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Technical Topics iDrive, Nav, Phone, Audio, Video, Cameras, Electronics Audiotec Fischer release an amp / harness for iDrive7

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      10-10-2023, 06:57 PM   #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Encanto View Post
Try this configuration:
Hi, saw your post, and seems like you're quite knowledgeable. I bought the Matchup 10 DSP for my G20 with HK setup. I'm a little confused as to how the channels are split up.

For HK equipped speakers, there's a tweeter and a speaker on each door, are the tweeters separated from the speakers? How do I set crossover if they are combined?
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      10-13-2023, 04:41 AM   #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamari View Post
Very very useful post for me as I am currently waiting for delivery of a G21 330d touring with Harman Kardon.

It seems that you positioned it well and secure.

What are the first impressions? How does it sound compared with HK?

Is the indicator clicker sound too loud? Engine sound (ASD) - Is that louder now?

Did you get the chance to play around with the configurations?
I spent this week figuring out how to set the thing up which is still a work in progress Keep in mind that I previously replaced the front door speakers by Audisons so my setup is not full HK.

Out of the box, the amplifier sounded much crisper, with almost no distortions on the maximum volume (apart from some tracks), and a much better center channel but yet not perfect.

As I had quite a number of possible configs (with center/no center, with L7 surround/no surround) I decided to configure myself with a measuring mic UMIK-1. It was a substantial time investment but much worth it.

I discovered that each speaker has its own flaws which are almost impossible to correct by "ear" and this is where the measurement mic helps a lot. I attach one screenshot of the measurements for the front door speakers and a final config of the equalizer for the front: no way you can smooth things out like this without measurements.

Secondly, the mic also helps with time adjustment: as the subs and speakers are somewhat obstructed by the car interieur the mic helps to set the timing better.

So far I managed to reach a very good sound stage without the central speaker with L7 activated.

But I'd prefer to activate the center as I like additional sound it sets just in front of you. The problem is that the L7 + center is not ideal yet: there are some distortions depending on tracks and the volume configuration. I'm trying to figure out if the problem comes from the L7 or the HK speaker.

To sum up: the amp is a huge improvement, but it stimulates you to go further down the rabbit hole. I won't be surprised if you would like to replace speakers and subs
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      10-13-2023, 04:58 AM   #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legendre View Post
To sum up: the amp is a huge improvement, but it stimulates you to go further down the rabbit hole. I won't be surprised if you would like to replace speakers and subs
Thank you for the detailed report. Very valuable info. Now you got me started to mentally prepare myself for the cost of MatchUp10 :-)

If I may ask: where did you buy the amp and the wiring harness?

Also, are you experiencing increased volume of indicator clicker and artificial engine sound (ASD)?
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      10-13-2023, 09:01 AM   #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamari View Post
Thank you for the detailed report. Very valuable info. Now you got me started to mentally prepare myself for the cost of MatchUp10 :-)

If I may ask: where did you buy the amp and the wiring harness?

Also, are you experiencing increased volume of indicator clicker and artificial engine sound (ASD)?
Hi,

Luckily, the central speaker issue came from the plastic cover vibration under high volume which was easy to fix.

I bought the apm and harness from the Ukrainian distributor of AF. You can contact them to see if they can ship to your location. You can also check the list of distributors on their site. And don't buy the MEC IN module as you don't really need it: it's better to build the center channel directly in the amp rather than clean up the original center.

There is no problem with the indicator sound and no car engine noise. I do not think that my car has the ASD - possibly only M engine versions like M340 have it. If your car is equipped with ASD, you can buy a bypass harness from Audison, ESX, or any other brand. (https://nl.audison.eu/products/ap-h-asd-bypass/)

Good luck!
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      10-13-2023, 11:34 AM   #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
The PP86DSP installation manual explicitly states that the amp 12V terminal must be connected to the battery.
I’m aware of that. I plan on connecting to the battery with a 50amp fuse like the manual suggests. I’m just wondering what to do with the power and ground wires from the harness I got from 73mustangconv on eBay. Normally they would supply the oem amp. Do I just cap them and ignore them?

The bimmertech pp86dsp must have some internal modifications to be able to supply power via the harness like the oem amp. My understanding is the only difference between the pp86dsp and bimmertech pp86dsp, was that bimmertech provided a harness for plug n play.
I find this odd because I’ve read that the OEM harness only supplies 20amps. The pp86dsp requires more than this for power spikes, hence the requirement to directly get power from the battery.

I wouldn’t think any modification to pp86dsp that bimmertech made would resolve that issue. I did see that the pp86dsp is low amperage but requires 40-50amp fuse for brief spikes.
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      10-13-2023, 01:11 PM   #358
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That is not a “Technic” harness if you got it from eBay.

