20-2020, 12:08 PM | #162 | |
Major
573
Rep 1,069
Posts |
Quote:
Many people on here are going to be deeply offended and scoff at you for even writing that but to that i say - go out and test drive multiple cars and then come back and reasonably tell me why and how the g20 steering stands out. I had a Jaguar F pace rental for a week in Arizona and i was absolutely blown away by that steering. The feel, the directness, the weighting, ultra quick response to inputs was amazing. 4000 lb SUV but the steering allowed me react and miss a pot hole that was 10 feet in front of me. Of course, it was far from perfect in other aspects but i'm only talking about steering here. The G20 steering feels lazy. I try to miss a pot hole and i feel a tiny lag before the wheels respond. Am i being crazy here??
__________________
2019 G20 330i RWD
2014 F30 328i RWD 2009 E90 328i RWD 2006 E90 330i RWD 2002 E46 330i RWD Last edited by alpinewhite3; 07-20-2020 at 12:14 PM.. |
|
Appreciate
2
stein_325i25294.00 doug_9992570.50 |
07-20-2020, 04:54 PM | #163 |
New Member
5
Rep 6
Posts |
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-20-2020, 04:55 PM | #164 |
Colonel
749
Rep 2,046
Posts
Drives: '05 M3 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Swansea,MA
|
Ugh, so jealous. Mine hasn't even entered production yet. Been in "scheduled for production" for about a week now, if not longer. 😕
__________________
'05 BMW M3 6MT (Weekend car) Need to stock up on some detailing products or spiff up your garage, then use my Obsessed Garage link! |
Appreciate
0
|
07-20-2020, 05:24 PM | #165 | |
Captain
252
Rep 658
Posts |
Quote:
I've tracked a few bimmers (F30's / F82) and if the chassis / steering / brakes and engine wasn't up to the task of throwing me into a corner at 80+ mph then I'd either be dead or considering another car. That's where my opinion disconnects from others, a decent petrol RWD bimmer on m-sport suspension is well balanced and very competent in the handling department. I bet at track speeds that dual wishbone setup will dazzle and somewhat increase lap times but the transmission / engine of something like a 340i makes a somewhat small advantage superfluous. The main issue with BMW handling IMO is feeling, as in there is none. That doesn't make it any way less capable but it's not as fun to drive, if one seeks driving dynamics then the badge simply doesn't matter. Last edited by Firaxis; 07-20-2020 at 06:04 PM.. |
|
Appreciate
1
stein_325i25294.00 |
07-20-2020, 06:58 PM | #166 | |
New Member
5
Rep 6
Posts |
Quote:
Nuts...... that sucks! I ended up switching to an "in stock awaiting delivery" - albeit had to get my dealer to get it from a competing dealer...... and has a couple options I wasn't after..... but not gonna complain The new build I had ordered had no movement for 6weeks, then I found out they won't really be building anymore this year (for delivery to the UK) so my original order wouldn't be fulfilled until January or late Q1. No way was I going to wait that long (and rent a bloody car - had already traded in my GTi) Hope you get yours soon! |
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-27-2020, 03:47 PM | #167 | ||||
Lieutenant Colonel
1060
Rep 1,876
Posts |
Quote:
Glad to see the review was positive! I think they really hit a good spot with the practicality and the sportiness of the M340i.
__________________
Mine: BSM F30 335i M Sport
Hers: AW F30 328i M Sport |
||||
Appreciate
0
|
07-29-2020, 12:26 AM | #168 |
Lieutenant Colonel
3292
Rep 1,682
Posts |
To me, “enthusiast” is a fairly broad and flexible term that varies with one’s means to indulge their interest.
Some enthusiasts might have more money to buy a collection of every M car ever built than time to research the name of the engineer that designed a linkage that only lasted for one generation. Other enthusiasts might draw immense satisfaction from that process, learning the history and witnessing each iteration, taking pleasure in honing their eyes to spot subtle but telltale differences. Yet more people might only be able to show their appreciation from afar, lusting after a car they cannot have due to means or availability, but still loving the beauty and sound every time they see one. Trying to define whether someone is or isn’t a “true” enthusiast is merely gate keeping for petty and menial reasons. I’d like to think we’re better than that here. |
Appreciate
2
mcjohnsonsg384.50 530iDriver1710.50 |
07-29-2020, 11:15 AM | #169 |
Private First Class
153
Rep 135
Posts |
For those who've observed the relatively good (and perhaps superior) steering feel from other manufacturers -- Mazda and FCA among them -- let me throw out this theory.