Ask your seller.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshooter View Post
I’m aware of that. I plan on connecting to the battery with a 50amp fuse like the manual suggests. I’m just wondering what to do with the power and ground wires from the harness I got from 73mustangconv on eBay. Normally they would supply the oem amp. Do I just cap them and ignore them?

The bimmertech pp86dsp must have some internal modifications to be able to supply power via the harness like the oem amp. My understanding is the only difference between the pp86dsp and bimmertech pp86dsp, was that bimmertech provided a harness for plug n play.
I find this odd because I’ve read that the OEM harness only supplies 20amps. The pp86dsp requires more than this for power spikes, hence the requirement to directly get power from the battery.

I wouldn’t think any modification to pp86dsp that bimmertech made would resolve that issue. I did see that the pp86dsp is low amperage but requires 40-50amp fuse for brief spikes.
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      10-13-2023, 05:45 PM   #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
That is not a “Technic” harness if you got it from eBay.

Ask your seller.
I’m now aware it’s a knock off “technic” harness. I posted here on bimmerpost and 3 other forums trying to understand if that was your username on eBay. Couldn’t get an answer.

Since multiple threads here directed me to that eBay listing for the “technic” harness, I went and bought it. A week later, I learned about your website.

Anyways the seller is useless. I ask a question and he either doesn’t respond, provided an answer to a question that wasn’t asked, or is extremely short.

I guess I will have to figure that out on my own.

Let me ask you this question then. Does the oem harness provide high level or low level input? My NON bimmertech pp86dsp accepts high level inputs just like the UP7. I was planning on cutting off the rca plugs on the knock off harness I bought and splicing into the input harness that came with the amp. The seller just got me so confused about high vs low level, I’m second guessing myself now.

Sorry for the questions. I’ve spent countless hours reading and can’t find these answers
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      10-14-2023, 11:36 AM   #360
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BimmerTech can sell you a PnP harness for the PP86DSP and F3x HiFi system, and it will use the OEM amp 12v/ground to power the DSP - full PnP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshooter View Post
I’m now aware it’s a knock off “technic” harness. I posted here on bimmerpost and 3 other forums trying to understand if that was your username on eBay. Couldn’t get an answer.

Since multiple threads here directed me to that eBay listing for the “technic” harness, I went and bought it. A week later, I learned about your website.

Anyways the seller is useless. I ask a question and he either doesn’t respond, provided an answer to a question that wasn’t asked, or is extremely short.

I guess I will have to figure that out on my own.

Let me ask you this question then. Does the oem harness provide high level or low level input? My NON bimmertech pp86dsp accepts high level inputs just like the UP7. I was planning on cutting off the rca plugs on the knock off harness I bought and splicing into the input harness that came with the amp. The seller just got me so confused about high vs low level, I’m second guessing myself now.

Sorry for the questions. I’ve spent countless hours reading and can’t find these answers
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      10-15-2023, 10:52 AM   #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
BimmerTech can sell you a PnP harness for the PP86DSP and F3x HiFi system, and it will use the OEM amp 12v/ground to power the DSP - full PnP.
Now I’m even more confused. So the regular/non-bimmertech PP86DSP CAN be powered via system connector. In your prior reply, you said it couldn’t be powered via system connector, which is what the manual states as well.

I have 12v and ground pins + wires on my harness but wasn’t planning on connecting them bc of what manual says and what you said in your last post. Now it sounds like I can connect them and don’t need 12v direct from battery? Can I just connect these and source power from harness? Seems like it would be the equivalent of the bimmertech harness.

Anyways that’s the least of my worries.

I’ve read that OEM HU sends low level balanced signal at 5v. The PP86DSP accepts high level input 5v-11v. It seems that since signal is 5v, I can just cutoff RCAs. I’ve been out of the car audio loop for the past 20 years. This is where I’m stuck..
  • Do I simply cut off the RCAs and connect to system connector inout?
  • Do you cut off RCAs and connect to the 4 pin high level input connector that came with the amp?
  • Or do I need a LOC? Harness RCAs into LOC —> LOC output wires spliced into input wires of system connector harness.

I attached 2 pics. One is of my amp and PP ISO2 harness and connectors that came with it. The other is of a partially connected harness I’m trying to make. I don’t have subs yet so those are off to the side. Also seems like center out will be capped too. The RCAs are confusing me bc as you can see I don’t have RCA input on my amp.
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      10-15-2023, 01:57 PM   #362
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The BimmerTech harness is designed to power the PP86DSP directly as this was their amp, not the harness that you got.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshooter View Post
Now I’m even more confused. So the regular/non-bimmertech PP86DSP CAN be powered via system connector. In your prior reply, you said it couldn’t be powered via system connector, which is what the manual states as well.

I have 12v and ground pins + wires on my harness but wasn’t planning on connecting them bc of what manual says and what you said in your last post. Now it sounds like I can connect them and don’t need 12v direct from battery? Can I just connect these and source power from harness? Seems like it would be the equivalent of the bimmertech harness.

Anyways that’s the least of my worries.

I’ve read that OEM HU sends low level balanced signal at 5v. The PP86DSP accepts high level input 5v-11v. It seems that since signal is 5v, I can just cutoff RCAs. I’ve been out of the car audio loop for the past 20 years. This is where I’m stuck..
  • Do I simply cut off the RCAs and connect to system connector inout?
  • Do you cut off RCAs and connect to the 4 pin high level input connector that came with the amp?
  • Or do I need a LOC? Harness RCAs into LOC —> LOC output wires spliced into input wires of system connector harness.

I attached 2 pics. One is of my amp and PP ISO2 harness and connectors that came with it. The other is of a partially connected harness I’m trying to make. I don’t have subs yet so those are off to the side. Also seems like center out will be capped too. The RCAs are confusing me bc as you can see I don’t have RCA input on my amp.
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      10-15-2023, 05:11 PM   #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
The BimmerTech harness is designed to power the PP86DSP directly as this was their amp, not the harness that you got.
Is there a physical difference between the PP86DSP and bimmertechs? Or is it simply my amp repackaged with their special harness?

Why can’t your technic harness (not the one I bought) power the amp like bimmertechs?

I would have bought the harness from you. That’s what I was trying to do. Hence why I asked if you if you were 73mustangconv on eBay before buying.
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      10-15-2023, 05:14 PM   #364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
The BimmerTech harness is designed to power the PP86DSP directly as this was their amp, not the harness that you got.
Can I just buy your harness and get full plug n play?
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      10-16-2023, 04:28 AM   #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legendre View Post
Hi,

Luckily, the central speaker issue came from the plastic cover vibration under high volume which was easy to fix.
Oh yeah. That's a standard thing on all G20's. It's well documented on this forum and is fixed easily with a few pieces of felt tape.

Quote:
Originally Posted by legendre View Post
I bought the apm and harness from the Ukrainian distributor of AF. You can contact them to see if they can ship to your location. You can also check the list of distributors on their site. And don't buy the MEC IN module as you don't really need it: it's better to build the center channel directly in the amp rather than clean up the original center.
That's a useful info. If I recall correctly I also mixed the center channel in Matchup7 amp on my G20 internally and completely ignored the center channel input from the headunit for the same reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by legendre View Post
There is no problem with the indicator sound and no car engine noise. I do not think that my car has the ASD - possibly only M engine versions like M340 have it. If your car is equipped with ASD, you can buy a bypass harness from Audison, ESX, or any other brand. (https://nl.audison.eu/products/ap-h-asd-bypass/)
Good luck!
My G21 will come with M sport pack, so ASD is going to be there. Good to know that there is the option to disable it if it's a problem.

A little offtopic: How are you happy with your 330xd? I'm having a G21 330d MHEV on order right not. Decided to go with the only non M 6 cylinder option in the lineup exactly cause it feels like a major upgrade compared to all 4-cylinder engines. And I also felt like the big diesel works good in a touring. Better than 330i which needs to rev more.
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      10-17-2023, 09:43 AM   #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamari View Post
A little offtopic: How are you happy with your 330xd? I'm having a G21 330d MHEV on order right not. Decided to go with the only non M 6 cylinder option in the lineup exactly cause it feels like a major upgrade compared to all 4-cylinder engines. And I also felt like the big diesel works good in a touring. Better than 330i which needs to rev more.
Congratulations! 330xd MHEV is a great choice. I was hesitant between 320 and 330, and glad that I finally went with 330xd: the engine has plenty of power and huge torque. Thanks to the hybridization your model will even have more power. By no means it's a racing car, but good enough for overtakes and you can easily cruise on the highway at 160+ km/h. Fuel consumption is also great ~ 5.5L/100km at 130km/h.
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      10-17-2023, 10:11 AM   #367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legendre View Post
Congratulations! 330xd MHEV is a great choice. I was hesitant between 320 and 330, and glad that I finally went with 330xd: the engine has plenty of power and huge torque. Thanks to the hybridization your model will even have more power. By no means it's a racing car, but good enough for overtakes and you can easily cruise on the highway at 160+ km/h. Fuel consumption is also great ~ 5.5L/100km at 130km/h.
Thanks.