Under hydraulic systems, BMW had mastered the best feel and feedback among steering systems. Some might argue with that, but probably not many on this forum. Now, going to electric boost systems, the playing field was reset and every manufacturer had to start from scratch. Unfortunately, BMW did not get off to a good start with the F30/F32. I'm in the market for a new G20 and, after having the test drive, I can understand why the sentiments about poor steering feedback are what they are. But let me say this -- BMW is improving, and it's not far off of the best systems. FCA has one of the best ones from my experience. I can't comment on Mazda since I haven't driven one. But the pecking order of good steering systems has been completely mixed up, and BMW has work to do. After recently having driven a Genesis and Audi, I can tell you that BMW is now better than both of those, IMO. Be patient. BMW will get better, but it's not bad now. |
Appreciate
1
alpinewhite3572.50 |
07-29-2020, 11:51 AM | #170 | |
Major
573
Rep 1,069
Posts |
Quote:
Unfortunately, as someone else commented, "feel" is probably gone for good as it is not easily transferable through an electric system, if at all. IMHO, for an electric steering system to feel "good" in modern cars-it has to be a couple of things now: A) naturally linear B) well weighted C) direct + precise D) have a quick ratio. BMW is hell bent on using super slow ratios which worked well with hydraulic setups but don't translate well at all when used in an electric boosted setup. Let me give you an example of a video i took while driving: https://streamable.com/ocwa4n Nobody on this forum can tell me with a straight face that this is fine steering behavior...it is absolutely unacceptable in a sports sedan. Nobody should be offended by calling out the steering, no matter how improved the G20 is. Too slow, too lazy-if i wanted to avoid a pothole right in front of me, i should be able to do with a flick of the wrist in a "sports sedan". It would be impossible with this zombie steering. BMW has ways to go. My rental Chevy cruze was more responsive than this.
__________________
2019 G20 330i RWD
2014 F30 328i RWD 2009 E90 328i RWD 2006 E90 330i RWD 2002 E46 330i RWD |
|
Appreciate
2
stein_325i25294.00 NorCalAthlete3291.50 |
07-30-2020, 01:18 PM | #171 | |
Lieutenant Colonel
3292
Rep 1,682
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-30-2020, 01:24 PM | #172 | |
.
1336
Rep 1,938
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
07-30-2020, 02:22 PM | #173 | ||
Major
916
Rep 1,165
Posts
Drives: 2020 M340i
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: St. Paul, MN
|
Quote:
This video appears to be a base 330 tho. I'm guessing the M340 will be slightly tighter and the new M3 will be even quicker ratios given the natural progression of these cars. But yes steering could absolutely be better and I think most would agree w that
__________________
2020 M340xi PB (sold)
2020 Ram 1500 Laramie (Daily) 2019 Shelby GT350R (Weekend) |
||
Appreciate
2
alpinewhite3572.50 stein_325i25294.00 |
07-30-2020, 02:31 PM | #174 |
Major
573
Rep 1,069
Posts |
To be honest- sport is even worse. It's artificially heavy and then super slow on top of it. If i tried that in sport the car would wobble.
__________________
2019 G20 330i RWD
2014 F30 328i RWD 2009 E90 328i RWD 2006 E90 330i RWD 2002 E46 330i RWD |
Appreciate
1
stein_325i25294.00 |
07-30-2020, 02:37 PM | #175 | ||
Ring Leader of G8X Haters
25294
Rep 8,764
Posts |
Quote:
|
||
Appreciate
0
|
07-30-2020, 02:41 PM | #176 | |
Major
573
Rep 1,069
Posts |
Quote:
The 330xi steering is even slower at 15.1:1. It must be...interesting. THat being said i do see the m340i gets a bit of a quicker set up at 13.6:1. Kind of curious from other 340i drivers how that feels? It's not night and day but its def a bit quicker. But then again the 340i also has the old F30 rack so i dont know. I'll have to test drive it. Curious what they will do with the new M3/M4. I understand that BMW refuses to budge on the ratios to cater to the German market for the autobahn...however, 99% of the rest of the world barely makes it above 80mph in daily driving.
__________________
2019 G20 330i RWD
2014 F30 328i RWD 2009 E90 328i RWD 2006 E90 330i RWD 2002 E46 330i RWD |
|
Appreciate
1
stein_325i25294.00 |
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|