Yeah. It's far too heavy and too isolated to provide a "sport's car" experience. But at the same time it's dynamic and well balanced. And with this 6cylinder the whole car moves in an effortless manner (due to the huge torque) while being very efficient at the same time, which is remarkable for a 1850kg touring.
In the end of the day, all I need is a comfortable overtaking and a bit of fun when I'm alone in the car and the stars align properly :-)
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      11-24-2023, 10:04 AM   #368
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This is by far the best thread for Match Up DSPs I have found anywhere. The manufacturers are useless in providing useful profiles. I own a 2022 G29 (Z4) which is 676 RAM equipped. I bought the 8DSP and harness and installed them, with DSP wired to the battery. No problems there. Getting the sound right is the problem, as well as minimizing the damn ASD. I coded it off with Bimmercode and before the 8DSP, it seemed to be gone. Added the 8DSP, and it now can still be heard, just louder when coded On. So I had to reduce gains to minimize (but never eliminate) the ASD.

BUT here, I’m reading about how some have the same issue but others do not. Anyone have a handle on what is needed to kill that crap?

Also, this thread was the first place I have seen where using Aux R/L as inputs to the channels can be used as full frequency inputs!! I haven’t tried it yet, but does anyone know if the same is true for RAM equipped systems? I see where encanto mentioned that no RAM inputs arw full frequency. But then whybare there AUX inputs then? If they are full frequency then why wouldn’t everyone just use AUX for the inputs to everything instead of Front R/L?

The amp makes the OE HIFI speakers quite bearable, especially the “subs” which in the Z4 are directly behind the seats so they have more impact than the under seat locations, which I have/had in my current 2019 X3 and Minis in the past. I have to go through the thread again, but I am looking for a successful profile from a G20 with base US HIFI, that I can modify with the correct distances and arrangements. ANY help is greatly appreciated!!
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      11-27-2023, 01:37 PM   #369
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Well, I just realized that I had not been coding ASD off, like I thougjt I was. I assumed I just had to make ASD “Not Active”. But that is wrong, that just really tells you that there IS ASD in the RAM. you don’t code anything to turn it off, you simply scroll/ look at the very bottom of the RAM page to where it says “Activation codes”, then press that and then press ASD to turn it off! Problem solved.

I also found some free RTA apps for my iphone that helped me greatly in smoothing out the frequency response so it is all good now!!

I also found that AUX as an input kills any bass if used in place of the regular channels, especially the subwoofer. Just use wubwoofer L or R for them and adjust gain as desired. There was no combination I could find in the 8DSP with a RAM equipped car, where AUX as an input improved the sound.
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      11-28-2023, 05:14 AM   #370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perryinva View Post
Well, I just realized that I had not been coding ASD off, like I thougjt I was. I assumed I just had to make ASD “Not Active”. But that is wrong, that just really tells you that there IS ASD in the RAM. you don’t code anything to turn it off, you simply scroll/ look at the very bottom of the RAM page to where it says “Activation codes”, then press that and then press ASD to turn it off! Problem solved.
What are you using for coding? Bimmercode, Carly, or something else?

Is your indicator now louder with the Match 8DSP AMP running all audio channels?

Last edited by Calamari; 11-28-2023 at 05:32 AM..
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      11-28-2023, 04:03 PM   #371
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I use Bimmercode, and Bimmerlink. Turn signal is definitely louder than it was, but not really loud compared to many other cars, so I find it acceptable. I actually had to turn the gain down on all channels, as max volume would distort the oem speakers I left installed. The master gain for each channel is what determines the loudness of all the “vehicle generated sounds”. I had to turn all alerts (parking, pedestrian etc) to minimum in iDrive and also use Bimmercode to turn off the seatbelt warning completely. If you upgraded your speakers to better, but less efficient ones, you will have to turn the gain up, which may increase the volume level of those things.

Why BMW drives us crazy with stupid things like alerts, seatbelts, signals, ASD etc piped through the stereo with no way to tailor them all in iDrive from off to what ever level (who would EVER want them loud, which they can become even with no added amp like the 8DSP) is just plain horrible engineering.

So now I have to remember to always have by BT OBDII adapter in the car whenever it goes in for service in case they reload any software that might reset the modules!
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      11-28-2023, 10:59 PM   #372
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I was pretty happy to find out that my LCI has an ‘iconic sounds’ button to turn off ASD. The others notifications I tamed with proper gain values as you all mentioned. Glad I found this thread…thank you!!
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      11-28-2023, 11:28 PM   #373
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Really!!!! That is great. I wonder if the latest iDrive updates give the same feature?!? My 2022 is like 8 months pre-LCI.
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